[Paint Touches] APR scores released; Marquette eighth in Big East

[PaintTouches]

Marquette seems to be in decent condition APR-wise for the near future (hat tip to Jay Bee for the calculations) but is trending downward the past few years.

Any cause for concern?   

http://painttouches.com/2013/06/11/apr-marquette-big-east/

[GGGG]

As long as they stay eligible for post-season play I am not concerned.

[Hards Alumni]

Thanks Todd.

[Groin_pull]

As long as they stay eligible for post-season play I am not concerned.

Are you kidding? Eighth place is an embarrassment. We have no business ripping on UW-Madison (or any other school).

[MerrittsMustache]

Are you kidding? Eighth place is an embarrassment. We have no business ripping on UW-Madison (or any other school).

Would you rather be DePaul with a 984 or Marquette with a 960?

[Groin_pull]

Would you rather be DePaul with a 984 or Marquette with a 960?

Sorry, I lost my head for a second. I was confused and actually thought college was about learning. Silly me.

[Bocephys]

Sorry, I lost my head for a second. I was confused and actually thought college was about learning. Silly me.

We'll let it slide just this once.

[klyrish]

Sorry, I lost my head for a second. I was confused and actually thought college was about learning. Silly me.

I thought it was just about paying a LOT of money to learn how to party and bone.

[Dawson Rental]

Sorry, I lost my head for a second. I was confused and actually thought college was about learning. Silly me.

So, in hindsight, you believe that recruiting DJO, Jae Crowder and Vander Blue were mistakes?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Would you rather be DePaul with a 984 or Marquette with a 960?

How about curtain 3......Butler with a 1000 and an excellent basketball program.   No shame in having good hoops and kids doing fairly well in the classroom.

I know this gets into a fun philosophical argument here by some. 

In the red corner....these guys are just here to play basketball.  They are majoring in basketball.  I don't give a damn if they are learning anything, as long as they are eligible and playing ball.

In the blue corner....these guys are student athletes, and they should be here to be students and athletes.  They need to represent in the classroom and on the court, graduate, etc.  Getting their degree is critical.

Various shades of grey in the other corners dependent upon how you define success of a program. 

Personally, I like shooting for both and I would hope 8th place in a 10 team league can be improved upon.  Plenty of really solid programs out there doing well in both areas.  Others will disagree, I'm sure.

[AlumKCof93]

I agree with chicos.  We should expect much better.  It's not about comparing our bball team to DePaul.  It's about representing the university and making sure the kids coming to school are benefitting academically from their time spent at Marquette.

[kryza]

I agree with chicos.  We should expect much better.  It's not about comparing our bball team to DePaul.  It's about representing the university and making sure the kids coming to school are benefitting academically from their time spent at Marquette.

The APR scores have nothing to do with the academic integrity of a school. In fact, in many cases it might be the exact opposite. If you offer easy classes (i.e. basketweaving) to your student athletes you will be awarded since the only two things the APR score considers is classes passed and graduation rate. If you offer the same type of classes other students take to your student athletes, you will be penalized (since there's a chance athletes may not pass their class).

Take Alabama for example. Their football team has a APR score of 978. But I would still take our basketball team in a quiz bowl over the entire Alabama team in a heartbeat.

Should we try to increase our APR by creating these easy classes or should we educated our student athletes in the same way we do for the rest of our student body? I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not as simple a situation as you may believe.  

[Groin_pull]

The APR scores have nothing to do with the academic integrity of a school. In fact, in many cases it might be the exact opposite. If you offer easy classes (i.e. basketweaving) to your student athletes you will be awarded since the only two things the APR score considers is classes passed and graduation rate. If you offer the same type of classes other students take to your student athletes, you will be penalized (since there's a chance athletes may not pass their class).

Take Alabama for example. Their football team has a APR score of 978. But I would still take our basketball team in a quiz bowl over the entire Alabama team in a heartbeat.

Should we try to increase our APR by creating these easy classes or should we educated our student athletes in the same way we do for the rest of our student body? I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not as simple a situation as you may believe.  

Having shared a few classes with some MU basketball players...I wouldn't get too cocky.

[GGGG]

Are you kidding? Eighth place is an embarrassment. We have no business ripping on UW-Madison (or any other school).

Who rips on UW-Madison?  Honestly, keep them eligible...get them graduated...and make sure they can play hoops.  

EDIT:  And let me add...keep them out of jail.

[sarcastro]

We're closer to third than 9th place St. John's is to us.  How much of this is just from Todd Mayo's academic issues?

[Silkk the Shaka]

Here come the pearl clutchers!

[kryza]

Having shared a few classes with some MU basketball players...I wouldn't get too cocky.

But that's exactly my point, our student athletes take the same classes the normal student body does. As far as I know, we don't create fake classes for them to take like they do at other schools. (If UNC does it, I'm sure many others do too). Heck, UNC had a APR score of 963 even though some athletes never read a single book and couldn't identify what a paragraph was...

[Jay Bee]

The APR measures retention and eligibility. That's it.

When some guys are going to go off to the NBA (or hope to be drafted), some wish to go train with experts and leave school when the season ends. Should a school encourage it? Probably not, but if a kid decides that's what he's going to do, you thank him for his X number of years of being a good student and wish him the best.

That's what MU's issue has mostly been. As long as you're not running a high risk of being penalized, you're fine (my view). Tell kids coming in you'd like them to stay and finish up their semester if they do reach a point where they are ready to go pro... tell kids coming in you may resist a "full release" transfer situation if their grades are terrible.  But, if those things happen, deal with it.

Remember, the APR doesn't measure grades or graduation. Also understand you're not talking about massive deductions here for most teams. If you had an average of just two guys jet each year right after the season to prep for the NBA draft, you'd be banned from postseason.

[Groin_pull]

But that's exactly my point, our student athletes take the same classes the normal student body does. As far as I know, we don't create fake classes for them to take like they do at other schools. (If UNC does it, I'm sure many others do too). Heck, UNC had a APR score of 963 even though some athletes never read a single book and couldn't identify what a paragraph was...

I'm still trying to figure out how they were admitted into MU in the first place. (I'd rather not name names)

[forgetful]

But that's exactly my point, our student athletes take the same classes the normal student body does. As far as I know, we don't create fake classes for them to take like they do at other schools. (If UNC does it, I'm sure many others do too). Heck, UNC had a APR score of 963 even though some athletes never read a single book and couldn't identify what a paragraph was...

Even UW has most of their athletes as Life Science Communication Majors.  They are the only university in the country to have a program in this glorious area. 

Don't get me wrong they have a few that are great students, but even they find ways to shield their athletes from the rigors of a normal curriculum. 

The LSC degree only requires 24 credit hours, thereby assuring they can finish with a degree and maintain APR.

[GGGG]

I'm still trying to figure out how they were admitted into MU in the first place. (I'd rather not name names)

Are you under the impression that basketball players are under the same admission standards as regular students?

If so, that's really cute!

[reinko]

The APR measures retention and eligibility. That's it.

When some guys are going to go off to the NBA (or hope to be drafted), some wish to go train with experts and leave school when the season ends. Should a school encourage it? Probably not, but if a kid decides that's what he's going to do, you thank him for his X number of years of being a good student and wish him the best.

That's what MU's issue has mostly been. As long as you're not running a high risk of being penalized, you're fine (my view). Tell kids coming in you'd like them to stay and finish up their semester if they do reach a point where they are ready to go pro... tell kids coming in you may resist a "full release" transfer situation if their grades are terrible.  But, if those things happen, deal with it.

Remember, the APR doesn't measure grades or graduation. Also understand you're not talking about massive deductions here for most teams. If you had an average of just two guys jet each year right after the season to prep for the NBA draft, you'd be banned from postseason.

Get the unnatural carnal knowledge out of here with your fact based analysis based on reason and experience.

[forgetful]

Are you under the impression that basketball players are under the same admission standards as regular students?

If so, that's really cute!

It is not just basketball players, athletes of all types, legacies and others are on their own admission standards. 

That is why most admissions no longer have hard requirements rather statements like:

"Numbers alone do not determine admissibility. We look for students with special or unique talents, who give of themselves, and who learn outside the classroom as well as inside."  From the UW admission standards.

[setyoursightsnorth]

Take Alabama for example. Their football team has a APR score of 978. But I would still take our basketball team in a quiz bowl over the entire Alabama team in a heartbeat.

I'd take our basketball team over all of Alabama. Lolz.

[marquette20]

Just keeping getting those traditionals!