Urlacher Retires

[ATWizJr]

Sam Huff, Tommy Nobis, Bill George.

[GGGG]

Sam Huff, Tommy Nobis, Bill George.

None of these three were better than Urlacher...even when compensating for their era.

[jmayer1]

Matthews is a great pass-rusher but that's all he does. Urlacher is twice the all-around LB.

Based on what criteria?

Over their first 4 years Matthews blows away Urlacher in sacks as that's what he is asked to do in the Packers scheme, while Urlacher blows away Matthews in tackles as that's what he was asked to do in the Bears scheme. They are very similar in other statistics (forced fumbles, fumbles recovered, interceptions, passes defensed).

[keefe]

Sam Huff, Tommy Nobis, Bill George.

Willie Lanier, Chuck Bednarik, Jack Lambert.

[🏀]

I by an large will agree with you regarding the Cover 2.

But Brian Urlacher was WAY better than Mike Singletary.  IMO there was no player that benefited more from the talent around him than Singletary.  A great defensive line in front of him, and two very good LBs on either side of him.  He didn't have to do much to have an impact.  Put it this way...Urlacher could have easily replicated what Singletary did and probably done more due to his speed.  Not a chance that Singletary could have done what Urlacher did.

He's not "elite," and he's not first-ballot due to Lewis retiring, but he is a HOFer. 

+1.

Mike Singletary wasn't even one of the top 3 players on the '85 defense. He was a good player, but his legend is in the eyes, not the on-field talent.

[MerrittsMustache]

Based on what criteria?

Over their first 4 years Matthews blows away Urlacher in sacks as that's what he is asked to do in the Packers scheme, while Urlacher blows away Matthews in tackles as that's what he was asked to do in the Bears scheme. They are very similar in other statistics (forced fumbles, fumbles recovered, interceptions, passes defensed).

Based on the criteria that Urlacher does every else better than Matthews.

[Hards Alumni]

Based on what criteria?

Over their first 4 years Matthews blows away Urlacher in sacks as that's what he is asked to do in the Packers scheme, while Urlacher blows away Matthews in tackles as that's what he was asked to do in the Bears scheme. They are very similar in other statistics (forced fumbles, fumbles recovered, interceptions, passes defensed).

As a Packers fan, I can't believe you are making this comparison.  Why not just start comparing Ronnie Lott to Darrelle Revis too?

[jmayer1]

Based on the criteria that Urlacher does every else better than Matthews.

Except rush the quarterback, defend passes, force fumbles, or score defensive touchdowns. But Urlacher does everything else other than that better than Matthews.

[jmayer1]

As a Packers fan, I can't believe you are making this comparison.  Why not just start comparing Ronnie Lott to Darrelle Revis too?

Merrit started the comparison. Not sure why you would compare a cover corner to a guy known primarily as a safety.

[GGGG]

Except rush the quarterback, defend passes, force fumbles, or score defensive touchdowns. But Urlacher does everything else other than that better than Matthews.

Good grief.  Urlacher is one of the best linebackers of all time when defending the pass.  He has 22 INTs and 85 passes defended in 13 years.  Matthews has 4 INTs and 22 passes defended in four years. 

[MerrittsMustache]

Merrit started the comparison. Not sure why you would compare a cover corner to a guy known primarily as a safety.

Actually, Blackheart started the comparison by saying that both guys were "playmakers" but the Cover-2 took away a lot of Urlacher's big play ability.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Actually, Blackheart started the comparison by saying that both guys were "playmakers" but the Cover-2 took away a lot of Urlacher's big play ability.

Agree....my point is Lovie made Urlacher a glorified Middle Linebacker Safety, which the stats show he did with HOF numbers.  My other main point is I feel he would have been a first ballot HOFer in a system that put him in play more often at the line of scrimmage like Matthews.  Would love to see tackles for no gain/loss for these greats, and maybe that would clarify things.

Btw, the Urlacher Bears were 6-18 versus their main division rival, without much pressure being applied on the opposing QB's (and yes, with crappy Bear offenses).  Ugh...

[keefe]

Sam Huff, Tommy Nobis, Bill George.

Tom

Back in the day Tommy Nobis was an animal. It is a sin he has not made his way to Canton. He won the Outland and Maxwell and was named to SI's All-Century Team.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

Funniest joke I heard on this topic: Jay Cutler threw a retirement party for Brian Urlacher. It was intercepted and returned for a touchdown.

[ATWizJr]

None of these three were better than Urlacher...even when compensating for their era.

ah, youth.

[Hards Alumni]

ah, youth.

ah, nostalgia

[keefe]

ah, nostalgia

Ah, close-minded bliss

[Hards Alumni]

Ah, close-minded bliss

Its not closed minded.  Those guys were great for their age.  They wouldn't last two seconds in the NFL of today.  Today, the best athletes in the world play football.  Back in the early years of the NFL (Pre-1970s) you can't say the same thing.  I realize that a lot of people like to remember the 'glory years' of football as tough and gritty... they were; but you can't compare the competition from early football to the players of today.

[keefe]

Its not closed minded.  Those guys were great for their age.  They wouldn't last two seconds in the NFL of today.  Today, the best athletes in the world play football.  Back in the early years of the NFL (Pre-1970s) you can't say the same thing.  I realize that a lot of people like to remember the 'glory years' of football as tough and gritty... they were; but you can't compare the competition from early football to the players of today.

Rather obtuse thinking. Capt Robin Olds became a double ace flying P-38's and P-52's in WWII. He later became a triple ace flying Phantoms in Vietnam. Same pilot, different eras. He adapted to advances in technology, war fighting doctrine, and combat tactics. I am confident that Ray Nitschke would have embraced advances in sports technology, medicine, training, and diet and been the same stellar competitor.

[MU82]

I'm not a Bears fan and never have rooted for Urlacher. However, I do acknowledge his skills. It certainly shouldn't be held against him that Lovie Smith created a defense to best take advantage of his strengths. Maximizing personnel to put each player in the best position to succeed is a coach's No. 1 job. To say that should minimize Urlacher's legacy is like saying Lawrence Taylor wasn't an all-time great because Parcells put him in position to get lots of sacks. The player still has to deliver, and, when healthy, Urlacher did.

As for players of yesteryear being able to compete today, certainly many couldn't have because of size, speed or other disadvantages. Offensive linemen spring to mind; not all that long ago, those guys used to play at 220-260 pounds.

Still, folks should be careful when making generalizations. If you think Jim Brown and Dick Butkus wouldn't excel right now, you don't know a thing about sports. In addition, maybe a great yesteryear lineman such as Ron Yary (a 255-pound OT for the Vikings in the 60s and 70s) would have incorporated today's training techniques to be a fast, agile 315-pounder.

[keefe]

.

As for players of yesteryear being able to compete today, certainly many couldn't have because of size, speed or other disadvantages. Offensive linemen spring to mind; not all that long ago, those guys used to play at 220-260 pounds.

Still, folks should be careful when making generalizations. If you think Jim Brown and Dick Butkus wouldn't excel right now, you don't know a thing about sports. In addition, maybe a great yesteryear lineman such as Ron Yary (a 255-pound OT for the Vikings in the 60s and 70s) would have incorporated today's training techniques to be a fast, agile 315-pounder.

My friend Keith Bishop was John Elway's LT (in fact his son is named John Elway Bishop!) When Keith got to the NFL his playing weight ballooned to 280 and he was lifting 50% more than he ever did before. After he retired his weight dropped significantly and he now weighs around 220. Keith did what every lineman began doing in the '80's and continue to do today. The dramatic increase in size and speed is attributable to advances in training, technology, sports medicine, diet, and "supplements." Of these the most effective was the latter, especially when synchronized with all of those other factors.

The guys who played ball before the '80's would also experience increases in size, speed, stamina, and agility is afforded the same advantages of contemporary athletes. We should not be naïve about this.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

My neighbor played on the DL for the undefeated Miami team and, if you saw him today, I doubt he goes 220.

[keefe]

My neighbor played on the DL for the undefeated Miami team and, if you saw him today, I doubt he goes 220.

Amazing how the "candy" inflates your numbers...