How did Marquette Get Crushed by Kansas?

[mcderjim]

I'm watching HOU vs OKC and I discover the stiff, Nick Coliform, from Kansas is still in the NBA.  Kirk Hinrich has a decent but unspectacular career and I continue to wonder how did we lose to Kansas in the Final Four with D Wade? Novak is the best 3 pt shooter ever. Diener is my favorite MU player in my history. RJax was a stud! Merritt had some SOG games. I painfully sat in Major Goolsby's as we were crushed from minute 1. MU had the best team I saw in my career and I'm 50. And I'm not a Crean basher as I know the huge positive impact that O'Neill and Crean made at MU. Perhaps if my new favorite coach of all time, Buzz Williams was running the team, MU would have 2 NCAA titles by now?  Buzz, I'm all in....go get them 2014 and 2015 recruits who will help put Hinrich and Collison out of my mind forever !!!! Go Warriors !!!!

[Newsdreams]

As I recall Wade had an ankle injury and was not able to play with the intensity of the previous game. They also had us on height inside plus coaching experience.

[Nukem2]

As I recall Wade had an ankle injury and was not able to play with the intensity of the previous game. They also had us on height inside plus coaching experience.

No, the issue was that Diener had shin splints and was no where near normal.....

[4everwarriors]

We had a penis head masqueradin' as a head coach who crapped his trousers on college basketball's biggest stage because couldn't figure out Kansas' fast break, though he had a week to prepare.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm watching HOU vs OKC and I discover the stiff, Nick Coliform, from Kansas is still in the NBA.  Kirk Hinrich has a decent but unspectacular career and I continue to wonder how did we lose to Kansas in the Final Four with D Wade? Novak is the best 3 pt shooter ever. Diener is my favorite MU player in my history. RJax was a stud! Merritt had some SOG games. I painfully sat in Major Goolsby's as we were crushed from minute 1. MU had the best team I saw in my career and I'm 50. And I'm not a Crean basher as I know the huge positive impact that O'Neill and Crean made at MU. Perhaps if my new favorite coach of all time, Buzz Williams was running the team, MU would have 2 NCAA titles by now?  Buzz, I'm all in....go get them 2014 and 2015 recruits who will help put Hinrich and Collison out of my mind forever !!!! Go Warriors !!!!

How did Lehigh beat Duke?   How did UNC destroy Marquette?  How did Marquette beat Kentucky?  How did Shaq never get to a Final Four, or for that matter an Elite 8?  How did the 1978 MU team lose to Miami (OH)? 

One and done...happens all the time.  I think the players on that team said it best, but taking their opinions would go against the Crean bashing meme here so why bother listening to what Diener, Novak, Wade, etc all said...we'll just ignore it.   

[wadesworld]

We had a penis head masqueradin' as a head coach who crapped his trousers on college basketball's biggest stage because couldn't figure out Kansas' fast break, though he had a week to prepare.

Bingo.

What's funny is that Crean didn't think he could reach "the next step" at Marquette.  He thought he plateaued, when in reality he has yet to get Indiana to where he got Marquette, and if he was ever going to get Indiana to where he got Marquette it was going to be this year, with a weak overall product in college basketball and the most talented team he will land there.  The funniest part of it all?  Buzz took Marquette further than Crean took Indiana this year (or since being at Indiana...heck, he hasn't finished worse than Crean and Indiana since Crean left Marquette).

[Rockmic87]

Members of the team were out late the night before the game drinking and enjoying New Orleans.

[wadesworld]

Members of the team were out late the night before the game drinking and enjoying New Orleans.

DJO and Blue were on the team as 13 and 10 year olds, respectively?

[MUFlutieEffect]

How does the NBA abilities of players 10 years later have anything to do with how they played in college?

[Lennys Tap]

 I think the players on that team said it best, but taking their opinions would go against the Crean bashing meme here so why bother listening to what Diener, Novak, Wade, etc all said...we'll just ignore it.  

So if the players didn't blame Crean for their being unprepared we can't. Please then explain for me how you can claim Buzz has been out coached and unprepared when the players didn't say as much? Can you spell double standard?

[Sir Lawrence]

The key to answering this question is to focus on one word:  "crushed."

A loss can be explained. 
But an utter failure to compete cannot.
And yes, future performance can be used to judge players ten years younger.  It's not a perfect analysis, but it's probably more accurate than the reverse.
I will forever place the loss on coaching.  I believe that he was fully prepared to get to the final four, and had no idea what to do next.

[bilsu]

Kansas was physically stronger than us. There were three early plays that I still remember. Kansas small forward, who was not suspose to be a good shooter drilled a three from the corner late on either the first or second possession, which meant we had to cover him. Novak came in when we were down 7 and badly missed a wide open three and never got untracked. Collison gave Wade a forearm to the neck and Wade seemed tentative after that. The game just snowballed after those plays.

[MU82]

How does the NBA abilities of players 10 years later have anything to do with how they played in college?

Collison and Hinrich were/are good enough to have 10-year NBA careers (and counting). Hinrich will have made well over $100 million by the time he's done playing -- meaning he will have been a good enough pro to earn more than every 2003 Warrior not named Wade ... combined!

Hinrich was a great college player. Collison was very good. They were surrounded by several other highly regarded recruits. Roy Williams is a Hall of Fame coach.

Marquette had one great player, several good ones and a relatively inexperienced (at that point) head coach. We got off to a bad start and it snowballed. That happens. But don't dismiss how good Kansas was.

[NCMUFan]

I think Marquette was overwhelmed.  They played like they were in YaYa Land.  The Marquette Superbowl for them was the win over Kentucky.  Nick Collinson had a chip on his shoulder and just took it to Marquette.  The only one who seemed to have a clue that game was D. Wade.  The rest of the team was lost.  Although the game was a huge disappointment, I am sure everyone was proud of the team that year.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So if the players didn't blame Crean for their being unprepared we can't. Please then explain for me how you can claim Buzz has been out coached and unprepared when the players didn't say as much? Can you spell double standard?

Show me where I said Buzz had us unprepared? I can recall only one time ever saying Buzz was out coached and I actually said the staff because I'm not silly enough like some people here to think the entire thing falls on one guy.  And please, you should be the last person on the planet to say the words double standard.

Its hard to be outcoached when your team is shooting 30%....it isn't your day.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Bingo.

What's funny is that Crean didn't think he could reach "the next step" at Marquette.  He thought he plateaued, when in reality he has yet to get Indiana to where he got Marquette, and if he was ever going to get Indiana to where he got Marquette it was going to be this year, with a weak overall product in college basketball and the most talented team he will land there.  The funniest part of it all?  Buzz took Marquette further than Crean took Indiana this year (or since being at Indiana...heck, he hasn't finished worse than Crean and Indiana since Crean left Marquette).

It won't be the most talented team he will have there by a long shot.  They had no depth, his future teams will have more depth.  He got MU to a Final Four, no one else has not named McGuire.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The key to answering this question is to focus on one word:  "crushed."

A loss can be explained. 
But an utter failure to compete cannot.
And yes, future performance can be used to judge players ten years younger.  It's not a perfect analysis, but it's probably more accurate than the reverse.
I will forever place the loss on coaching.  I believe that he was fully prepared to get to the final four, and had no idea what to do next.

I'm just curious, when MU was "crushed" by UNC a few years ago, was that forever placed on coaching?

I'm always struck by how we beat the #1 team in the country, CRUSHED them, to get to that game with that same coach and the same detractors here NEVER give any credit to that coach.  Literally...NEVER.  Its as if it didn't happen.  Quite revealing.

MU shot the ball terribly, KU's transition offense killed us.  People forget it was a one point game past the second media timeout, then the deluge came....reminded me a lot of the UNC vs MU game a few years ago.  Some will blame the coach, that's fine...I just find it interesting that getting that far had nothing to do with him and when another coach here gets crushed, well that's different.  LOL

[ChicosBailBonds]

Crean's shooting that day really sucked.  So did the players

Travis Diener 1 for 11
Meritt was only  5 of 14
Novak 1 for 7
Townsend 0 for 3
Chapman 0 for 3
Bradley 1 for 7

18% we shot from 3 land, 31% for the game but in the first half it was much worse.  Ball game.  Pretty simple

One guy shot 50%...one guy...Robert Jackson was 6 for 12. 

[Galway Eagle]

I'm just curious, when MU was "crushed" by UNC a few years ago, was that forever placed on coaching?

I'm always struck by how we beat the #1 team in the country, CRUSHED them, to get to that game with that same coach and the same detractors here NEVER give any credit to that coach.  Literally...NEVER.  Its as if it didn't happen.  Quite revealing.

MU shot the ball terribly, KU's transition offense killed us.  People forget it was a one point game past the second media timeout, then the deluge came....reminded me a lot of the UNC vs MU game a few years ago.  Some will blame the coach, that's fine...I just find it interesting that getting that far had nothing to do with him and when another coach here gets crushed, well that's different.  LOL

I'll be the first to say it was partial coaching two years ago.  Buzz wasn't experienced enough yet to beat a Blue Blood program on that stage, the caliber of players (at that moment) didn't help either. 

[Jay Bee]

Partly due to Crean not being a very good coach, but lots to do with ZFB jinxing MU. Every tourney game up to KU he rocked an awesome MU shirt. The KU game was at the same time his friend was having his "pink out" birthday party at La Cage.

ZFB wore the lucky MU shirt under his little pink & glitter number, but it wasn't the same. MU was doomed.

[klyrish]

We had a penis head masqueradin' as a head coach who crapped his trousers on college basketball's biggest stage because couldn't figure out Kansas' fast break, though he had a week to prepare.

If we'd have just shot more 3s, we would have won.

[77ncaachamps]

Three future NBAers on MU's team vs. Five on Kansas's

Scratch that.

Bad game planning that clapping couldn't even overcome.
And he knew it: http://www2.kusports.com/news/2003/apr/05/crean_concerned_about/


Recap:

Jayhawks do it all right in monumental blowout
RECOMMEND0TWEET0
NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- Kansas shook the Superdome with rim-rattling dunks, a fast break that couldn't be stopped and a blowout of historic proportions.

It was as close to perfect as basketball can get, and now the Jayhawks and Roy Williams are one step closer to that elusive national title.
All-American Nick Collison scored 12 points and had 15 rebounds Saturday night to lift the Jayhawks to a 94-61 victory against overmatched Marquette, the fourth-most lopsided game in Final Four history.

"Some people could say we reached the pinnacle of our game today,'' Williams said. "I hope there's still something left in us.''
In his 15th season as coach at Kansas (30-7), Williams stands one win away from the national title he needs to fill out an otherwise impeccable resume.
Whether he gets it or not Monday against Syracuse, a 95-84 winner over Texas in the second semifinal, he will go home knowing his team set a standard for Final Four excellence.

Pushing the ball at will, outjumping and outhustling Marquette (27-6), the Big 12 regular-season champions shot 53 percent -- and that was despite a long dry spell when the reserves were on court at the end of the game.

They made eight 3-pointers and many times simply embarrassed the Golden Eagles, snatching loose balls out of their hands, beating them downcourt for uncontested layups and dunking no fewer than 15 times.

Collison may be the best player for Kansas, but he certainly wasn't the only star. Keith Langford led the Jayhawks with 23 points on 11-for-14 shooting. Kirk Hinrich and Aaron Miles scored 18 points each.

The four of them missed only 16 of 46 shots before Williams finally relented, emptying the bench with 5 minutes left -- ensuring the Jayhawks would be fresh for their first appearance in the title game since 1991.

Given the performance, Kansas might seem like a shoo-in for the title. Williams has been around too long to get comfortable.
"You're still dealing with 19, 20, 21-year-old kids,'' he said. "Who knows what the mood will be? Our focus is to practice hard, and hope we play our best game of the season Monday night.''

But how to top this?

The Kansas win was the biggest blowout at the Final Four since Michigan State beat Penn 101-67 in the 1979 semifinals. The most lopsided was Princeton's 118-82 victory over Wichita State in a third-place game in 1965.
"We've played a lot of good teams, some conference champions, and I would put them as good as anyone we've faced,'' Marquette coach Tom Crean said.

Collison, who had 33 points and 19 rebounds in Kansas' 69-65 win over Duke last week, came five assists away from joining Marquette's Dwyane Wade as the second player in this monthlong NCAA tournament to record a triple-double.
Collison came up short, but it was no problem.

In a Final Four full of stars, he way outshined Wade, a fellow All-American. The Marquette junior closed out a remarkable season, and likely his college career, on a frustrating 19-point night that included a literal -- and inadvertent -- slap in the face from Collison. It happened while the Kansas forward was twisting to go up for a shot.

It was one of many mortifying moments for Marquette, which shocked top-ranked Kentucky in last week's Midwest Regional final to make its first Final Four since 1977.

The late Al McGuire led that team, then known as the Warriors, to their only championship that season, but on this night, the spirit of '77 certainly wasn't with them.

"We were paralyzed a few times -- standing around, not getting back,'' Crean said.

Never were they more flat-footed than late in the first half with Kansas leading 52-28.
Langford missed the second of two free throws and Marquette's Robert Jackson had the rebound in his hands, only to fumble it away. Kansas missed, and on the rebound, the ball went right through the hands of Marquette's Todd Townsend and straight to Collison, who drove for an easy layup.

It was part of a 18-4 run that Williams said was one of the most impressive he's ever seen.

"I cannot remember any time where we've done that kind of thing,'' he said.
Kansas led 59-30 at halftime -- the fourth-highest halftime point total in Final Four history. The Jayhawks had 16 assists by the half, one of many gaudy statistics they piled up in 20 minutes that most teams take an entire game to post.
Williams, making his fourth Final Four appearance with the Jayhawks, will spend at least two more days deflecting talk of his potential candidacy for the North Carolina job.

The coach has tersely avoided discussing a return to his alma mater, saying it would cheat his players in their quest to bring the first championship to Kansas since 1988 -- Larry Brown's last year as coach.

"It's never really been a problem,'' Collison said, referring to the coaching talk. "We're in the Final Four. We've been playing all season. So, I think when you get to this point, you just focus on the game.''

Maybe, however, Crean is interested. A key member of Tom Izzo's staff at Michigan State four years ago, Crean has been floated as a possible successor to Matt Doherty, largely due to Marquette's unexpected surge this season.

[77ncaachamps]

I was looking for a Play-by-Play to see how the shooting numbers fell by the half, but here is the "Game at a Glance" (narrative on the periodic flow of the game):

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney03/story?id=1534397

Game at a glance: Marquette vs. Kansas
ESPN.com

Pregame
Marquette coach Tom Crean is an emotional guy. All week, he's been unveiling the hats of teams that have shocked the pundits and won big games. For his final motivational ploy, he showed every "One Shining Moment" video montage CBS has ever produced.

Kansas, meanwhile, was cool and confident in pregame warmups. Roy Williams, who's been relaxed all week, was smiling and laughing. His team seemed to feed off that.

And one final note: at the end of practice on Friday, Marquette practiced a postgame victory celebration at midcourt, complete with a dogpile in front of their bench. Crean just smiled and hoped it was a sign of things to come.

Kansas leads 12-9, 15:17 left, first half
Kansas jumped to an early 5-0 lead and led by three at the first television timeout. Marquette scored just once on its first six possessions, but rallied to tie the game at nine on a tip at the 15:50 mark. Aaron Miles had six quick points, including a 3-pointer to open the scoring. Dwyane Wade had just two early points for Marquette. Nick Collison was scoreless and hadn't taken a shot.

Kansas leads 23-14, 12:16 left, first half
Kirk Hinrich hit a pair of 3-pointers as Kansas went on a 9-2 run to push its lead to nine. Kansas continued to push the pace, as Marquette settled into a zone defense. The Jayhawks countered by trying to beat it down the floor. Kansas hit nine of its first 15 shots, while Marquette was shooting just 38 pecent. Collison has taken just one shot for Kansas, but Keith Langford and Aaron Miles each have 6 points.

Kansas leads 31-16, 9:05 left, first half
Kansas is totally in control of the game. The Jayhawks are dominating the pace and have Marquette rushing, something the Golden Eagles haven't done in the tournament. When Kansas took a 25-14 lead with 11:07 left, it was the biggest deficit Marquette had faced in the tournament. Collison finally scored with 10:37 left -- and added a dunk a little over a minute later. Langford is off to a fast start with eight points.

Kansas leads 33-16, 7:59 left, first half
Hinrich has 10 points as the Jayhawks continue to roll. Collison has eight rebounds to go along with his four points.

Kansas leads 44-26, 3:43 left, first half
The rout is really on now. Michael Lee scored twice, including a 3-pointer, to give Kansas its 18-point lead.

Dick Vitale: "The transition game of Kansas is too much for Marquette right now. They just push the ball too quickly. And while everybody was looking at Hinrich and Collison from Kansas, nobody was looking at Langford. And he's having a great first half." A bad omen for Marquette: Kansas is 20-0 this season when it scores 80 or more points. They're well on their way.

Kansas leads 59-30 at halftime
Not since Michigan State led Penn by 33 points at halftime of their national semifinal in 1979 has there been such a rout after 20 minutes. Kansas' 29-point lead is their biggest of the game. For the half, Kansas shot 60 percent from the field (compared to 28 percent for Marquette). The Jayhawks were 6-for-12 from the 3-point line; Marquette was 1-for-9. Langford has 17 points (on 8-for-10 shooting), Hinrich has 15 and Collison has 10 and 12 rebounds. Meanwhile, for Marquette, Wade and Travis Diener are 5-for-18 from the field. Wade has 10 points; Diener just three.

One of the most telling numbers: Kansas has 19 fast-break points. Marquette has none.

Dick Vitale: "If you had to give them a grade, it's an A-plus. What a half."

Kansas leads 73-32, 15:22 left, second half
Marquette coach Tom Crean said he wanted to cut into Kansas' halftime advantage in four-minute intervals. After four-plus minutes of the second half, he's minus-12. Kansas went on a tear to open the second half, scoring the first eight points to build a 37-point lead. The Jayhawks continue to fast break Marquette at every opportunity. Marquette, meanwhile, has slipped to 25 percent from the field and has only two players with more than four points. Kansas, meanwhile, has four players in double figures, led by Langford with 19. Miles and Hinrich have 18 each.

Kansas leads 79-39, 13:15 left, second half
How bad is it for Marquette? The Golden Eagles are out of timeouts with 13 minutes left. Kansas continues to pour it on, hitting nine of its first 10 shots in the second half. All that's left? Records and pride.

Kansas leads 85-48, 7:37 left, second half
Kansas got a little sloppy midway through the half as the lead slipped to -- gasp! -- 25, but no one in red and blue was feeling threatened. Hinrich left with 18 points. Collison left with 12 points and 15 rebounds. The Jayhawks continue to shoot 64 percent from the field. Backcourt scoring through 32-plus minutes? 70-19. Game over. Long ago.

Kansas leads 92-52, 3:41 left, second half
The biggest semifinal rout in tournament history is 36 points. Kansas is now up 40. Kansas now has five players in double figures. Marquette continues to struggle to get to 30 percent shooting.

Kansas wins 94-61
Kansas walk-on Brett Olson (averaging 0.4 ppg this season) enters the game with three minutes left, officially sealing the deal. Three minutes later, Kansas had won by 33 points -- and it wasn't that close. The Jayhawks shot more than 60 percent from the field for most of the game and held Marquette to 31 percent. Langford finished with 23 points, Hinrich and Miles with 18, Lee with 13 and Collison with 12 and 15 rebounds. Wade had 19 points to lead Marquette.

Dick Vitale: "Kansas had its transition game in gear right out of the gate. It was simple: Kansas dominated in every phase of the game."

[keefe]

Bad game planning that clapping couldn't even overcome.
And he knew it: http://www2.kusports.com/news/2003/apr/05/crean_concerned_about/


Recap:

Jayhawks do it all right in monumental blowout

One of the most shameful nights in the long history of Marquette basketball. To be humiliated so thoroughly in front of the entire nation on college basketball's biggest stage was too much to bear. It really did brand the team's erstwhile success as a fluke. It reinforced the notion that, somehow, Marquette really did not belong. They were pretenders, after all. The shimmering gown turned maid's smock as the clock struck midnight.

Tom Crean had all week to prepare for that game. His paralysis as Pearl Harbor unfolded was mortifying then opprobrious. Subsequent seasons confirmed our increasing awareness that beneath the tan lurked a charlatan. If that man spent half the time in mission planning as he did in self-promotion we should have had at least a fighting chance. Instead, Pearl Harbor gave way to Corregidor and we had a full-on Bataan Death March unfold before our very eyes. The sting of that night was at once abhorrent and invidious. And all for want of leadership.

[mug644]

...

I'm always struck by how we beat the #1 team in the country, CRUSHED them, to get to that game with that same coach and the same detractors here NEVER give any credit to that coach.  Literally...NEVER.  Its as if it didn't happen.  Quite revealing.

...

While I agree that there is a tendency to blame the coach for losses but not give credit for victories (especially Crean), I disagree with your vehemance about not giving Crean credit for the victory over Kentucky in 2003. Plenty of people (probably including some of the detractors you are trying to call out) acknowledge how wise a move it was to double-down on Estill. Challenging him that way really shook him up and took him out of the game. There were other factors in the win, but that was undoubtedly a coaching move that made a big difference, and people have noted that plenty over the years.