[Paint Touches] NBA Scout: Blue can be a 'poor man's Tony Allen'

[PaintTouches]

http://painttouches.com/2013/05/13/nba-scout-blue-can-be-a-poor-mans-tony-allen/

We were able to talk to an NBA scout who believes Vander Blue's prime comparison in the NBA would be Tony Allen. After comparing their college numbers, that analysis seems quite strong.

[Eldon]

Absolutely awesome article. Thanks for the read.

[Lennys Tap]

"The next few Marquette talents have a lot to be grateful for as Wes (Mathews), (Jimmy) Butler and Jae (Crowder) have all established a brand name for the type of PERSON and player Marquette produces."

Marquette is a brand again - for the first time since the late 70s - and a very positive one at that.

[GGGG]

"When asked whether Iman Shumpert would be a good comparison, the scout flatly rejected it, saying it was too optimistic."

LOL...another reason I am not a NBA scout.

[77ncaachamps]

More of a reason to root for the Grizzlies: the longer they go in the playoffs, the more exposure it is for Tony Allen (who was already a heralded defender in Boston), the better it is for Vander and the comparison made to Allen.

[MU82]

Vander could do a lot, lot worse. Tony Allen has been a solid NBA contributor for a decade. He was a valuable member of the Celtics' most recent title team and is very valuable for an outstanding Grizzlies team. Oh, and he's a very wealthy man.

As I always say when talking about this kind of stuff:

We'll see.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

If at some point Vander finds himself in possession of a 2 year/$6.3M contract he will prove all the doubters, including myself, very, very wrong.

[ChicosBailBonds]

"The next few Marquette talents have a lot to be grateful for as Wes (Mathews), (Jimmy) Butler and Jae (Crowder) have all established a brand name for the type of PERSON and player Marquette produces."

Marquette is a brand again - for the first time since the late 70s - and a very positive one at that.

Started about 10 years ago

[Lennys Tap]

Started about 10 years ago

Crean (like O'Neill) moved us in the right direction but we're only now becoming a brand again.

[MUHoopsFan2]

"When asked whether Iman Shumpert would be a good comparison, the scout flatly rejected it, saying it was too optimistic."

LOL...another reason I am not a NBA scout.

LOL hell no. Tony Allen!? Remember that they said "a poor man's version of Tony Allen." And neither one of them can shoot. I thought he was supposed to be a point guard?

Vander is nowhere near Tony Allen in any way shape or form. This scout is just throwing out a name. Allen is more physical.

But he did say a 'poor man's  version. I think he could end up being a bit like Avery Bradley though. Which is nice...

[joe pop]

LOL hell no. Tony Allen!? Remember that they said "a poor man's version of Tony Allen." And neither one of them can shoot. I thought he was supposed to be a point guard?

Vander is nowhere near Tony Allen in any way shape or form. This scout is just throwing out a name. Allen is more physical.

But he did say a 'poor man's  version. I think he could end up being a bit like Avery Bradley though. Which is nice...

Avery Bradley is pretty damn generous too, remember he was the number 1 player coming out of high school a couple years back and played just one college season, plus he's a true PG

[Nukem2]

Draft Express today re Vander:

www.draftexpress.com/article/Trending-Prospects-Vander-Blue-4173

[WarriorFan]

Tony Allen = fringe NBA player / one skill player
Poor man's Tony Allen = not an NBA player!

Problem here is someone's told Vander he's a poor man's Russell Westbrook.

[Lennys Tap]

Tony Allen = fringe NBA player / one skill player
Poor man's Tony Allen = not an NBA player!

Problem here is someone's told Vander he's a poor man's Russell Westbrook.

I wouldn't call a 9 year vet who plays 27 minutes a game a fringe NBA player - especially one who has led the entire NBA in steals per game and made the all NBA defensive 2nd team.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Crean (like O'Neill) moved us in the right direction but we're only now becoming a brand again.

In your opinion, but I'd say the strongest brand statement we made was in 2003 and it's repeated often when Mr. Wade takes the court.  We have continued to build on that brand with various successes, but it started in 2003....that was the break through moment.

Gonzaga had their defining moment, Butler had theirs, MU had it and lost it and got it back...it's all about building on it now.

KO didn't build the brand...KO helped to prevent it from going extinct...threw it a lifeline.  If anything, leaving MU for a women's basketball school and crapping on MU in the media every chance he got hardly helped to build MU's brand.

[Sunbelt15]

Tony Allen = fringe NBA player / one skill player
Poor man's Tony Allen = not an NBA player!

Problem here is someone's told Vander he's a poor man's Russell Westbrook.

Funny. It's all about Vander finding the right system. He needs a up-tempo offense. A half court offense will expose is shooting ability IF it doesn't improve. Still think he's a better shooter than Tony Allen.

[Galway Eagle]

In your opinion, but I'd say the strongest brand statement we made was in 2003 and it's repeated often when Mr. Wade takes the court.  We have continued to build on that brand with various successes, but it started in 2003....that was the break through moment.

Gonzaga had their defining moment, Butler had theirs, MU had it and lost it and got it back...it's all about building on it now.

KO didn't build the brand...KO helped to prevent it from going extinct...threw it a lifeline.  If anything, leaving MU for a women's basketball school and crapping on MU in the media every chance he got hardly helped to build MU's brand.

I disagree that puts too much stock in a single tournament run. I think that the brand has was somewhat rebuilt during the 90s, even in 95 an NIT championship appearance is a fairly successful year compared to where we were in the 80s and pre 93.

I think it's arguable that the modern MU brand began in 02, and began it's transition to a powerhouse under Buzz.  Being ranked is nice (Crean) but making it out of the first weekend 1 of 6 times isn't the modern brand.  The modern brand is making it out of the first weekend 3 of 5 times whether ranked or not (Buzz). 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I disagree that puts too much stock in a single tournament run. I think that the brand has was somewhat rebuilt during the 90s, even in 95 an NIT championship appearance is a fairly successful year compared to where we were in the 80s and pre 93.

I think it's arguable that the modern MU brand began in 02, and began it's transition to a powerhouse under Buzz.  Being ranked is nice (Crean) but making it out of the first weekend 1 of 6 times isn't the modern brand.  The modern brand is making it out of the first weekend 3 of 5 times whether ranked or not (Buzz). 

Let's be honest, most people don't remember Sweet 16 runs.  Case in point, and this should scare you guys. I was at the Kings-Sharks game last night with someone from Fox Sports One.  Now mind you, this is the network that will be carrying our games starting this year.  We were talking college sports and got to Marquette and he asked...."how did you guys do this year?".  This is a sports executive that is going to carry our games.

People remember Final Fours, the standard, casual fan.  They don't remember Sweet 16's, they just don't.  We all do on this board, but to be a "brand", you have to meet the masses, otherwise you're just niche.

When people come to my office they see all the Marquette stuff and I'll bet you 8 out of 10 times they say the same thing.  "Marquette...where Wade went to school".  That's what they know MU as...the common basketball fan out here that knows we went that far and produced a great talent.  They aren't saying, "wow...three straight Sweet 16's".    We're too myopic on this board here to view things through our tiny lens of the world. 

[4everwarriors]

Marquette, the school Crean put on the map.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Chicos - you're insane. Wade did not make Marquette a "brand." The poster was talking about "brand" in terms of a type of player that we put out...a Matthews, a Crowder, a Butler...something NBA people can identify with. Wade is no more a "brand" of player that we put out than Travis Diener. Is he a hall of fame player? Of course! So is Robert Parrish and I don't think Centenary was using him as the type of player they were putting out. The bizarre thing is that I think you know that but in your desperation to keep things focused on a total and complete jackass you throw out ridiculous strawman arguments just to be a douche bag.

[Sunbelt15]

Marquette, the school Crean put on the map.

No. Wade!  Crean has to win championships before he can put schools on the map. Players just have to be superstars on the court. Example: Stephan Curry. Who cared about Davidson before him?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos - you're insane. Wade did not make Marquette a "brand." The poster was talking about "brand" in terms of a type of player that we put out...a Matthews, a Crowder, a Butler...something NBA people can identify with. Wade is no more a "brand" of player that we put out than Travis Diener. Is he a hall of fame player? Of course! So is Robert Parrish and I don't think Centenary was using him as the type of player they were putting out. The bizarre thing is that I think you know that but in your desperation to keep things focused on a total and complete jackass you throw out ridiculous strawman arguments just to be a douche bag.

Did Centenary go to the Final Four?  Does Centenary have a brand that is nationally known for hoops?   No.  I thought we were talking about what got the brand started...please go back and read and not be such a jackass and a douchebag.

Do you think most people in this country know where Jimmy Butler went to school?  No.  Do most people know where Jae Crowder went?  No.  Novak?  No.  Diener?  No.  If you paid attention, I was talking about the Final Four being the turning point where the brand was recreated and then built on since with the work of Buzz, Crean, and the various successes of the players and teams.  But the Final Four is what established things again from a branding perspective.

[GGGG]

Chicos, I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  The last few years under Buzz, MU has developed a brand that goes beyond Wade and the Final Four. 

The recent UCLA transfer, Allerik Freeman, was labelled a "Marquette-type wing" player.  People who follow college basketball know exactly what that means.  A long, athletic wing that attacks the basket and plays with intensity.  That brand didn't exist before Buzz.

Furthermore, you have studio hosts like Barkley going on and on about Buzz and how hard Marquette plays.

*That* is a brand.  That brand extends to the players that have gone to the pros under Buzz.  Even if you could go somehow from the Deane era straight to the Buzz era, that brand would still exist now.  Crean had nothing to do with this current brand of MU basketball...outside of the fact that he brought Buzz here.

And I'm not a Crean hater.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Name the players on George Mason's Final Four team?  A brand is built on repeatable success and interest.  Michael Jordan is a part of UNC's brand, he is not THE brand even at UNC.  Same with Marquette and Wade.  Nonsense to think otherwise.

[Lennys Tap]

2003 was magical, a perfect storm season with a once in a lifetime player, but one season (out of 9) does not a brand make. When 4 tournament wins are bookended by 3 with none and 4 with only one it's more like a fluke (see George Mason). Five straight tournament appearances, 7 tourney wins in the last 3 years with his own players, scouts identifying "Marquette type" players, analysts repeating the "nobody plays harder than Marquette" mantra and NBA coaches praising the type of person/player MU sends them - that's the stuff that brands are made of.