Marquette University adopts vision to raise its profile

[keefe]

but then where would th Deja Vu in Yipsilati get their dancers from?

Bring back FFP

What is the correlation between EMU coeds dancing at Deja Vu in Ypsi and Marquette bringing back FFP?

[real chili 83]

The Vu is just up the road from ND.  Just take M60 north through Edwardswurg, and you arent far from....a few ND grads 

Speaking of Edwardsburg, home of Lunkers.  Great bait and tackle shop.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

look at NW Wisconsin for an example of too many schools in a close proximity.  Stout, River falls and Eau Claire(?) are within something like 25 miles of each other. 

Stout gets a bad rap--when it doubt....---, but it really is Wisconsin Tech (ala Virginia Tech). 

[real chili 83]

Zig,

Uwec is a very good school.  Not easy to get into.

Stout has some good, well recruited programs.

UWRF, same story.

Might as well throw in UWS too.

Just happen to know a UWS grad who became pres of a very big company.

Not trying to bag on you.....lots of smaller UW....who have produced top notch citizens and leaders.  Too bad they got lousy BBall teams. 

[keefe]

look at NW Wisconsin for an example of too many schools in a close proximity.  Stout, River falls and Eau Claire(?) are within something like 25 miles of each other.  

Stout gets a bad rap--when it doubt....---, but it really is Wisconsin Tech (ala Virginia Tech).  

You can major in Welding Technology at Stout. Sounds like the ITT Tech of the UW System.

Looking at the curriculum confirms this should not be a 4 year university. And that the Wisconsin tax payers, already howling in pain, have to pay for 3 separate University infrastructures within a 25 mile foot print is an outrage. The private sector would look at this and say this is fixed cost leverage screaming to happen. How brutally stupid.   

[GGGG]

look at NW Wisconsin for an example of too many schools in a close proximity.  Stout, River falls and Eau Claire(?) are within something like 25 miles of each other. 

Stout gets a bad rap--when it doubt....---, but it really is Wisconsin Tech (ala Virginia Tech). 

Not really.  Stout does not have a full engineering curriculum.  The closest thing to Virginia Tech in Wisconsin is actually UW-Madison.  Both Stout and Platteville have some engineering programs, but are more like amped up technology programs.

[Marquette Gyros]

look at NW Wisconsin for an example of too many schools in a close proximity.  Stout, River falls and Eau Claire(?) are within something like 25 miles of each other. 

Stout gets a bad rap--when it doubt....---, but it really is Wisconsin Tech (ala Virginia Tech). 

You guys are missing that these schools aren't set up to serve WI, necessarily... Due to tuition reciprocity and proximity, a really good percentage of students are middle of the graduating class from MN.  The Twin Cities have sprawled so much that River Falls is a suburb (a ton of kids live at home in the east metro and commute to RF), and Stout/UWEC are perfect suitcase distance.

[Eldon]

And to our respective points, would not these students be better served honing practical skills in a structured vocational track rather than wasting two years getting a meaningless Associate's Degree in Marketing?

Plus one quadrillion!

In my opinion, vocational programs and trade schools have a social stigma to them.  It is widely believed that knowledge-how is inferior to knowledge-that--practical knowledge< factual knowledge and I wish this perception would change. 

I get that we are a service-oriented economy, but it is my understanding that there are job openings for positions like machinists in places like south carolina and mississippi where labor is relatively cheap.  However, these positions go unfilled because there is a lack of qualified individuals.  Why?  I think it's partly because people don't think that you can make a living going into such a blue collar profession, which is simply not the case.  Or they feel that it is not prestigious, or both. 

The unemployment rate is high, yet every month there are millions of jobs that are created.  Part of this structural mismatch could be remedied if high school guidance counselors and the like would push those 2.5gpa (with a low standard deviation) 19ACT kids toward respectable careers in something practical like high end manufacturing or a technical skill like auto-repair, plumbing, etc. 

I remember reading Ivan Illich (Deschooling Society) when I flirted with libertarianism as an undergrad and that guy had some pretty interesting ideas with respect to education reform (eg cutting compulsory education at like 8th [10th?] grade and give people education credits to use at government-run training centers, if I remember correctly).

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Zig,

Uwec is a very good school.  Not easy to get into.

Stout has some good, well recruited programs.

UWRF, same story.

Might as well throw in UWS too.

Just happen to know a UWS grad who became pres of a very big company.

Not trying to bag on you.....lots of smaller UW....who have produced top notch citizens and leaders.  Too bad they got lousy BBall teams. 

Not bagging on the schools. Just sayin it's dumb to have 3 schools so close together.

[real chili 83]

Not bagging on the schools. Just sayin it's dumb to have 3 schools so close together.

Interestingly enough, all three schools have wait lists.


Like someone else said in an earlier post, these schools main market is  the Twin Cities.  They are under an hour away.

[keefe]

Plus one quadrillion!

In my opinion, vocational programs and trade schools have a social stigma to them.  It is widely believed that knowledge-how is inferior to knowledge-that--practical knowledge< factual knowledge and I wish this perception would change. 

I get that we are a service-oriented economy, but it is my understanding that there are job openings for positions like machinists in places like south carolina and mississippi where labor is relatively cheap.  However, these positions go unfilled because there is a lack of qualified individuals.  Why?  I think it's partly because people don't think that you can make a living going into such a blue collar profession, which is simply not the case.  Or they feel that it is not prestigious, or both. 

The unemployment rate is high, yet every month there are millions of jobs that are created.  Part of this structural mismatch could be remedied if high school guidance counselors and the like would push those 2.5gpa (with a low standard deviation) 19ACT kids toward respectable careers in something practical like high end manufacturing or a technical skill like auto-repair, plumbing, etc. 

I remember reading Ivan Illich (Deschooling Society) when I flirted with libertarianism as an undergrad and that guy had some pretty interesting ideas with respect to education reform (eg cutting compulsory education at like 8th [10th?] grade and give people education credits to use at government-run training centers, if I remember correctly).

Illich's thoughts on vocational training is a primer for implementing a deregulated Realschule system. His views were in some ways Marxist (I have long wondered how a Catholic priest could profess Marxism but that is another discussion) but at its heart were Anarchistic. Illich argued that it was not just the means of production but the actual ability to participate that was controlled by technocratic elites. Elites serve as gate keeper for a number of verticals including ag, manufacturing, etc... and institutionalized education served as a tool of repression. He sought localized education that relied on social networks...essentially people would apprentice under artisans to learn the practical skills necessary for society to function. And there was social and economic fluidity so that one could master baking bread then, later in life, learn to become an electrician.

An excellent critique of effective educational systems is Linda Darling-Hammond's, The Flat World and Education. She surveys successful educational models from around the world and notes that the very best share two things: teacher training aims at creating Subject Matter Experts rather than immersing them in meaningless "theories of teaching." Teachers spend 6-8 years to master their area of expertise and are paid far better than in the US model.

Second, the best systems are based on demanding curricula focused on the arts and sciences. In every single case, successful systems do not use standardized tests and other ridiculous mechanisms that are supposed to deliver accountability. She notes that US teachers are expected to teach the test (in WA State that would be the WASL) which fails every constituency. Students do not learn, teachers do not teach, and society suffers in the end. But administrators sit back and point with pride to outstanding results on standardized tests.

How did we get here? Can you spell  N  E  A?

[keefe]

You guys are missing that these schools aren't set up to serve WI, necessarily... Due to tuition reciprocity and proximity, a really good percentage of students are middle of the graduating class from MN.  The Twin Cities have sprawled so much that River Falls is a suburb (a ton of kids live at home in the east metro and commute to RF), and Stout/UWEC are perfect suitcase distance.

So the taxpayers of Wisconsin are subsidizing 3 branch campuses of the U of Minn. I am glad I don't pay taxes in WI.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

So the taxpayers of Wisconsin are subsidizing 3 branch campuses of the U of Minn. I am glad I don't pay taxes in WI.

There's a proposal now to end reciprocity with MN for in state tuition.

[GGGG]

There's a proposal now to end reciprocity with MN for in state tuition.

Might as well close up River Falls and Superior.

And UM-Twin Cities and Winona State are going to take hits on the other side of the border.

[Marquette Gyros]

Might as well close up River Falls and Superior.

And UM-Twin Cities and Winona State are going to take hits on the other side of the border.

Way more Minny kids going to Madison than WI kids going to UM-TC

[GGGG]

Way more Minny kids going to Madison than WI kids going to UM-TC

More Minnesota students take advantage of the program than Wisconsin students.  But I can't find a campus breakdown.

[Sir Lawrence]

Besides JayBee, how well does Marquette draw in the Twin Cities area?

[keefe]

Besides JayBee, how well does Marquette draw in the Twin Cities area?

We had several St Paul Irish Catholics during my time but few Minneapolis Lutherans.

[real chili 83]

Besides JayBee, how well does Marquette draw in the Twin Cities area?

I've heard that it is the third largest metro area for alum.

[dgies9156]

I believe we need a University of Michigan. I am not as certain we need an Eastern Michigan.

This is elitist crap, pure and simple. It's part of the reason why the University of Illinois rahrahs won't invest as heavily as they should in the University of Illinois at Chicago. If they did, Champaign would be a poor sister to UI-Chicago.

If we accepted the concept that we don't need other state universities in Illinois, I can only imagine how many qualified students would never get a chance and the impact that would have on our state's future. We have Southern Illinois, for example, which is ranked in the top 200 national universities in the nation (my daughter is looking at it). They have some things they do VERY well in Carbondale. We need it because not everyone can or wants to attend U of I and with its arrogant attitude, I'm not sure I would want to send someone there anyway. Not to mention the fact that at SIU, like Marquette, my daughter would be taught by real professors, not the dime-store TAs that teach most undergraduate classes at U of I.

I grew up in Tennessee and about a third to half my graduating class in Nashville went to Middle Tennessee State University (MTSU). Having only one public university in a state with today has five million people is absurd. In Wisconsin, it's good for the state to be able to have a system of public education so that folks who can't go to Madison can get a solid education. We can argue all day whether there needs to be UW-Superiors, Plattevilles, Whitewaters or River Falls, but having a UW in Eau Claire and LaCrosse in an excellent investment in Wisconsin's future. Just like Northern, Southern, Eastern and Western are for Illinois and like UTC, MTSU, ETSU and Tennessee Tech are for Tennessee.

[dgies9156]

"Might as well close up River Falls and Superior."

I can't speak to River Falls, but in Superior, it's a one connection bus ride from most of town to the University of Minnesota-Duluth. UMD is probably closer to most of Superior than Brookfield is to Marquette.

Only argument is that one college (UMD) probably should absorb UWS and the two states should jointly fund it.

[dgies9156]

Part of this structural mismatch could be remedied if high school guidance counselors and the like would push those 2.5gpa (with a low standard deviation) 19ACT kids toward respectable careers in something practical like high end manufacturing or a technical skill like auto-repair, plumbing, etc. 

Umm, I have very mixed emotions about this one! I was one of those mediocre GPAs in high school with an average SAT who ended up with a Marquette degree and a Director in a corporate finance group. Thank God ole Birdie (our guidance counselor) kept her uninformed mouth closed.

That said, I have two adopted children who are average students. Ms. DGies and I have taken the position that if they're going to work hard and show they can work hard and make the commitment, we'll help fund whatever they want to do. If the commitment isn't there or if they simply can't do the work, the funding isn't either. I see the merit in high-paid plumbers, air conditioning repairment and auto mechanics... if that's what my children want to do. Keep the guidance counselors out of it, except to advise the parents!

Or, if they're asked. But only if they're asked.

[Tugg Speedman]

The modern college admission process is a fairly new phenomena.  It was started after WW2 with all the returning soldiers and the GI bill.  Prior to that, anyone could go to pretty much any college they wanted (even Harvard) so long as their check cleared.  The GI bill offered returning vets college tuition so the numbers wanting to go to college skyrocketed.  From this was born the current college admission process.

Prior to WW2 the big difference was Freshman and Sophomore years were brutal.  They were designed to run off a good percentage of the class.  So ...

Prior to WW2, you could go to any college you wanted provided you had the money, very difficult Freshman year so a low percentage actually finished.

The current system features impossible admission standards but once in a very high percentage graduate and a high percentage of those with honors.

Which is a better system?

[tower912]

When discussing the German system, remember that all university is taxpayer funded through college.    So doctors come out of the med-school with no debt, but only make around $100k a year.    Teachers make almost as much as doctors.   Just saying.    But perhaps that is another point that needs contemplated in the health care thread.     
As to Eastern Michigan, my 4.3 GPA, 33 ACT, NHS daughter will be attending in the fall.   She has had her heart set on occupational therapy since her sophomore year in HS.   In the midwest, that major is found primarily at the directionals.   EMU is the right distance away and the best financial deal for us and has a strong OT program.   

[mu03eng]

When discussing the German system, remember that all university is taxpayer funded through college.    So doctors come out of the med-school with no debt, but only make around $100k a year.    Teachers make almost as much as doctors.   Just saying.    But perhaps that is another point that needs contemplated in the health care thread.     
As to Eastern Michigan, my 4.3 GPA, 33 ACT, NHS daughter will be attending in the fall.   She has had her heart set on occupational therapy since her sophomore year in HS.   In the midwest, that major is found primarily at the directionals.   EMU is the right distance away and the best financial deal for us and has a strong OT program.   

People need to be really careful with the elitism.  My wife went to Madison for undergrad and her PT masters, she applied to multiple Wisconsin schools including Concordia just in case.  She did not apply to MU's PT program despite it having a strong rep for learning because she heard it was a bunch of snobby elitist folks in it and running it.  I can't say, based on my experiences, that she was wrong.  This was all before we met so you can't even blame me for making her impression worse.  Bottom line, you have to be conscious of what you are putting out there as a university because you are competing for students just as much as the students are competing to get in.