Florida, Florida, Florida

[Benny B]

If you are carrying a firearm on neighborhood watch, you are doing it wrong.

Carry a flashlight. Wear bright colors. Carry a phone. Make yourself known, so the bad guys know you are around. Neighborhood watch is about presence and prevention. It's not about following or engagement.

So, the short answer is, no, I don't think Zimmerman needed to carry a firearm for his safety.

As far as your last statement, I don't really know what to say about that. I don't care about media, race, gender, conservative, liberal, etc.

Bottom line for me:
I don't like citizens carrying firearms and following other citizens around just in case that person MIGHT commit a crime. Regular people aren't trained for it, and a lot of bad things can happen. 

Listen -- 49 states and the Supreme Court say that citizens have the right to carry a firearm for safety.  I'm not saying it's the most responsible thing to do, and I'm certainly not implying that everyone should carry a gun.  But if a law-abiding citizen reasonably believes that he/she is safer with a gun, then I have no problem with that.

I wholeheartedly agree that people shouldn't carry guns "just in case" someone commits a crime... but George Zimmerman was carrying a gun for his own protection.  If you don't agree with that concept, that is certainly your right, but the reality is that those laws are not going to change.

[Benny B]

Yep, cause the completely reasonable and rational response to being punched is to open fire.

What would be the completely reasonable and rational response to someone punching you and telling you "you're going to die tonight, m-fer" as they try to grab your gun?

[Pakuni]

What would be the completely reasonable and rational response to someone punching you and telling you "you're going to die tonight, m-fer" as they try to grab your gun?

I'd say that's an incredible and self-serving story, Mr. Zimmerman.

[Lennys Tap]

Well Lab Warrior, the 6 women on the jury didn't agree with your analysis that some racist, rednecked, "white Hispanic" pursued, confronted and murdered in cold blood an innocent kid for the sport of it. Of course, those women are probably all dimmed witted racists too. We need some brilliant guy like yourself with a monster IQ to lead a lynch mob over to GZ's place and right this wrong. That would be TOTES KEWL.

[lab_warrior]

What would be the completely reasonable and rational response to someone punching you and telling you "you're going to die tonight, m-fer" as they try to grab your gun?

That's called "hearsay," especially since the person "alleged" to have said it is dead,
and the person who claimed he said it isn't.  

Also, what would be the reasonable and rational response to some fat, slovenly toadie
following you around after purchasing iced tea and skittles?

[lab_warrior]

Well Lab Warrior, the 6 women on the jury didn't agree with your analysis that some racist, rednecked, "white Hispanic" pursued, confronted and murdered in cold blood an innocent kid for the sport of it. Of course, those women are probably all dimmed witted racists too. We need some brilliant guy like yourself with a monster IQ to lead a lynch mob over to GZ's place and right this wrong. That would be TOTES KEWL.

You're correct, I mischaracterized.  There were FIVE "dimmed" witted racists,
and one shrewd operator working on her book deal, and ringing Anderson Cooper
to schedule her post verdict interview.  Gotta cash in on that dead kid.  CHA CHING.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If you are carrying a firearm on neighborhood watch, you are doing it wrong.

Why?

To have a conceal permit, you have to be trained. That's a requirement I believe in every state.  We can argue about the level of training, but there is some.   As a Florida citizen, he has every right to carry that weapon.  I have yet to see one study that shows in C&C jurisdictions that crime increases or discharge of guns is somehow elevated as a result.  Maybe it is out there, but I would love to read it if so. 

[Pakuni]

Well Lab Warrior, the 6 women on the jury didn't agree with your analysis that some racist, rednecked, "white Hispanic" pursued, confronted and murdered in cold blood an innocent kid for the sport of it. Of course, those women are probably all dimmed witted racists too. We need some brilliant guy like yourself with a monster IQ to lead a lynch mob over to GZ's place and right this wrong. That would be TOTES KEWL.

I know lab can defend himself, but I'm pretty sure he said exactly none of those things.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Young black male committed crime, therefore every young black male should be treated with suspicion? Ummm ... that's the very definition of profiling.

Just common sense? Here's what's common sense .... not confronting someone you suspect is a dangerous criminal who's walking away from you, especially after the police have told you not to confront the suspected dangerous criminal who's walking away from you.
The verdict was correct under the law, but it doesn't make George Zimmerman any less of an idiot who unnecessarily caused another person's death.

Yup, its profiling and it's also common sense.  When a terrorist bomb goes off in the US, would you start with women, grandmas, Boy Scouts, Quakers, or someone from a certain religious persuasion?   Of course there is profiling, it's called common sense.  Pretty simple. 

I agree that Zimmerman is partly at fault.  What's also of common sense is not to attack someone, punch him to the point of breaking his nose, slam his head into the concrete and then be stunned that he has something to get you to stop it.  Two wrongs.  If GZ doesn't follow, probably nothing happens.  If TM doesn't attack GZ, probably nothing happens.  Both made choices.....unfortunately it tragically ended for one of them and for the other he has been viciously accused of racism, undergoing death threats, etc, etc. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yep, cause the completely reasonable and rational response to being punched is to open fire.

Punched, head slammed into concrete repeatedly, 40 seconds long (at least) confrontation.

He didn't get punched, and then shoot.  You're not accurately portraying what happened per the witnesses, including TM's girlfriend, per the recording, per Mr. Goode, etc, etc.   

Why do so many people make it sound like he just opened up and shot this guy.  He didn't.  Let's also remember that GZ called the cops...hardly something someone would do if they had the intent to kill someone that night.  He also gave 6 voluntary statements to police...again, not the actions of someone that was on the prowl to hunt down someone.  Don't punch, beat someone's head into the ground, get on top of them and assault them for 40+ seconds and you probably aren't going to get shot.

[ChicosBailBonds]

When the police send out those fliers, do they encourage watch members to carry firearms and follow any suspicious characters they see?

In California, they tell you to open your doors and just let them steal as much as they can and then send a thank you note to the governor.

[Pakuni]

I agree that Zimmerman is partly at fault.  What's also of common sense is not to attack someone, punch him to the point of breaking his nose, slam his head into the concrete and then be stunned that he has something to get you to stop it.  Two wrongs.  If GZ doesn't follow, probably nothing happens.  If TM doesn't attack GZ, probably nothing happens.  Both made choices.....unfortunately it tragically ended for one of them and for the other he has been viciously accused of racism, undergoing death threats, etc, etc. 

Yes, that's what I said. The verdict is correct AND George Zimmerman is an idiot whose actions caused an unnecessary death.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'd say that's an incredible and self-serving story, Mr. Zimmerman.

It may be, but also throw in a broken nose, bashed head, and two eyewitness accounts that he was in a pound and ground stance......makes you wonder.  I suspect the jury believed him.  I suspect if the jury was able to see all the texts and videos on TM's phone, it would be even easier to believe him.  Could GZ have made it up, sure...but he didn't make up a broken nose, a bashed head or two eyewitnesses viewing what they saw in the fight. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's called "hearsay," especially since the person "alleged" to have said it is dead,
and the person who claimed he said it isn't.  

Also, what would be the reasonable and rational response to some fat, slovenly toadie
following you around after purchasing iced tea and skittles?

Don't forget the tidbit about the kid looking into the windows of several homes, the rash of recent burglaries by suspects resembling the deceased.  Doesn't make him guilty of anything, hardly....but it's also not like GZ said "Hey, I'm going after some guy tonight just because I want to".  The 911 calls do plenty to tell of his intent.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, that's what I said. The verdict is correct AND George Zimmerman is an idiot whose actions caused an unnecessary death.

You didn't finish it.  Martin was ALSO an idiot whose actions caused his unnecessary death.  That's the part I'm quibbling with.  Don't attack Zimmerman, and you're alive.  Very simple.  Why are Martin's actions, the ones the ULTIMATELY led to the deathly action completely excused?

[Eldon]

One problem comes down to asking the jury 'do you believe that the person legitimately feared for his/her life'.  This is so subjective.

Perhaps Martin was standing his own ground.  Creepy guy follows him, and he feels he has to defend himself.  If he sees the gun, he feels even more threatened.

[ChicosBailBonds]

One problem comes down to asking the jury 'do you believe that the person legitimately feared for his/her life'.  This is so subjective.

Perhaps Martin was standing his own ground.  Creepy guy follows him, and he feels he has to defend himself.  If he sees the gun, he feels even more threatened.

But what physical altercation did GZ start that would force TM to feel he needed to stand his ground?  If he had the gun out...sure.  Then again, if he had the gun out I would think a smart person would run and not take on the guy and punch him in the face.  Bringing a fist to a gun fight isn't too smart.

[reinko]

But what physical altercation did GZ start that would force TM to feel he needed to stand his ground?  If he had the gun out...sure.  Then again, if he had the gun out I would think a smart person would run and not take on the guy and punch him in the face.  Bringing a fist to a gun fight isn't too smart.

Well,  you just called TM an idiot,  and the one who caused his own death.

AMDG

[forgetful]

But what physical altercation did GZ start that would force TM to feel he needed to stand his ground?  If he had the gun out...sure.  Then again, if he had the gun out I would think a smart person would run and not take on the guy and punch him in the face.  Bringing a fist to a gun fight isn't too smart.

I'm not sure...lets ask TM...oh wait we can't, lets just take GZ's word for it.

A side question.  If TM did attack GZ and GZ didn't have a gun, but instead beat TM to death with his fists, GZ would be in jail right now.

Since he had a gun, he could just take a mans life and receive no punishment.

[ATWizJr]

I'm not sure...lets ask TM...oh wait we can't, lets just take GZ's word for it.

A side question.  If TM did attack GZ and GZ didn't have a gun, but instead beat TM to death with his fists, GZ would be in jail right now.

Since he had a gun, he could just take a mans life and receive no punishment.

you are aware of the right to self defense?  

[forgetful]

are aware of the right to self defense? 

If you incapacitate the attacker you are no longer acting in self defense, to beat a man to death you must first incapacitate them.  At that point you are attacking a helpless individual and a self defense stance will almost assuredly fail.

[MerrittsMustache]

Kid wasn't wandering. He was walking home from the store.
And how did he "fit the description"? He was young. And black.
Nice poisoning of the well there at the end though.

The neighborhood had some recent break-ins. The description of the break-in suspect was "young, black male." Martin was a young, black male and he was in the neighborhood. Therefore, Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious.

If the break-in suspect was an elderly Chinese woman and Zimmerman saw an elderly Chinese woman walking in the neighborhood and followed her, would that have been racial profiling also? Does that mean that all elderly Chinese women are suspicious?

[ATWizJr]

If you incapacitate the attacker you are no longer acting in self defense, to beat a man to death you must first incapacitate them.  At that point you are attacking a helpless individual and a self defense stance will almost assuredly fail.

with the adrenalin flowing and in the heat of the moment, an individual who feels his/her life is in jeopardy will probably do everything they can to insure that they totally incapacitate their attacker.

[forgetful]

The neighborhood had some recent break-ins. The description of the break-in suspect was "young, black male." Martin was a young, black male and he was in the neighborhood. Therefore, Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious.

If the break-in suspect was an elderly Chinese woman and Zimmerman saw an elderly Chinese woman walking in the neighborhood and followed her, would that have been racial profiling also? Does that mean that all elderly Chinese women are suspicious?

If GZ thought he looked like he didn't belong, why didn't he just ask the kid if he lived in the neighborhood, instead of stalking him slowly with his hand probably on his weapon.

[lab_warrior]

The neighborhood had some recent break-ins. The description of the break-in suspect was "young, black male." Martin was a young, black male and he was in the neighborhood. Therefore, Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious.

If the break-in suspect was an elderly Chinese woman and Zimmerman saw an elderly Chinese woman walking in the neighborhood and followed her, would that have been racial profiling also? Does that mean that all elderly Chinese women are suspicious?

And he was instructed to NOT follow the kid, and let police handle it.  He didn't.