Chad Ford on Vander (new)

[The Lens]

Vander Blue, G, Jr. Marquette

Blue had a breakout season as a junior, averaging 14.8 PPG. He is a terrific athlete who can guard multiple positions and exudes the sort of toughness we've come to expect from Marquette players. He's coming off a strong NCAA tournament run that helped carry Marquette to the Elite Eight. However, he still lacks a consistent perimeter jumper and is considered undersized for a 2-guard. Most likely, he's a second-round pick. But some scouts project him as a big point guard, so there's a chance he sneaks into the first round.

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I know Buzz was surprised / shocked but this isn't John Cliff turning pro.  Ford has some decent contacts.

[Goose]

Ford has been relatively high on Blue for quite some time. Still not buying Buzz was that surprised by the news.

[bilsu]

They talk about this being a weak draft. What we generally do not know is how many foreign players are going to be drafted. At some point the general managers rather draft a young foreign player knowing he will not come to the league right away than take a more known US player with known limitations. I still think DJO was a better player than Vander and I think he was drafted 57th.

[Warriors10]

He won't be an NBA PG, but hell whatever gets him in the 1st round.  Ain't my job.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ford has been relatively high on Blue for quite some time. Still not buying Buzz was that surprised by the news.

Why?  He's said it several times and some have hinted he was quite upset about it.  What makes you believe he wasn't surprised?

[Goose]

Chico's


I said on here months ago that I heard Vander was going pro this year regardless of his performance. Person that told me this I trust a great deal and he stated that was common knowledge within the program. Love Buzz big time, but he is sly guy. Expectations were probably at very high level for next year and this helps put the chip on the shoulder back into play. He might have known Blue was going but like everyone on here believe it is mistake. I stood steady on Blue leaving for months yet I was hoping he would hang around.

[brewcity77]

They talk about this being a weak draft. What we generally do not know is how many foreign players are going to be drafted. At some point the general managers rather draft a young foreign player knowing he will not come to the league right away than take a more known US player with known limitations. I still think DJO was a better player than Vander and I think he was drafted 57th.

DJO was a better college player, but Vander is a better pro prospect. Bigger, better defender, better ball handler. DJO is a better shooter, but Vander's shooting has really improved and the extra couple inches make it easier for Van to get his shot off.

By the same token, Scottie Reynolds was a better college player than either DJO or Van, but less of a pro prospect than either of them.

[insidetheleague]

Why?  He's said it several times and some have hinted he was quite upset about it.  What makes you believe he wasn't surprised?

He was surprised he couldn't convince Vander to stay. This is actually the first time Buzz couldn't convince someone to stay.

[Aughnanure]

They talk about this being a weak draft. What we generally do not know is how many foreign players are going to be drafted. At some point the general managers rather draft a young foreign player knowing he will not come to the league right away than take a more known US player with known limitations. I still think DJO was a better player than Vander and I think he was drafted 57th.

Yeah, the second round gets crazy with the amount of foreign draftees.

[GGGG]

DJO was a better college player, but Vander is a better pro prospect. Bigger, better defender, better ball handler. DJO is a better shooter, but Vander's shooting has really improved and the extra couple inches make it easier for Van to get his shot off.

By the same token, Scottie Reynolds was a better college player than either DJO or Van, but less of a pro prospect than either of them.

Frankly, outside of shooting, I think Vander did everything better than DJO.  Better ball handler, passer, defender, etc.

[avid1010]

I know Buzz was surprised / shocked but this isn't John Cliff turning pro.  Ford has some decent contacts.

the comments from j. johnson made me think buzz wasn't too surprised. 

[Hards Alumni]

Frankly, outside of shooting, I think Vander did everything better than DJO.  Better ball handler, passer, defender, etc.

Totally agree.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chico's


I said on here months ago that I heard Vander was going pro this year regardless of his performance. Person that told me this I trust a great deal and he stated that was common knowledge within the program. Love Buzz big time, but he is sly guy. Expectations were probably at very high level for next year and this helps put the chip on the shoulder back into play. He might have known Blue was going but like everyone on here believe it is mistake. I stood steady on Blue leaving for months yet I was hoping he would hang around.

DraftExpress president said similar things to me, but also felt that the consensus was that he wasn't hearing what he wanted to hear and pretty much everyone thought he was coming back.  He wanted to go (hell, he wanted to go Freshman year) but teams were saying he wasn't a first round pick.  That's how I interpreted Goodman's comments, King's comments, Buzz's, etc.  All it takes is for one agent to say one GM thinks you might be a first rounder and off he goes.

Oh well.

[Aughnanure]

Frankly, outside of shooting, I think Vander did everything better than DJO.  Better ball handler, passer, defender, etc.

Debatable on handle. DJO was a better driver, finisher, better mid-range and all around offensive talent. I'll give you defender, rebounding and passer, but its not as clear cut as you're making it.

[Lennys Tap]

some have hinted he was quite upset about it.  

I don't recall "some hinting". I do recall one guy claiming he knew a guy who overheard something while weightlifting.

[BM1090]

Debatable on handle. DJO was a better driver, finisher, better mid-range and all around offensive talent. I'll give you defender, rebounding and passer, but its not as clear cut as you're making it.

I'll give you finisher (at times) but DJO's mid range game was nowhere near the caliber of Vander.

[Aughnanure]

I'll give you finisher (at times) but DJO's mid range game was nowhere near the caliber of Vander.

What are you talking about? You seem to have a very short and selective memory about Vander. Do you have no memory of the many times DJO drove, stopped, and made a fade-away jumper to halt a run?

DJO scored much more points, shot the ball more, had a better effective FG%, True shooting %, player efficiency rating, 3 point %, and in all but 1 year a better FG% (by .07%). In Vander's best year, his efficiency doesn't come close to DJO's worst.

[77ncaachamps]

Vander's ceiling is higher than DJO's was.

But DJO was a refined product who could contribute immediately to an NBA team.
Vander can - and will - but if he continues to work on his game, he'll be a very good NBA player. Not starter quality but solid bench player.

[Sunbelt15]

If Vander can distribute the ball well with minimum turnovers, he may jump to the first round in a weak draft. We all know he's good at penetrating and finishing at the rim.

[muarmy81]

With all the guys like marcus smart, appling from MSU, McDermott, etc returning to college I think it was probably a good idea to go pro for Vander. (Although I hate to admit it cuz I would have loved to have him for one more year)  This draft class is beyond weak and that fact alone could really play into Vander's hands.  If he has good workouts over the next couple weeks he may find himself in the first round.

[MU82]

With all the guys like marcus smart, appling from MSU, McDermott, etc returning to college I think it was probably a good idea to go pro for Vander. (Although I hate to admit it cuz I would have loved to have him for one more year)  This draft class is beyond weak and that fact alone could really play into Vander's hands.  If he has good workouts over the next couple weeks he may find himself in the first round.

Most of the time, pre-draft workouts don't matter all that much. But I agree they probably will be crucial for Vander, who needs to show NBA types that he can handle, pass and think like a point guard -- or at least somebody who one day could be a point guard.

As for DJO being a better finisher, I guess that's true over the course of their careers. But I do seem to remember Vander finishing twice against St. John's and once against Davidson in fairly important situations.

[GGGG]

Debatable on handle. DJO was a better driver, finisher, better mid-range and all around offensive talent. I'll give you defender, rebounding and passer, but its not as clear cut as you're making it.

DJO had a terrible handle.  Dribbled way too high.  He was a better finisher, but Vander made leaps and bounds in that area over the past year.

[GGGG]

Vander's ceiling is higher than DJO's was.

But DJO was a refined product who could contribute immediately to an NBA team.

???  No NBA team wants him.

[Jay Bee]

One thing I like about Vander's decision is I think there was a high risk of his 2FG shooting not being as strong as it was in 2012-13. His jump shot was falling at a very good rate and whether or not that's "real", you have the 2012-13 as fact... a decline in 2013-14 would have potentially brought back doubters.

Combined with this draft class vs. how next year's projects, I'm not so sure it was some crazy decision on Van's part. Really wish he was at MU for another year, but it really may have been a good 'business decision'.

[Goose]

Have stated numerous times that Blue's 3 pt shooting % was affected by the number of bad shots he had to take as shot clock expired. He took what seemed like at least one forced shot from 3 pt land every game. He did make some of those, Badger game comes to mind, but if he missed 15 shots that should not or would not have been taken if affects % a great deal. Far from a sharp shooter and needs improvement in that area, but the shooting % was affected by bad half court offense.