Am I missing something? JJJ/Freshman Impact

[Goose]

Scoring points is the name of the game today. MU did not have good defense last year, they had a bad offense that took up time. Styles like Louisville is the way to play today. Buzz now has athletes that are basketball players and it will translate to points moving forward. Wilson and JJJ are the keys going forward. Presuure D and pushing the ball up court will win more games than bad half court offense with no scorers.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Dom James Freshman:
2005-06    31g 32.5min 15.3pts 43.1FG% 30.13% 64.1FT% 5.4A    4.5RBs 0.4BLKs 1.6STLs

It can be done, he was the last recruit ranked as highly as JJJ and the minutes will be available. There is a reason Juan tried to transfer, and JJJ is that reason.

Dom James was Big East rookie of the year.

Do you really expect every recruit ranked better than #50 to come in and be THAT good?

(I'll give you a hint, it's not possible).

[Goose]

Guns

Aside from top 10 guys the recruiting numbers for next 50 vary a great deal. As discussed on here before if JJJ, Wilson or Burton signed with Kentucky they likely would be graded much higher. Our two guards have very high upside and it will be seen on the court next season.

[GGGG]

Scoring points is the name of the game today. MU did not have good defense last year, they had a bad offense that took up time. Styles like Louisville is the way to play today. Buzz now has athletes that are basketball players and it will translate to points moving forward. Wilson and JJJ are the keys going forward. Presuure D and pushing the ball up court will win more games than bad half court offense with no scorers.

"Bad half court offense?"

They lead the BE in conference games in points per possession, FG% and efficiency.  And this from a team that was 14th in the conference in 3PG%...that's pretty incredible IMO.  

Why are we trying to find every way possible to bad-mouth was was arguably Buzz's most successful team?  There was just one thing that team didn't do well...shoot from the outside.  Outside of that they were hardly a "bad offensive team."  

[Goose]

Terror


I think calling it a bad half court offense was a compliment. Love the team last year but painful to watch many games. We had two games with more turnovers than baskets scored. It was a great success last year and the half court offense had little to do with it. IMO you will see a far better brand of offense in upcoming season.

[GGGG]

Terror


I think calling it a bad half court offense was a compliment. Love the team last year but painful to watch many games. We had two games with more turnovers than baskets scored. It was a great success last year and the half court offense had little to do with it. IMO you will see a far better brand of offense in upcoming season.

Earlier you said that they weren't very good defensively...now you say that the half court offense had little to do with it...and we know they can't shoot.

So exactly how did this team win the Big East championship and get to the Elite 8???

And I think we should be a little careful about saying this team will have a "far better brand of offense" next year.  This is a team that has lost its starting PG and its leading scorer.  Honestly, I think next year's team will look a lot more like last year's team than people realize.

[Goose]

Terror


We won the BE and went to E8 because of a group of over achieving players. That coupled with Buzz's chip on the shoulder edge proved to be a huge success. Be careful about next year predictions of style? We have upgraded at PG BIG time, have a TRUE SG and added length. There is zero doubt in my mind that next years team will provide a far more entertaining and effective style on both sides of the court. I appreciate what last years team did, but often it was very hard on the eyes.

Last year the team went well past expectations of 99.9% of fans, let alone basketball experts. Fully comfortable saying last years team was not a great basketball team and more comfortable saying next years team will be very entertaining. Fast, athletic guys that can score trumps slow guys that cannot score.

[LAZER]

The key is where will the points come from, and I'd be amazed if any of the freshmen put up more than 5ppg, or if all together they add more than 10.  Where will points CEO from?
Center: 20ppg, 15 Gardner, 5 Otoule
PF: 13 ppg, Taylor 8, McKay 5
SF: 20ppg Anderson 5, Wilson 15
SG: 10 ppg mayo 5, jjj 5
PG: 5 ppg Wilson 2, Du Wilson 3

That's 68, what they averaged last year.  

You would really be "amazed" if Duane Wilson and Johnson average more than 5ppg???  With the minutes available at PG and SG, i expect them to do that no problem.

[GGGG]

We one the BE and went to E8 because of a group of over achieving players. That coupled with Buzz's chip on the shoulder edge proved to be a huge success.

You don't win basketball games by simply jogging onto the floor and playing better than people thought you would.  You win because you put the ball in the basket, and prevent the other team from doing the same.  At some point you have to look at *how* they managed to do that.  It isn't about hustle, chips on shoulders and over achievement.  Marquette won by relentlessly attacking the basket both in transition and in the half-court offense.  And despite all the turn-overs, was still pretty efficient considering they had little in the way of outside shooters.

Be careful about next year predictions of style? We have upgraded at PG BIG time, have a TRUE SG and added length. There is zero doubt in my mind that next years team will provide a far more entertaining and effective style on both sides of the court.

We've upgraded the PG "BIG time?"  We are replacing a two year starter with a back up who hasn't exactly looked stellar, and a freshman who hasn't played a minute of college basketball.  It very well could be argued that this position has actually been downgraded, much less upgraded...and way much less than "upgraded BIG time."

And who is the true SG we have?  Another freshman.

You are looking WAY too much at potential to base your judgements.

Last year the team went well past expectations of 99.9% of fans, let alone basketball experts. Fully comfortable saying last years team was not a great basketball team and more comfortable saying next years team will be very entertaining.

Again, last year's team was Buzz's most accomplished team.  So "not a great basketball team" compared to whom?  And I don't give a flying f*ck how "entertaining" some team is...I want them to win.  So yeah, Mo Acker's senior team was plenty "entertaining" because they shot so well, but in the end they were a first round flameout.

Fast, athletic guys that can score trumps slow guys that cannot score.

Sure.  But is this supposed to be a statement of next year's team v. last year's team?  If so, I think it is a very poor statement.  We have no idea if next year's team will be made up of "fast, athletic guys that can score," and last year's team certainly was not made up of "slow guys that cannot score."

[Goose]

Terror


Politely disagree with your idea of good basketball. One question, if we had Kentucky's recruiting class would you make expectations off potential? You have your idea of what makes a great team and I have mine. Will add if you think last years team had to do it over and they would be at E8 I think you are dillusional. Your comment on Acker's senior season is beyond crazy. Would hope you hold the programs talent level today a tad higher than Acker's senior season. As for PG, trust me Duane Wilson will be driving that bus and it will be in high gear.

[GGGG]

Politely disagree with your idea of good basketball.

So you would rather be "entertained" than win?

Will add if you think last years team had to do it over and they would be at E8 I think you are dillusional.

Why wouldn't they?  And why do you keep bad-mouthing Buzz's most accomplished team?  And arguably the second most accomplished Marquette team since 1977?

One question, if we had Kentucky's recruiting class would you make expectations off potential?

But we don't have Kentucky's recruiting class...that's my point.

Your comment on Acker's senior season is beyond crazy. Would hope you hold the programs talent level today a tad higher than Acker's senior season.

Then my point flew over your head.  I would rather win and advance more than watching a high scoring "entertaining" game.  I was simply comparing the success v. "entertainment" factor of the two respective teams.

As for PG, trust me Duane Wilson will be driving that bus and it will be in high gear.

I can see the "What is wrong with Duane Wilson??" posts already...

[Goose]

Terror

Trust me I LOVE winning.
Most accomplished team since 1977? Come on!!
What would our recruiting class rankings be if we were Kentucky? Every guy would be ranked much higher. Potential is potential.
I did not find Acker's team entertaining at all. Missed my point, you can be entertaining and still win. Think Louisville showed that.
This fan never had "What is wrong with Blue post" so doubt on the Wilson posts.

If you think I am bad mouthing Buzz or team you are off your rocker. That said, I do have pretty solid of our basketball history and feel confident in my appraisal of last year.

[GGGG]

If you think I am bad mouthing Buzz or team you are off your rocker.

Oh no?  From this very thread....

"MU did not have good defense last year, they had a bad offense that took up time."

"Fully comfortable saying last years team was not a great basketball team"

"Will add if you think last years team had to do it over and they would be at E8 I think you are dillusional."

[Goose]

Terror

Give me a break. I stated last year was huge success and kudo's to all involved. My comments on the team you posted would  be similar to my saying "my kid has a bad temper"...is that bad mouthing my kid? My comment on defense was based off you saying it was Buzz's best defensive team, which stat wise maybe correct but in reality the previous two seasons were better defensively.

[Lighthouse 84]

You two should get your own thread......

Buzz's most successful team last year?  Yes.  Buzz's most talented team last year?  No.  They don't have to be the same team.  But I'd rather watch the most successful team.  Hopefully it's also the most talented, but I don't want to watch the most talented team go up in flames in the first round of the NCAAs.  It's much more "entertaining" and much more rewarding to watch the team that is successful and that wins.

[Goose]

Litehouse


Agreed 100%. Terror would not be in top 30 posters I would want to share thread with, but sound advice!!

[Markusquette]

Yes, need your own thread.  Ha!  Sorry Goose, but I'm siding with Terror here.  But I am cautiously optimistic about the newcomers as well.  With that said, it doesn't matter what I think either. 

[GGGG]

My comment on defense was based off you saying it was Buzz's best defensive team, which stat wise maybe correct but in reality the previous two seasons were better defensively.

Actually, in looking at the stats, 2011-12 is the only one I would say was better.

2012-13, they were second in Opponents Efficiency, PPP, PPG and FG%.  All behind 2011-12.

[Galway Eagle]

I agree with Terror here, it kind of sounded like you were bad mouthing the idea of adapting a style of basketball to win. I found Acker's senior season team to be very fun to watch (though it's not Acker's team it was Hayward's). I agree that the most talented teams don't need to be the most successful the DJO/Crowder and Big 3 teams were definitely the most talented and yet neither reached their potential.  In the end I'd rather watch our team from last year go to the E8 over our fastest most talented teams flame out.  

[bilsu]

Terror

Trust me I LOVE winning.
Most accomplished team since 1977? Come on!!
What would our recruiting class rankings be if we were Kentucky? Every guy would be ranked much higher. Potential is potential.
I did not find Acker's team entertaining at all. Missed my point, you can be entertaining and still win. Think Louisville showed that.
This fan never had "What is wrong with Blue post" so doubt on the Wilson posts.

If you think I am bad mouthing Buzz or team you are off your rocker. That said, I do have pretty solid of our basketball history and feel confident in my appraisal of last year.

I could buy the argument that if MU class had signed with Kentucky, North Carolina, Kansas or Duke the players would have been ranked higher. However, that is fools gold, because as far as I know North Carolina, Kentucky, Kansas and Duke had no interest in any of our recruits or if they did they were plan C or D.  Kentucky signed 8 players all ranked significantly higher than JJJ.

[willie warrior]

Um, we had 39 points against Syracuse.  Had Gardner not tossed up a three with 19 seconds left, Marquette would have had, well, I'll let you do the math.....

Thanks for making my point. 39 or 46 demonstrates our offensive challenges, and we lost Blue's 14 plus another about 16 with Lockett and Cadougan.

We will need to score much more to go further and IMO the newbies will need to make up a lot of that, because I don't believe that Otule, Anderson, Thomas and De. Wilson will upgrade much in scoring. Hope they prove that wrong.

[bilsu]

Thanks for making my point. 39 or 46 demonstrates our offensive challenges, and we lost Blue's 14 plus another about 16 with Lockett and Cadougan.

We will need to score much more to go further and IMO the newbies will need to make up a lot of that, because I don't believe that Otule, Anderson, Thomas and De. Wilson will upgrade much in scoring. Hope they prove that wrong.

One of the reasons we scored so little agianst Syracuse is that we were not agressive enough. There were to many times in that game where we were forcing up bad shots, because the 35 second clock was running out. Sure the defense had a lot to do with it, but we could of taken better bad shots before the ones we ended up taking.

[GGGG]

One of the reasons we scored so little agianst Syracuse is that we were not agressive enough. There were to many times in that game where we were forcing up bad shots, because the 35 second clock was running out. Sure the defense had a lot to do with it, but we could of taken better bad shots before the ones we ended up taking.

And this was the same MU team that scored 74 against the same Syracuse team just a few weeks earlier. 

[brandx]

Back to your original statement:  "And 68 did not get us to the next level."  That is factually incorrect.

Marquette PPG under Buzz:

2012-13: 68 (E8)
2011-12: 75 (S16)
2010-11: 75 (S16)
2009-10: 73 (64)
2008-09: 78!!! (32)

So 68 ppg actually *did* get us to the next level.  Huh.  I have a theory on that...it's called "defense."  You can win basketball games many ways.  And Buzz's best defensive team got him further than he has ever gone as coach.

And back to the original topic, the freshmen will play when they show they can defend.  

Exactly. Buzz always talks about being able to trust the guys he puts on the floor. He is not saying he wants to trust their jump shot.

He wants to be confident that they will be in proper position and defend well.

[brewcity77]

Boy, you'd think that a team making the Elite 8 would lead their fans to realize that they were better than people expected, including us. We didn't luck our way into it. We didn't back into it. We shared the Big East title because we took it. Because we were unbeatable at home and because we won some games away from home. We didn't get to the Elite 8 because we were lucky, we got there because against Davidson the shots finally fell in the final minute. If we shoot our average from 3, we wouldn't have needed a last minute comeback. We beat Butler because we were tougher and better. And we took a Miami team that many had as their trendy national title pick out behind the woodshed.

Why is it everyone still thinks this team wasn't very good? This was all just guys playing hard? No, they finally played to their potential, then had an awful game against Syracuse. It happens. It happened to Syracuse when they only scored 39 against Georgetown in the season finale.

Vander Blue was an all-conference player. Jamil Wilson is really good. Trent Lockett was a mini-Crowder in the way he did everything on the court. Gardner is a beast. Otule is so much better than everyone thought not just on defense but also on offense. And yet still we hear it was effort. Give me a break. This team was very, very good. This team had numerous future pros. I'd guess we had 2-3 future NBA players and more pros that will play around the world. Give this team some damn credit. Maybe it was 2 months ago, but they sure as hell earned it. Especially from their own "fans".