[Paint Touches] NBA Scout: Blue can be a 'poor man's Tony Allen'

[Dreadman24]

Name the players on George Mason's Final Four team?  A brand is built on repeatable success and interest.  Michael Jordan is a part of UNC's brand, he is not THE brand even at UNC.  Same with Marquette and Wade.  Nonsense to think otherwise.

When I think of UNC I think of Jordan. Same as when people think of Marquette they think of D. Wade.

[Dr. Blackheart]

When I think of UNC I think of Jordan. Same as when people think of Marquette they think of D. Wade.

I also think of Dean Smith and Walter Davis and Vince Carter and Maurice Lucas and Dean Meminger and Al McGuire...and Rick Majerus and Doc Rivers, and Roy Williams and Tyler Hansbrough.  And Buzz Williams and Jimmy Butler.

Crean was right when he said "It's Indiana, It's Indiana".  He then went to trying to jumpstart recruiting by snuggling up to Wade then, but I said it would backfire at the time as the alums will eventually want to see the IU brand restored with IU stars, not other schools'. 

So, what does Crean do?  He tries to put up his own banner to establish the Tom Crean Brand. And it backfired big time as IU fell flat, and now he is exposed to criticism because of it. Dumb long-term branding moves when CTC had it right to start with I4.

[MU82]

Draft Express today re Vander:

www.draftexpress.com/article/Trending-Prospects-Vander-Blue-4173

This is a comprehensive, accurate view of Vander, from all of his strengths, right down to the call that he's a borderline prospect.

My only nit was in this line: "He has very little finishing ability with his off hand, however ... "

Over the course of the season, Vander's left-handed layups became very reliable -- capped by a most memorable, impressive, buzzer-beating shot over a 6-10 guy from Davidson!

[WarriorInNYC]

I feel as though several people here are arguing two different things.

Crean did help build the brand of the MU bball program.  Correct.  The brand of the program would not be where it is without him.  But he really has nothing to do with the brand of the "Marquette player" as we are seeing now save for the fact that he did hire Buzz.  The brand we are talking about now refers the physical switchables who play aggressive (Crowder, Butler, Wes, etc.).  I dont think this brand applies to current MU NBA players Novak and Wade, mostly because they did not play under Buzz.

Additionally, when it comes to the brand of the program, I think it really depends who you talk to.  If someone asks where I went to school and they were around in the 70's and so on, the instant reply is "you guys had that head coach..." sometimes they remember Al's name right away, or if I mention it they light up.  Today's younger generation knows it as where D-Wade went.  I do agree not many know the school where Wes, Jimmy, Novak, and co. went, yet. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Name the players on George Mason's Final Four team? 

Wasn't there some guy named Jai (spelled like that)?  Ok, that's all I got.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  The last few years under Buzz, MU has developed a brand that goes beyond Wade and the Final Four. 

The recent UCLA transfer, Allerik Freeman, was labelled a "Marquette-type wing" player.  People who follow college basketball know exactly what that means.  A long, athletic wing that attacks the basket and plays with intensity.  That brand didn't exist before Buzz.

Furthermore, you have studio hosts like Barkley going on and on about Buzz and how hard Marquette plays.

*That* is a brand.  That brand extends to the players that have gone to the pros under Buzz.  Even if you could go somehow from the Deane era straight to the Buzz era, that brand would still exist now.  Crean had nothing to do with this current brand of MU basketball...outside of the fact that he brought Buzz here.

And I'm not a Crean hater.

You're missing the point I think on what the discussion.  This was about when it "the brand" re-STARTED...I never said it hasn't been leveraged even further in the last few years.  Quite the contrary.  My point, which remains, is the brand kicked off with the Final Four and Wade.  That was the defining kickoff moment.  That was the moment that casual fans said "Marquette" for the first time in years.  This is also why I used my Fox Sports One example from Tuesday night's hockey game.  We all know we went to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8, but most casual fans have no idea.  You become a viable brand when you are recognized by the masses.  Wade has helped us further that brand, obviously so has the performance the last few years (but not to the casual fan), but the Final Four was THE MOMENT to restart the brand nationally that we lost after Al left.  The last few years didn't start it, the Final Four did and that was entirely my point.

And for those understating the Wade brand, I can only laugh.   The proof is in our actions.  We leverage Wade often, in our business decisions, marketing decisions, etc.  We do it to this day still.  Whether it is taking out full page ads in the USA Today to congratulate the Miami Heat on a world title, whether it is switching from Converse to Nike, whether it is reporting on Wade coming back to campus (yes, we do this for other players, too, but it doesn't come close to the media value that Wade brings).  Wade's impact today on Marquette is still felt and that is terrific.  MU should leverage it because of who he is.  He and the Final Four started the new brand for MU basketball excellence and what can be achieved.


http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/51040212.html

http://www.marquette.edu/magazine/recent.php?subaction=showfull&id=1254346269

http://midwestballers.com/?p=2217

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1583821-how-dwyane-wade-and-marquette-helped-launch-the-mid-major-revolution

[MerrittsMustache]

You're missing the point I think on what the discussion.  This was about when it "the brand" re-STARTED...I never said it hasn't been leveraged even further in the last few years.  Quite the contrary.  My point, which remains, is the brand kicked off with the Final Four and Wade.  That was the defining kickoff moment.  That was the moment that casual fans said "Marquette" for the first time in years.  This is also why I used my Fox Sports One example from Tuesday night's hockey game.  We all know we went to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8, but most casual fans have no idea.  You become a viable brand when you are recognized by the masses.  Wade has helped us further that brand, obviously so has the performance the last few years (but not to the casual fan), but the Final Four was THE MOMENT to restart the brand nationally that we lost after Al left.  The last few years didn't start it, the Final Four did and that was entirely my point.

And for those understating the Wade brand, I can only laugh.   The proof is in our actions.  We leverage Wade often, in our business decisions, marketing decisions, etc.  We do it to this day still.  Whether it is taking out full page ads in the USA Today to congratulate the Miami Heat on a world title, whether it is switching from Converse to Nike, whether it is reporting on Wade coming back to campus (yes, we do this for other players, too, but it doesn't come close to the media value that Wade brings).  Wade's impact today on Marquette is still felt and that is terrific.  MU should leverage it because of who he is.  He and the Final Four started the new brand for MU basketball excellence and what can be achieved.


http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/51040212.html

http://www.marquette.edu/magazine/recent.php?subaction=showfull&id=1254346269

http://midwestballers.com/?p=2217

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1583821-how-dwyane-wade-and-marquette-helped-launch-the-mid-major-revolution

You could make an NFL team's secondary with those back-peddling skills.

[Lennys Tap]

This is also why I used my Fox Sports One example from Tuesday night's hockey game.  We all know we went to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8, but most casual fans have no idea.  You become a viable brand when you are recognized by the masses. 

Anybody who has no idea of the teams in the Sweet 16 or the Elite 8 is not a college basketball fan, casual or otherwise.

[GGGG]

You could make an NFL team's secondary with those back-peddling skills.

Well, it's either that or admit he was wrong about something.

[GGGG]

You're missing the point I think on what the discussion.  This was about when it "the brand" re-STARTED...I never said it hasn't been leveraged even further in the last few years.  Quite the contrary.  My point, which remains, is the brand kicked off with the Final Four and Wade. 

The current brand with regards to Marquette basketball has nothing to do with the Final Four era.

[Goose]

MU's brand today is completely different appeal than the FF era. Inner city folks are identifying with the program and Buzz in different way and younger people as well. IMO our brand is more Oregon football tha anything else. We are becoming more flashy and think that people are enjoying this brand in different manner. Would think that our appeal is highest level than it has been in years.

[4everwarriors]

No. Wade!  Crean has to win championships before he can put schools on the map. Players just have to be superstars on the court. Example: Stephan Curry. Who cared about Davidson before him?

Well, in that case:
Marquette, the school that put Crean on the map.

[Dr. Blackheart]

So Cheeks, is DirectTV's brand about Captain Kirk, Beyonce, the Genie, the Russian Mafia guy or Charlie Sheen? Or something else?  I say Charlie Sheen.

[Spotcheck Billy]

still surprised that DirecTV advetises the Genie but never used this image - esp. since they used to use actual film clips in ads

[ChicosBailBonds]

Name the players on George Mason's Final Four team?  A brand is built on repeatable success and interest.  Michael Jordan is a part of UNC's brand, he is not THE brand even at UNC.  Same with Marquette and Wade.  Nonsense to think otherwise.

If you were to ask people, casual fans (which is where a brand resonates), name the single most memorable moment in Marquette basketball in the last 20 years...or name the single person you associate with Marquette the last 20 years, what would it be?

I'd bet my life's savings it would be Final Four and Dwyane Wade for those two answers.   That's what restarted the brand...it was then continued with success from the three amigos, the Buzz tenure, some guys going to the NBA and doing well there.  But let's not kid ourselves, 99% of casual fans have no idea where Jimmy Butler went to school, or Lazar Hayward or Steve Novak.  A lot of fans know where Wade went to school.

This is inescapable.

[ChicosBailBonds]

still surprised that DirecTV advetises the Genie but never used this image - esp. since they used to use actual film clips in ads

Those were ad campaigns from yesteryear, a lot of fun to do...Tommy Boy was one....we needed to freshen it up with the new product, keep that brand awareness going.  Believe me, it was one of many ideas to bring Jeannie into this, but many ideas don't make it to production.  We're pretty good at that over the years and have made a bunch of memorable stuff and won a number of awards over the years.  Fun stuff, great agencies. 

[Galway Eagle]

If you were to ask people, casual fans (which is where a brand resonates), name the single most memorable moment in Marquette basketball in the last 20 years...or name the single person you associate with Marquette the last 20 years, what would it be?

I'd bet my life's savings it would be Final Four and Dwyane Wade for those two answers.   That's what restarted the brand...it was then continued with success from the three amigos, the Buzz tenure, some guys going to the NBA and doing well there.  But let's not kid ourselves, 99% of casual fans have no idea where Jimmy Butler went to school, or Lazar Hayward or Steve Novak.  A lot of fans know where Wade went to school.

This is inescapable.

Seeing as every game Jimmy plays defending against Wade or Matthews or Jae or anybody the announcers always talk about how it's a Marquette on Marquette matchup, I'm going to say they know.  Beyond that I have a comment to an earlier comment of yours.  People do remember sweet16s if they didn't then Xavier wouldn't be talked about as having tremendous success in the NCAA tournament these past few years.  You can barely turn on the TV during a game with X on where they don't mention "well Xavier has made 4 of the last 6 sweet 16s"

Beyond that I once again reiterate that the brand is different.  Would you say that the brand of MU ball stayed the same from Al McGuire to Hank Raymonds?  What about O'Neil to Mike Deane?  Both those we went from successful to a new coach who had success.  I'd say it was different.  Same thing here Crean had his own brand of MU ball but it's rebranded with Buzz.  It's more about toughness than it was before, I never heard of MU ball being called the toughest team in the early amigos era or anybody say that about the 02 and 03 years. Yet every year Buzz has been here we get more and more known for being tough and physical. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Seeing as every game Jimmy plays defending against Wade or Matthews or Jae or anybody the announcers always talk about how it's a Marquette on Marquette matchup, I'm going to say they know.  Beyond that I have a comment to an earlier comment of yours.  People do remember sweet16s if they didn't then Xavier wouldn't be talked about as having tremendous success in the NCAA tournament these past few years.  You can barely turn on the TV during a game with X on where they don't mention "well Xavier has made 4 of the last 6 sweet 16s"

Beyond that I once again reiterate that the brand is different.  Would you say that the brand of MU ball stayed the same from Al McGuire to Hank Raymonds?  What about O'Neil to Mike Deane?  Both those we went from successful to a new coach who had success.  I'd say it was different.  Same thing here Crean had his own brand of MU ball but it's rebranded with Buzz.  It's more about toughness than it was before, I never heard of MU ball being called the toughest team in the early amigos era or anybody say that about the 02 and 03 years. Yet every year Buzz has been here we get more and more known for being tough and physical. 

That's a sliver, a tiny sliver.  How many times do those teams play each other?  How many casual fans bother to watch those games?  I can tell you Laker fans out here, have no clue where Jimmy Butler went.  Neither do Clipper fans or Suns fans or Rockets fans, etc, etc.  It's such a tiny sliver.  It would be like you knowing where did Steve Blake play or Chauncey Billups on the Clippers.  I'm sure Maryland fans and some fans will know Blake went to Maryland, but most don't know or care.  Nor do most know or care where Billups went or most other starters. 

I had some Laker fans the other day ask me if I was rooting for the Heat in the series because Wade played for the Heat.  Again, an example of them knowing Wade went to MU and I'm an MU guy.  I said to them, why not the Bulls and Jimmy Butler...he went to MU.  They had absolutely no idea.  There are special players that everyone knows that can carry a brand...maybe someday Butler gets there, but Wes, Jimmy, Steve, Lazar, etc aren't those type of household names, especially when you get outside 100 miles from Chicago and Milwaukee where people pay attention to it.