Thank God for Crean's Donation!

[keefe]

Uhm, no...they didn't.  I don't know why you keep getting these things wrong.  You claim 6 years, it was 5.  You claim overwhelming favorite, they weren't even the favorite with some oddsmakers, let alone the favorite. Did some experts pick them to win it before one single game was played, of course.  Did some odds makers, yup....overwhelming?  Laughable.  6-1 odds by one Vegas casino with the next team at 7-1...overwhelming I tell ya.  I'll remind you they had the fewest points for a preseason #1 in many years because there were so many "experts" that felt there were other teams that deserved that ranking.  I'd also remind you these same "EXPERTS" at the end of the season said Gonzaga was the number one team in the country.  LOL.  The same Vegas experts that had Kentucky 3rd best odds to win it all.  LOL.  

You said Crean would be fired by year 4, instead anything but.   Look, we get it, but your hatred is clouding your judgment by a ton.  It is what it is, but you got caught saying a bunch of stuff that was wrong and you don't like being called out on it.  Sorry, too bad.

That's all well and good but has Tanned Tommy written that check yet?

[wadesworld]

Uhm, no...they didn't.  I don't know why you keep getting these things wrong.  You claim 6 years, it was 5.  You claim overwhelming favorite, they weren't even the favorite with some oddsmakers, let alone the favorite. Did some experts pick them to win it before one single game was played, of course.  Did some odds makers, yup....overwhelming?  Laughable.  6-1 odds by one Vegas casino with the next team at 7-1...overwhelming I tell ya.  I'll remind you they had the fewest points for a preseason #1 in many years because there were so many "experts" that felt there were other teams that deserved that ranking.  I'd also remind you these same "EXPERTS" at the end of the season said Gonzaga was the number one team in the country.  LOL.  The same Vegas experts that had Kentucky 3rd best odds to win it all.  LOL.  

You said Crean would be fired by year 4, instead anything but.   Look, we get it, but your hatred is clouding your judgment by a ton.  It is what it is, but you got caught saying a bunch of stuff that was wrong and you don't like being called out on it.  Sorry, too bad.

Umm, nope.  I said one wrong thing, his sixth year.  Then you went and tried to use odds that were made right before the NCAA Tournament to prove that Indiana wasn't the preseason favorite.  How that makes sense, nobody knows.  I'm not quite sure you even know.  But you tried, so A for effort.  Find me one place that DID NOT have Indiana as the preseason favorite to win the National Championship (hint: preseason does not mean after the Conference Tournaments, it means BEFORE the season).  Then maybe I'll admit they weren't the overwhelming favorite to win it all.  When a team is unanimously chosen to win the National Championship and every single preseason oddsmaker favors them, that is OVERWHELMING.  If they weren't overwhelmingly the favorite, at least one place would've had some sort of odds with at least one other team favored above them.

Again, how about all the talk about whether or not Indiana would go undefeated this year.  I suppose there is usually talk about that with teams that aren't overwhelming favorites to win the National Championship  .  Keep trying.

And please quote where I said I thought Tom Crean would be canned after 4 years at IU.  Never happened.  It is what it is, but you got caught saying a bunch of stuff that was wrong and you don't like being called out on it.  Sorry, too bad. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

www.peegs.com.  go there.  thanks.

Lame site, no thanks.  Besides, I'm a MU grad first and foremost....I just enjoy the predictive capabilities here based on hate and not reality come home to roost.  Rather funny.  Nothing screams crazy hypocrisy like vindictive fans of any sport or teams in particular. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

One casino (Las Vegas Hotel and Sports Book) had Louisville 9-2, IU 7-1 and 3 teams at 8-1. The Bovada Sports Book (largest in the world) had IU and Louisville co favorites at 5-1. Most had Louisville 19-4, IU 5-1, Florida at 7-1 and Gonzaga and Kansas at 10-1. The best oddsmaker around (Nate Silver) had Louisville 4.41-1, IU 5.08 -1, Florida 7.87 -1, followed by Kansas (13.33-1) and Gonzaga at 16.67-1. So your "consensus" line is anything but.

And Indiana wasn't just the preseason favorite. I don't know the exact date, but very late in the season, when IU had a 24-5 record, bettorsworld.com had IU at 9-2, Duke at 6-1 and Louisville and Florida at 7-1.

Summary: Louisville and Indiana were thought to be head and shoulders above the rest of the field. One proved they were, one proved (remember it took an incredibly bad shooting game by Temple for IU to even play - and be routed by - Syracuse) they weren't.

Let me make sure I have this right, being 7-1 2 days before the tournament is HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the rest of the field when the three teams were 8-1.  Interesting.  I guess you and I define head and shoulders above much differently.

Back to the original point, WadesWorld said they were overwhelming favorites.  FALSE.  PATENTLY FALSE.

Yup, Temple let IU stick around and win that game, much like Davidson pissed their pants to let MU avoid a 14 vs 3 upset.  It happens, welcome to the NCAA tournament.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Umm, nope.  I said one wrong thing, his sixth year.  Then you went and tried to use odds that were made right before the NCAA Tournament to prove that Indiana wasn't the preseason favorite.  How that makes sense, nobody knows.  I'm not quite sure you even know.  But you tried, so A for effort.  Find me one place that DID NOT have Indiana as the preseason favorite to win the National Championship (hint: preseason does not mean after the Conference Tournaments, it means BEFORE the season).  Then maybe I'll admit they weren't the overwhelming favorite to win it all.  When a team is unanimously chosen to win the National Championship and every single preseason oddsmaker favors them, that is OVERWHELMING.  If they weren't overwhelmingly the favorite, at least one place would've had some sort of odds with at least one other team favored above them.

Again, how about all the talk about whether or not Indiana would go undefeated this year.  I suppose there is usually talk about that with teams that aren't overwhelming favorites to win the National Championship  .  Keep trying.

And please quote where I said I thought Tom Crean would be canned after 4 years at IU.  Never happened.  It is what it is, but you got caught saying a bunch of stuff that was wrong and you don't like being called out on it.  Sorry, too bad. 

Lenny already did some of the work for you....I'd invite you to read his post.  Again, "overwhelming" is not only false, but patently false in my opinion.  In some cases they weren't even the favorite, in other cases the favorite, barely, but with other teams just behind them.  When you say overwhelming favorite I expect them to be 2 to 1 favorites with the next team at 15 to 1 (or 10 to 1).  Instead we're talking 7 to 1 with a three teams at 8 to 1, to name just one example of many....how is that an overwhelming favorite.  If 15 newspapers picked Obama to win the election 50.01% to 49.99% does that make him the overwhelming favorite?  Hardly, it means a bunch of folks predicted him to win, but it's almost too close to call.  The quantity of the endorsements isn't what makes someone overwhelming, it's how much you're putting behind those predictions...what are the odds

So sorry, you were wrong on 6 years vs five, you were patently wrong on overwhelming favorite.

All the talk about IU going undefeated this year?  LOL....who on earth would say that considering the league they were in and the schedule they played?  Where are you reading this stuff?  That's crazy talk. 


This, is not the definition of overwhelming:

Louisville 9 to 2
IU 7 to 1
Florida 8 to 1

In 2014, this is the definition of overwhelming favorite

Kentucky 5 to 1
Duke 12 to 1
Louisville 12 to 1
Florida 15 to 1

Even if you want to use the polls, which I find ridiculous, but let's play along.  IU got 43 of 65 first place votes...the lowest number since 2007 and the third lowest in the last 15 years.  Most years there is a true dominant team picked by the pollsters out of the gate, that was not the case this year because of parity and all kinds of other reasons.  IU had a very nice starting five, zero depth...if they shot poorly from the beyond the arc, that was always going to be a weak spot for them.  I actually think their team 2 years from now will be better than last year's team in terms of top to bottom depth.

[Jay Bee]

IU had a very nice starting five, zero depth

I4 was the consensus favorite and had a disappointing end to their season.

They also had the flippin Sixth Man of the Year in the Big Ten, so I have a difficult time agreeing with your claim of "zero depth". In fact, I4 was VERY deep, but not used well. Some of that is on Crean's usage... but it all started with cutting Matt Roth from the program. Then you had eligibility issues due to shiesty goings-on with some of their freshmen.

In addition to Will Sheehey's stellar play, Remy Abell provided solid offensive contributions off the bench (he's since left). Hollowell is legit and that truth will be revealed.

[Lennys Tap]

Let me make sure I have this right, being 7-1 2 days before the tournament is HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the rest of the field when the three teams were 8-1.  Interesting.  I guess you and I define head and shoulders above much differently.

Back to the original point, WadesWorld said they were overwhelming favorites.  FALSE.  PATENTLY FALSE.

Sorry, you don't "have it right". IU was 7-1 at one casino, 5-1 at several, 5.08-1 by the foremost authority (Nate Silver). Louisville and Indiana were head and shoulders above the rest of the pack.

Regarding Wade's "overwhelming favorite" statement, you are both technically right. Indiana was #1 in virtually every poll and to Wade that constitutes overwhelming. You point out (correctly) that they weren't #1 by a large margin, so they weren't an overwhelming favorite in your view. I happen to agree with your interpretation of the facts (opinion) on this, but to me Wade's opinion is wrong but not false, patently or otherwise.

[keefe]

I4 was the consensus favorite and had a disappointing end to their season.

Will Sheehey's stellar play

Sheehey was magnificent in the Minnesota game. Of course, CTC's in-game adjustment was pivotal as well.


Coach Tom Crean is a master of the in-game adjustment. The Top-Ranked Hoosiers are losing to an unheralded Minnesota squad. There is just one opportunity to snatch victory from the jaws of a hideously shameful defeat. Coach Tom Crean draws up the play and runs through it with his charges. The game is on the line.





The ball is inbounded and Sheehey takes an elbow square on the jaw! The force of that hit would cripple a lesser man!





Sheehey writhes in agony at the shock of such a devastating blow. He loses all composure and crawls on the ground like a wounded animal. His teammate's obvious concern is palpable.





A distraught Sheehey ponders the injustice of it all...

[forgetful]

Sheehey was magnificent in the Minnesota game. Of course, CTC's in-game adjustment was pivotal as well.


Coach Tom Crean is a master of the in-game adjustment. The Top-Ranked Hoosiers are losing to an unheralded Minnesota squad. There is just one opportunity to snatch victory from the jaws of a hideously shameful defeat. Coach Tom Crean draws up the play and runs through it with his charges. The game is on the line.





The ball is inbounded and Sheehey takes an elbow square on the jaw! The force of that hit would cripple a lesser man!





Sheehey writhes in agony at the shock of such a devastating blow. He loses all composure and crawls on the ground like a wounded animal. His teammate's obvious concern is palpable.





A distraught Sheehey ponders the injustice of it all...

Honestly, if up until that point one still had a lot of respect for Crean, it should have all evaporated. 

There is a point where you are a better person/coach to lose in honor, than to win by cheating.

[ChicosBailBonds]

LOL, it's cheating to tell someone to flop.....I'm guessing you have never been to a KO, BW, etc practice in your life.  We have taught it at MU for years just as many other schools and programs have.  It's called learning how to "sell a foul" or "sell a charge".

Just as football defensive line coaches teach how to sell a hold, soccer coaches teach how to sell a trip, basketball coaches teach how to sell a charge.

[keefe]

LOL, it's cheating to tell someone to flop.....I'm guessing you have never been to a KO, BW, etc practice in your life.  We have taught it at MU for years just as many other schools and programs have.  It's called learning how to "sell a foul" or "sell a charge".

Just as football defensive line coaches teach how to sell a hold, soccer coaches teach how to sell a trip, basketball coaches teach how to sell a charge.

I agree that teams "sell a charge" but this was materially different. The Bronzed Beast instructed his guys to feign getting hit in the face with an elbow to draw a flagrant foul. And Sheehey did more than sell a charge. He fell to the ground holding his jaw then writhed like a dog in exquisite agony. He carried on the charade all the way back to the bench, even after HE was called for the foul. Disgusting.

[forgetful]

LOL, it's cheating to tell someone to flop.....I'm guessing you have never been to a KO, BW, etc practice in your life.  We have taught it at MU for years just as many other schools and programs have.  It's called learning how to "sell a foul" or "sell a charge".

Just as football defensive line coaches teach how to sell a hold, soccer coaches teach how to sell a trip, basketball coaches teach how to sell a charge.

You are right, I have not been to a KO or BW practice, the last MU practice I was at was in the old gym pre KO.  But as Keefe has already mentioned, there is a difference in accentuating the amount of contact made to help get a call (not just absorbing the contact and moving on).  Frankly, contact isn't sufficient for a call these days, you have to get knocked on your ass or no foul...no blood no foul. 

It is a completely different case to instruct a player during a timeout to completely fake contact, writhe in pain (when there was no contact) to draw a flagrant foul so you could win the game.

Lets use a business example.  I'm sure everyone has filled out expense reports before for travel.  One could keep all the receipts for meals, but sometimes you come out better taking a per diem.  So we take the per diem as it is far easier and nets us a few extra dollars.  Not exactly perfectly honest, but accepted practice (i.e. selling a foul).  Now if instead you decided, I'll just make up some fake receipts that I can use to get far more money, you officially have stepped across the line and are a cheat.  Crean stepped way over the line with his actions on that play.

[Coleman]

Looking at this play a few times the biggest difference for me is that it appears premeditated. IU was down 5 points so they decided to try to get a flagrant so they could get 2 free throws and the ball. This was not taking a foul or a hard hit and trying to get something out of it. This was trying to make something out of nothing. And it didn't work and it looked pretty foolish.

Really, to me this is trying to cheat. It is trying to take away a game from another team of college students that they had fairly won by portraying something that plainly didn't happen. Its not in the same realm as accentuating a charge on a physical play. It is poor sportsmanship and certainly not in the spirit of fair play.

[Lennys Tap]

Putting your chin intentionally on a guy's shoulder and feigning contact/injury from a phantom elbow (as a strategy) is cheating. Any coach who teaches this is a cheater. Comparing it to teaching good defensive position to try to win those often "coin flip" block/charge situations that occur in the normal course of a game is wrong.

[keefe]

The Chico defense...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is Keefe still claiming that TC said something on the video when it was proven it was the ESPN announcer.  That was funny to watch you try to spin out of that one Keefe.

Here's what he said according to the professional lip reader.

"Try to get a foul".     I'll emphasize again, "TRY to get a foul"

He then says "That's his arm.  It's all up on this"

Finally he says, "Five.  Grab, and foul"


http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/193654961.html
Happy Fathers Day....and the daily Hate TC Circle Jerk club

[keefe]

Is Keefe still claiming that TC said something on the video when it was proven it was the ESPN announcer.  That was funny to watch you try to spin out of that one Keefe.

Here's what he said according to the professional lip reader.

"Try to get a foul".     I'll emphasize again, "TRY to get a foul"

He then says "That's his arm.  It's all up on this"

Finally he says, "Five.  Grab, and foul"


http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/193654961.html
Happy Fathers Day....and the daily Hate TC Circle Jerk club

Are you seriously saying this writer exonerates Crean? In fact he concludes Crean instructed Sheehey to fake the flagrant foul. The vast majority of observers are convinced Crean instructed his team to do exactly what Sheehey did.

The real issue is that people are willing to accept the notion that Tom Crean is a cheat. And that is a statement on his character, values, and integrity. What Tanned Tommy fails to understand is that leadership is 100% about serving others. An Air Force officer asks, "How can I help these men?" A guy like Crean asks, "How can these men help me?"

[Lennys Tap]

Are you seriously saying this writer exonerates Crean? In fact he concludes Crean instructed Sheehey to fake the flagrant foul. The vast majority of observers are convinced Crean instructed his team to do exactly what Sheehey did.

The real issue is that people are willing to accept the notion that Tom Crean is a cheat. And that is a statement on his character, values, and integrity. What Tanned Tommy fails to understand is that leadership is 100% about serving others. An Air Force officer asks, "How can I help these men?" A guy like Crean asks, "How can these men help me?"

You're right of course. Quid est, est. Only a card carrying Crean-0-Phile woundn't be disgusted by TC's "game plan" and how Sheehey carried it out.

[keefe]

You're right of course. Quid est, est. Only a card carrying Crean-0-Phile woundn't be disgusted by TC's "game plan" and how Sheehey carried it out.

Quaere verum

[4everwarriors]

Crean sucks

[keefe]

I have similar anecdotal evidence that says otherwise. My boss, another co-worker, and a couple friends are "IU faithful", and they all speak highly of Crean. They are happy to have IU back in the national spotlight, Big Ten contenders, #1 ranking, top 10 recruiting classes, and above all else a clean program.

That said, both of us can only cite anecdotal evidence. If you can somehow show me a mass movement against Crean, I would concede. My guess is that you won't find it, because it doesn't exist.

Well, I guess it does exist, now, doesn't it...

It's only a matter of time before The Arrogant A55wipe of Athens overstays his welcome in the Peachtree State and gets shown the door once more.