Florida, Florida, Florida

[ChicosBailBonds]

C'mon Chicos. You're better than that.
I said I think the verdict was the correct one. In order to acquit, the jury had to find Zimmerman acted out of a reasonable fear for his life. Obviously if I think that, then I also obviously think Martin also was culpable in  his death in that his actions were the cause of Zimmerman's fear for his life.
It shouldn't be that complicated for you.
If you want me to further condemn a dead kid, you're going to be disappointed.

Why focus on Martin's actions as ULTIMATELY leading to his death? Martin doesn't take any action if Zimmerman isn't stalking him. Don't stalk and confront a kid who's walking home from the store and minding his own business and maybe you don't get punched.

Stalk....sorry, that's not what he was doing.  Stalking is a legal term that does not hold true here, it is used as inflammatory language by those pushing that story.  He was following him, he was not stalking him.

Why focus on Martin's actions....because his actions of assaulting someone led to his death.  If he doesn't attack Zimmerman, he's still alive.  How can you ignore Martin's actions?

[Benny B]

I'd say that's an incredible and self-serving story, Mr. Zimmerman.

Evading my question isn't helping your argument... unless your answer would unequivocally help mine.

[forgetful]

Whoa whoa whoa....you following the NBC edited transcripts here?  LOL.  I hope he sues them to kingdom come on that one.

The sworn testimony shows TM on top and each side said the person screaming out was by a different person.  Experts said it was impossible to tell who was screaming out.  The forensic expert said MARTIN was on top of GZ.  The witnesses said TM on top of GZ.  Where are you seeing GZ on top of TM?

http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/07/09/forensic-pathologist-says-trayvon-martin-was-on-top-of-zimmerman

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592866-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-was-on-top-of-zimmerman-when-teen-was-shot-gunshot-wound-expert-testifies/

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/06/28/prosecution-witness-in-zimmerman-trial-testifies-martin-on-top-in-fight/

Selma Mora, another witness testified under Oath that GZ was on top.  That was my reference to ignoring reports.  I'm well aware others reported TM was on top, which is why there are no facts to the actual fight.

Given the where GZ had the gun, however, the two plausible ways he could have accessed the weapon were to have either had it drawn before the altercation or to have been on top.  Of course since there were no witnesses at the time of the gunshot, we will never know.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Selma Mora, another witness testified under Oath that GZ was on top.  That was my reference to ignoring reports.  I'm well aware others reported TM was on top, which is why there are no facts to the actual fight.

Given the where GZ had the gun, however, the two plausible ways he could have accessed the weapon were to have either had it drawn before the altercation or to have been on top.  Of course since there were no witnesses at the time of the gunshot, we will never know.

Don't you think it would have been important to state that two witnesses, including an expert said TM was on top?  They were also under Oath. 

Selma Mora also didn't see the fight, but Mr. Goode did see Martin on top in a pound and ground stance.  Mora said AFTER she heard the shot she looked out her window and saw GZ on top of TM.  Was he checking to see if he was alive?  How hurt he was?  Who knows, but that was post gunshot.  By the way, you don't get the back of your skull bashed in without being on the bottom for at least some portion of time, which matches Goode and the forensic expert's testimony.

[Benny B]

Given the where GZ had the gun, however, the two plausible ways he could have accessed the weapon were to have either had it drawn before the altercation or to have been on top.

Funny... that's not what the forensic analyst said.  But never mind who should be considered the expert on such matters... Al Sharpton said it, so it must be true.

[forgetful]

Funny... that's not what the forensic analyst said.  But never mind who should be considered the expert on such matters... Al Sharpton said it, so it must be true.

Put that gun in the same holster in your back pants.  Have a 170 lbs on your chest and see if you can pull that gun out.  If you can, honestly ask yourself if you could have done that while someone is pounding your head against the concrete.

And Chicos, Selma reported that prior to the gunshot Zimmerman was on top in a "rider position".  And the expert reported that TM was "likely" on top, based on how far his clothing was from his body.  He admitted that other possibilities existed, including TM trying to pull away from GZ...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Put that gun in the same holster in your back pants.  Have a 170 lbs on your chest and see if you can pull that gun out.  If you can, honestly ask yourself if you could have done that while someone is pounding your head against the concrete.

And Chicos, Selma reported that prior to the gunshot Zimmerman was on top in a "rider position".  And the expert reported that TM was "likely" on top, based on how far his clothing was from his body.  He admitted that other possibilities existed, including TM trying to pull away from GZ...

Sure about that?

http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/people/witnesses/witness-16-files-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/

"She heard a kid crying (she sounds it out), and then she heard a shot, but was thinking maybe it was some kids playing. She went out to the porch. She saw a guy laying on the ground and could see another guy on top of him. She asked “what’s going on?” no answer, “what’s wrong with you, what’s going on?” The guy on top looked at her, and finally said “Call the police.” At that moment her roommate (Witness #5, Mary Cutcher) came back and told her to come inside. "

[MerrittsMustache]

Put that gun in the same holster in your back pants.  Have a 170 lbs on your chest and see if you can pull that gun out.  If you can, honestly ask yourself if you could have done that while someone is pounding your head against the concrete.

And Chicos, Selma reported that prior to the gunshot Zimmerman was on top in a "rider position".  And the expert reported that TM was "likely" on top, based on how far his clothing was from his body.  He admitted that other possibilities existed, including TM trying to pull away from GZ...

Let me get this straight...

You believe that George Zimmerman called the police to report a suspicious person in his neighborhood then proceeded to attack that person, pin him to the ground and shoot him in the chest all while knowing that the police would be arriving any minute. That's what you think happened?

[Spotcheck Billy]

What Martin had was not actually tea but a Watermelon Juice Cocktail - something often used to make the Drank when used with Skittles and mixed with OTC cough syrup - of course that has no relation to their confrontation

A kid drinking a soda/tea and eating skittles looks quite approachable.  A reasonable person would ask if he lives around here.  

A "crazy-ass cracker" with a hand on a gun...yeah no one will ask that person what they are doing.  They would run (which TM did) and hope they can get away (he didn't).

I've read the dispatch report.  GZ acted rashly ignored the advice of authorities and killed a kid.  Those are the only facts of this case.

Now is he legally culpable, I don't know as I'm not an expert in Florida law.  Is he morally responsible, absolutely.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What Martin had was not actually tea but a Watermelon Juice Cocktail - something often used to make the Drank when used with Skittles and mixed with OTC cough syrup

The video I posted earlier gets into this quite a bit.  He was making purple drank and a few other things.  Even posted such on his Facebook page.  Important because the side effects are irritability, panic, etc.

[StillAWarrior]

A kid drinking a soda/tea and eating skittles looks quite approachable.

I'm not really sure it matters, but he wasn't drinking or eating anything.  Both products were unopened.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm not really sure it matters, but he wasn't drinking or eating anything.  Both products were unopened.

It supports the notion that he didn't just have those products to innocently satisfy his sweet tooth.

[lab_warrior]

Or it supports the notion that he didn't open them.

Of course every African American walking around with soda and candy is using it for purple drank, just like every white person with the sniffles buys Sudafed for cooking meth.

[MerrittsMustache]

Or it supports the notion that he didn't open them.

Of course every African American walking around with soda and candy is using it for purple drank, just like every white person with the sniffles buys Sudafed for cooking meth.

Considering he made several posts on Facebook about making Lean/Purple Drank and Skittles and fruit juice cocktail are often used to do so, it's not unreasonable (or racist) to believe that's what he may have been up to.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Listen -- 49 states and the Supreme Court say that citizens have the right to carry a firearm for safety.  I'm not saying it's the most responsible thing to do, and I'm certainly not implying that everyone should carry a gun.  But if a law-abiding citizen reasonably believes that he/she is safer with a gun, then I have no problem with that.

I wholeheartedly agree that people shouldn't carry guns "just in case" someone commits a crime... but George Zimmerman was carrying a gun for his own protection.  If you don't agree with that concept, that is certainly your right, but the reality is that those laws are not going to change.

You asked me if I thought the captain of a neighborhood watch should carry a gun.

No, I don't think they need it.

Neighborhood watch is about crime prevention, and I don't think we need to issue handguns for that.

Wear some sort of florescent uniform, carry big flashlights, a phone, work in pairs, etc. The point is to make potential criminals KNOW you are around, and you are watching.

[Pakuni]

Considering he made several posts on Facebook about making Lean/Purple Drank and Skittles and fruit juice cocktail are often used to do so, it's not unreasonable (or racist) to believe that's what he was up to.

Not racist. Retarded.

Hey George Zimmerman had a loaded gun and, when speaking of TM, said "these a-holes always get away with it."
It's not unreasonable, then, to believe was out to kill someone that night.

[Pakuni]

The video I posted earlier gets into this quite a bit.  He was making purple drank and a few other things.  Even posted such on his Facebook page.  Important because the side effects are irritability, panic, etc.

Source?
Also, toxicology showed no evidence of codeine in TM's system ... so you're pretty much making stuff up. A recurring theme among some in this thread.

[Pakuni]

You asked me if I thought the captain of a neighborhood watch should carry a gun.

No, I don't think they need it.

Neighborhood watch is about crime prevention, and I don't think we need to issue handguns for that.

Wear some sort of florescent uniform, carry big flashlights, a phone, work in pairs, etc. The point is to make potential criminals KNOW you are around, and you are watching.

Experts: Neighborhood watches shouldn't be armed

(AP) ALLENTOWN, Pa. - Neighborhood watch groups were designed to be the eyes and ears of police — passively observing what they see and reporting back to law enforcement — not to enforce the law themselves.

Most neighborhood watches follow the rules, and confrontations are rare. But after the killing of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin in a Florida gated community, criminal justice experts say police departments and watch groups need to make sure volunteers do not take matters into their own hands.

"First thing: You do not engage. Once you see anything, a suspicious activity, you call the number that the police department has given you," said Chris Tutko, director of the Neighborhood Watch program at the National Sheriffs' Association, which launched the neighborhood watch concept 40 years ago as a response to rising crime.

Tutko said it's highly unusual, and highly discouraged, for a neighborhood watch to be armed.

"You do not carry a weapon during neighborhood watch," he said flatly. "If you carry a weapon, you're going to pull it."

Tens of thousands of watches have been formed across the United States over the decades. Some patrol gritty urban neighborhoods where volunteers walk a beat; others monitor sparsely populated areas with houses that are miles apart.

Regardless of location, the message from law enforcement is always the same: Do not intervene. Do not try to be a hero. Leave the crime-fighting to the police.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57402412/experts-neighborhood-watches-shouldnt-be-armed/

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Why?

To have a conceal permit, you have to be trained. That's a requirement I believe in every state.  We can argue about the level of training, but there is some.   As a Florida citizen, he has every right to carry that weapon.  I have yet to see one study that shows in C&C jurisdictions that crime increases or discharge of guns is somehow elevated as a result.  Maybe it is out there, but I would love to read it if so. 

Cops train, retrain and re-certify to stay on duty. They have a lot of hours invested in techniques, both physical and mental. This includes the use the deadly force and ultimately a firearm... and even they aren't perfect.

I don't like citizens following and ultimately engaging with "suspects" at all, and I ESPECIALLY don't like it with a firearm. They don't have the training for such situation. It's a bad idea.

[MerrittsMustache]

Not racist. Retarded.

Hey George Zimmerman had a loaded gun and, when speaking of TM, said "these a-holes always get away with it."
It's not unreasonable, then, to believe was out to kill someone that night.

How is it retarded? Martin wrote on Facebook about making a concoction used to get high that often involved using fruit juice cocktail and Skittles. That night, he went to the store and bought fruit juice cocktail and Skittles. Maybe it was just an unfortunate coincidence but it still helps to support the notion that he was going to make Lean.

That is an unreasonable assumption. If he was out to kill someone that night, why did he call the cops and let them know where he was and ask that they call him when they arrive so he could meet them in a specific place?

[Pakuni]

How is it retarded? Martin wrote on Facebook about making a concoction used to get high that often involved using fruit juice cocktail and Skittles. That night, he went to the store and bought fruit juice cocktail and Skittles. Maybe it was just an unfortunate coincidence but it still helps to support the notion that he was going to make Lean.

That is an unreasonable assumption. If he was out to kill someone that night, why did he call the cops and let them know where he was and ask that they call him when they arrive so he could meet them in a specific place?

1. What's your source on the Facebook posting?
2. What's the relevance? We already know from the toxicology report he wasn't under the influence of any codeine-derived drug when he was killed, so why does it matter? Are you suggesting shooting him was more justified because he possessed Skittles? I suspect not. Rather, I suspect you're smearing the kid.

My Zimmerman example, as (intentionally) preposterous as it is, is no less unreasonable than your Skittles theory.

[Eldon]

EVEN IF he were out to make drank, who cares?!?  I honestly don't see how that has to do with anything. 

Does it make him not as innocent as that 6th grade picture that they have of him in the AP all the time?  Sure, but has no bearing on the facts of the case or what happened that night.

It seems like a lot of you guys are letting your frustration with the liberal media manifest itself as character attacks on Martin, which only leads to red herrings and idle chatter.

[forgetful]

Let me get this straight...

You believe that George Zimmerman called the police to report a suspicious person in his neighborhood then proceeded to attack that person, pin him to the ground and shoot him in the chest all while knowing that the police would be arriving any minute. That's what you think happened?

No, I think GZ tried to physically detain TM (citizens arrest style).  This is consistent with his GF's story.  A fight broke out, likely rolling around in the grass, hence multiple different accounts of who was on top.  GZ gained the upper hand, pulled his gun out and shot trayvon in the chest.

This is fully consistent with the reports and reconciles issues in GZs testimony.

[StillAWarrior]

No, I think GZ tried to physically detain TM (citizens arrest style).  This is consistent with his GF's story.  A fight broke out, likely rolling around in the grass, hence multiple different accounts of who was on top.  GZ gained the upper hand, pulled his gun out and shot trayvon in the chest.

This is fully consistent with the reports and reconciles issues in GZs testimony.

This is not, however, fully consistent with the evidence.  The only evidence I'm aware of that GZ was on top is after the shot was fired.  Only one witness said that.  Others said TM was on top, and the forensic evidence supported that witness testimony.  I'm not aware of any evidence at all that GZ tried to detain TM.  If you're aware of that, I'd be interested to hear who said that.  Also, you keep suggesting (I think) that GZ had his gun in his waistband on the back.  I'm not disputing this, but my understanding was that it was in the waistband on the side.  Am I wrong on that?

[real chili 83]

Drank?  Never heard of it before.  Guess I don't get out much.

Is it kinda like wapatooli?