Thank God for Crean's Donation!

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yep.

I live in Indiana and have a lot of friends who are IU fans and they are very happy with Crean.

However if he doesn't get further along in the tournament over the next five years, I am pretty sure those feelings will change.

Bingo.

As long as he wins, it's all good.

But, "winning" at IU isn't like "winning" at other places.

The pressure is going to crank up, but obviously the pay-off of winning at IU is pretty great.

[The Lens]

I grew up a huge MU fan and went to Indiana, graduated in 2010.  THERE IS NO WAY 40% of people want Crean out.  He has had 3 straight top 10 recruiting classes and two straight top 5. The only people who see him as this evil jackass are living in the city of milwaukee.

You're right, the 40% number was those who liked him.  I will say, my sample is alums who live in Chicago - some who because of family, friends or proximity know about him from MU. 

Additional I have a very good friend who went to IU and is from Louisville and now lives in MKE.  He has a 2 MU 5 packs to make sure he catches the Cards.  He was not happy at all when IU got Crean. 

The facts are Crean is a pretty good coach for MU.  He's a very average coach for Indiana.

[mugrad2006]

I think it's pretty clear Chicos would never use "Eagle" in one of his screen names.

Unless he's trying to throw us off....

He's crazy like a fox!

[joe pop]

You're right, the 40% number was those who liked him.  I will say, my sample is alums who live in Chicago - some who because of family, friends or proximity know about him from MU. 

Additional I have a very good friend who went to IU and is from Louisville and now lives in MKE.  He has a 2 MU 5 packs to make sure he catches the Cards.  He was not happy at all when IU got Crean. 

The facts are Crean is a pretty good coach for MU.  He's a very average coach for Indiana.

Go to an Indiana website and post your theory that 40% of the fan base is in support of crean.  I'm sure I know a lot more people that are IU basketball fans than you and know that the support for crean is very high.  He's not a perfect coach by any means but to suggest 40% of IU fans are in favor of him is absolutely ridiculous.

[MUSF]

I also know both kinds of IU fans. The more casual ones love him and think he saved the program. The ones who follow things more closely are often embarrassed by his behavior and see serious limitations in his coaching abilities. Similar to how MU fans felt by year 6.

Both of these perspectives are correct; they aren't mutually exclusive.

He did save their program, he does act like a jackass at times, and he certainly has limitations. It is possible to recognize Crean's flaws AND his accomplishments. Many of the Crean haters refuse to do that.

[real chili 83]

Ahem

Joe=chic=eagle=aloop

Oh, Canada   . Three hours from the border.

[Lennys Tap]

Both of these perspectives are correct; they aren't mutually exclusive.

He did save their program, he does act like a jackass at times, and he certainly has limitations. It is possible to recognize Crean's flaws AND his accomplishments. Many of the Crean haters refuse to do that.

Things are cyclical. A blue blood program that has bottomed but that still has the resources and commitment to succeed is the easiest buy low scenario you'll ever find. The more precipitous the decline the better. Tom Crean did not SAVE Indiana basketball. He coached it through what was its inevitable (barring a death penalty offense) bounce back to normalcy.

[keefe]

Just hanging a Big Ten championship banner....how long before Meatchicken has to pull their banner down again and roll it up into the archives? 

Isn't one of IU's proud traditions to list Conference Championships on a collective banner? Crean pays a lot of lip service to honoring an institution's storied past. Living up to those cherished conventions, rituals and lore is where he falls dreadfully short. Character is practiced rather than preached.

[joe pop]

Isn't one of IU's proud traditions to list Conference Championships on a collective banner? Crean pays a lot of lip service to honoring an institution's storied past. Living up to those cherished conventions, rituals and lore is where he falls dreadfully short. Character is practiced rather than preached.

Explain  how he has not lived up so far. Big ten championship in year 5 with 3 circumstantially bad years to start it all.

[keefe]

Explain  how he has not lived up so far. Big ten championship in year 5 with 3 circumstantially bad years to start it all.

Hoopaloop! Welcome back my friend. It's been too long, really!

[joe pop]

Hoopaloop! Welcome back my friend. It's been too long, really!

Ah is that the other Tom Crean defender?

[keefe]

Ah is that the other Tom Crean defender?

[joe pop]

[/quote

nice one

[MUSF]

Things are cyclical. A blue blood program that has bottomed but that still has the resources and commitment to succeed is the easiest buy low scenario you'll ever find. The more precipitous the decline the better. Tom Crean did not SAVE Indiana basketball. He coached it through what was its inevitable (barring a death penalty offense) bounce back to normalcy.

This is exactly what I was talking about. Crean gets no credit for IU's resurgence because that was just part of the natural cycle. Hmm, this sounds awfully familiar...

Crean gets no credit for the final four because that was all DWade. (Of course the horrible final four loss was all Crean's fault)

Crean gets no credit for bringing DWade to MU because he got lucky with an under the radar recruit that everybody else missed on.

Crean gets no credit for developing Wade because he was such a special talent that would have become elite anyway. (weird that no other team would take a chance on such a special talent)

Crean gets no credit for MU's move to the BEast because that was momentum from the final four, which as previously explained was all DWade's doing.

Ugh!

[joe pop]

This is exactly what I was talking about. Crean gets no credit for IU's resurgence because that was just part of the natural cycle. Hmm, this sounds awfully familiar...

Crean gets no credit for the final four because that was all DWade. (Of course the horrible final four loss was all Crean's fault)

Crean gets no credit for bringing DWade to MU because he got lucky with an under the radar recruit that everybody else missed on.

Crean gets no credit for developing Wade because he was such a special talent that would have become elite anyway. (weird that no other team would take a chance on such a special talent)

Crean gets no credit for MU's move to the BEast because that was momentum from the final four, which as previously explained was all DWade's doing.

Ugh!

AMEN Brother

[The Lens]

This is exactly what I was talking about. Crean gets no credit for IU's resurgence because that was just part of the natural cycle. Hmm, this sounds awfully familiar...

Crean gets no credit for the final four because that was all DWade. (Of course the horrible final four loss was all Crean's fault)

Crean gets no credit for bringing DWade to MU because he got lucky with an under the radar recruit that everybody else missed on.

Crean gets no credit for developing Wade because he was such a special talent that would have become elite anyway. (weird that no other team would take a chance on such a special talent)

Crean gets no credit for MU's move to the BEast because that was momentum from the final four, which as previously explained was all DWade's doing.

Ugh!

Please.  I'll give you he saved MU hoops (though you could argue KO's job was tougher and more important).  And he recruited Wade so he gets that credit too.  But any solid coach was going to turn IU around.  They tied for the Big Ten the year prior and were a tourney team the year he took over. He chose to kick out all the pot smokers who didn't want to go to school.   He chose not use transfers and jucos.  He chose to build slowly.  He made the process long and heroic looking.  Calipari would have been in the Elite 8 in Year 2.

I don't begrudge TC for what he did here.  I didn't care when he left because it was clear he was done moving up at MU (he only recruited well when he had tons of PT to promise).  2003 was great.  2002 was a ton of fun and many, many parts of 2006-2008 were awesome too.  That's all Tom's doing. But Buzz has shown others can win at MU.  KO showed that too.  We fired a guy who won 100 games in 5 years, we shouldn't commission a statue for a dude who followed up a Final Four with 2 NITs, 2 1st round exits and a thrilling OT game vs Stanford.  We're Marquette, we don't hang banners for just anything!

[wadesworld]

This is exactly what I was talking about. Crean gets no credit for IU's resurgence because that was just part of the natural cycle. Hmm, this sounds awfully familiar...

Crean gets no credit for the final four because that was all DWade. (Of course the horrible final four loss was all Crean's fault)

Crean gets no credit for bringing DWade to MU because he got lucky with an under the radar recruit that everybody else missed on.

Crean gets no credit for developing Wade because he was such a special talent that would have become elite anyway. (weird that no other team would take a chance on such a special talent)

Crean gets no credit for MU's move to the BEast because that was momentum from the final four, which as previously explained was all DWade's doing.

Ugh!

HAHA!  This is too funny!  Crean was the only one who had the cajones to take the chance on Dwyane Wade.  Oh wait, that's right, none of the big boys could take Dwyane Wade because their conferences wouldn't allow them to take partial qualifiers (which Wade was).  Crean had to compete with schools the quality of Northern Illinois to get Dwyane Wade.  Thank God Tom Crean has balls 

And really?  You don't think Wade would have developed into a star?  Yeah, alright.  Mac Brown is the man for turning Durant into who he is.  If we can get LeBron's high school coach we should show Buzz the door immediately!  Melo better send Boeheim family Christmas cards until he's dead for how he developed him!  C'mon man!  From day 1 of his redshirt freshman year we heard about how Wade was absolutely tearing it up in practice.  Wade would've been a SUPERSTAR weather Crean or myself coached him.

[wadesworld]

Doesn't prove your point at all, in fact it does the opposite.  Do I think they will be happy in 4 years with those results, probably not.  That's not what you were talking about...you were talking about the initial years, not the next 4 years.  So why are you now moving the goal posts?

You were the one that talked about what had been accomplished, and you left a ton of stuff out.  Nothing about the future, now you want to change the argument to the future....big difference.

Decide what it is you want to talk about....stick to it

The post that I originally quoted said that Tom Crean is in great shape.  My response was that based on what he has (or has not) achieved so far at Indiana, he really isn't.  Continue on his path and he'll be out sooner than you (and the original poster) seem to think.  So my response did look to the future.  I stand by it and nothing changed in my responses.  I looked at his present results to determine his future may not be so bright.  Hard to understand?

The point is that he had 2 lottery picks on his roster and a group of very strong role players this year and he bowed out early.  Sure the first 2 years you can understand IU being horrible.  Year 5?  With that roster?  I'm not sure Crean's going to get very many stronger teams, in a year where college basketball was so down, and he makes a Sweet 16.  But hey, they got that Big Ten title.  THAT'S HOW YOU WIN AT INDIANA!

[wadesworld]

Well said, so many fun flaws with his comments.

One, he has been there 5 years, not 6.

Talks about all these top 10 classes as if there were 5 of them, hardly.  I believe there have been two that actually got to campus and they have gone to a Sweet 16 and a Big Ten title with them.  A third arrives on campus this year.

Two, they weren't the favorite, let alone the overwhelming favorite.  The odds based on Vegas had Louisville winning it all, so only in his mind were they the overwhelming favorite...pretty funny.  Louisville at 9 to 2 was the favorite.  There was no OVERWHELMING favorite as a bunch of teams were clustered after Louisville at 7 to 1 and 8 to 1 (which, by the way, none of the four teams that were 7 or 8-to-1 even made the Final Four).

This is especially true in a one and done tournament.  We have people here predicting the Heat would win the title 10 times out of 10 and they get best of 7 series and they are needing everything in their bag of tricks to make it happen, and they still might not.

He starts off discussion about what few accomplishments he's had, now he pivots to make it a future state article after being show he actually had accomplished a lot.

2 top 10 recruiting classes in 5 years?  That's pretty strong.  The best season he's had is a Big Ten title and a Sweet 16.  That's not very strong at a program like IU.  Buzz has yet to have a top 10 class in 5 years at Marquette.  The best season he's had is an Elite Eight and a Big East title at a far lesser (historically) program.  Honestly, I don't even think about the Big East title we won this year.  I think about the Elite Eight and having a chance to go to a Final Four.  If I personally were an Indiana fan I would think "We had 2 lottery picks and a couple more NBA players in the future, we won the Big Ten, and we only made it to the Sweet 16.  That sucks."  Not "Woo hoo!  Big Ten champs!"  Maybe it's just me.

And you're flat out wrong.  The "experts" were asking not just whether Indiana would win the National Title, but whether they would go undefeated!  But no, they weren't favorites.  Oh wait, they were the favorites going into the season.  Sure, you can twist the numbers and hope I don't notice you were using the odds after the Conference Tournaments but before the NCAA Tournament.  We were talking about the preseason favorites.  But hey, good try! 

http://www.sportsoddshistory.com/aa_php/main.php?y=2012-2013&s=cbb&a=nc&p=&o=p2#tp

Click on "Jul 1" at the top of the chart, and, shocking, you will find *drumbroll please!* INDIANA at the top!  Now try the "Nov 9" button and...whalah!...It's Indiana, It's Indiana at the top!  AKA, they were the...are you ready for this?...PRESEASON FAVORITES to win the National Title this year!

But hey, I'm the one changing the argument   

[MUSF]

HAHA!  This is too funny!  Crean was the only one who had the cajones to take the chance on Dwyane Wade.  Oh wait, that's right, none of the big boys could take Dwyane Wade because their conferences wouldn't allow them to take partial qualifiers (which Wade was).  Crean had to compete with schools the quality of Northern Illinois to get Dwyane Wade.  Thank God Tom Crean has balls 

And really?  You don't think Wade would have developed into a star?  Yeah, alright.  Mac Brown is the man for turning Durant into who he is.  If we can get LeBron's high school coach we should show Buzz the door immediately!  Melo better send Boeheim family Christmas cards until he's dead for how he developed him!  C'mon man!  From day 1 of his redshirt freshman year we heard about how Wade was absolutely tearing it up in practice.  Wade would've been a SUPERSTAR weather Crean or myself coached him.

Seriously? How do you not realize that your two points contradict each other?

There were plenty of "big boys" that could have taken Wade, at least bigger than MU at the time. So Crean either gets credit for finding a diamond in the rough in Wade, or developing him into an elite player. It's one, the other, or a combination of both. Your revisionist history makes it seem like Wade was universally recognized as an elite player in high school (not true), and no other high major program could take Wade on (also not true).

[🏀]

There were plenty of "big boys" that could have taken Wade, at least bigger than MU at the time.

Please explain these "big boys".

Dwyane was Prop 48. Big Ten couldn't take him, ACC couldn't take him, Big East couldn't take him.

If Dwyane had the grades, he wouldn't have been a 'diamond in the rough'.

[MUSF]

Please explain these "big boys".

Dwyane was Prop 48. Big Ten couldn't take him, ACC couldn't take him, Big East couldn't take him.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong about the Big East, not sure about the Big Ten but I thought they left it up to individual schools. I thought Indiana had a partial qualifier around the same time Wade was coming into MU. I am by no means an expert on NCAA and conference rules, so I could be off on some of this.

Cincinnati could have taken him and they were a top five team the year prior. Marquis Estill at Kentucky sat out as a partial qualifier the same year Wade did, so it seems that the SEC didn't have a rule against partial qualifiers. Hell, DePaul was coming off of a top 25 season, and MU beat them out for Wade.

Why doesn't Crean deserve credit for taking the risk on Wade when others that could chose not to?

[keefe]

Crean inherited the worst situation in college basketball, potentially in history.  He had 1 returning player who was  WALK ONNN his first year.  He won the big ten this year and fell short in the tourney because they came up against a terrible matchup, who also suffocated MU by the way.  They fact that you think he has not accomplished much tells me you have very little knowledge of college basketball.  Grow up Crean moved onto a Blueblood program where he is lined up to have years of success.  Not to mention he left MU with the cupboard as full as possible with the big three as seniors and lazar as a junior.  Coaches leave places all the time, its time for you to stop being bitter.

The situation at It's Indiana was no where close to the radioactive disaster that was Baylor in the aftermath of Dave Bliss. Players murdering each other, the coach urging players and parents to lie to investigators about it, the coach paying the tuition for players who thought they were on scholarship, the coach suggesting the murdered player was a drug dealer, etc... Baylor had murder, extortion, obstruction, embezzlement, fraud, and witness tampering. Indiana was a Girl Scout jamboree by comparison.

Crean likes to portray himself as a crusading knight locked in a desperate struggle for survival against insurmountable odds... If he truly wants to wear the hard earned cape of the valorous I suggest he find the nearest Marine Corps recruiting station. What he did at IU was difficult but far from epic or heroic.   

By comparison, Scott Drew took on a Herculean assignment and resurrected Baylor's program but without the P.T. Barnum self-aggrandizement that characterizes Crean's work at IU. Drew had the far more arduous task which he undertook with quiet distinction. Crean should take note and learn the dignity of grace. It would elevate his standing in the eyes of many.

[MUSF]

But Buzz has shown others can win at MU.  KO showed that too.  We fired a guy who won 100 games in 5 years, we shouldn't commission a statue for a dude who followed up a Final Four with 2 NITs, 2 1st round exits and a thrilling OT game vs Stanford.  We're Marquette, we don't hang banners for just anything!

Who on earth is making this argument you are attacking?

Anyone who thinks we should commission a statue of Crean raise your hand.

[keefe]

Who on earth is making this argument you are attacking?

Anyone who thinks we should commission a statue of Crean raise your hand.