Cinco de Buzz!

[Dr. Blackheart]

At some point on this board I would hope I'm actually quoted correctly on the 5 year stuff, I'm happy to provide countless links to assist.  Yup, I thought we could have waited another few weeks to get Buzz, Buzz wasn't going anywhere.  It all worked out.  I'm very happy, he was my COY candidate the last two years.

On the 5 years comment, what did I actually say?   Hmmm. I wonder.    I said I would FULLY judge a coach after 5 years, but during those years also said constantly "so far so good" many times.  I never said you don't make a judgement until after 5 years and then suddenly at the end of the 5th year you make your final judgment.  For some reason what I actually said is never quoted...weird. Strange.  SHOCKING    

To each their own, I'll stick to 5 years for my compass to FULLY judge a coach.  Mike Deane, after three years...two NCAAs, a NIT runner up.  Fired year 5.  Bruiser Flint, first two years NCAA tournament...fired year five.  Etc.  In my view, a coach needs five years because you have to go through one full recruiting cycle where his recruits become seniors.  Seems only common sense, you are free to evaluate a coach on any parameter you wish, just as I am free to use my tenure belief.  I just wish, good Doctor and others, that you would actually get the quote correct and not imply I said something I didn't say or leave very important parts out of it.  Context is everything.  

Peace

Rather than making this about your past posts which is your wont, how about providing your full assessment after Year 5?  Where were you right?  Where were you wrong?  How does he compare to others?  What does he need to do to take it to the next level?  Not interested in your persecution defense...interested in your valued assessment...which is why I called you out...not that you had an opinion and stuck to it for five years.  

[jesmu84]

Rather than making this about your past posts which is your wont, how about providing your full assessment after Year 5?  Where were you right?  Where were you wrong?  How does he compare to others?  What does he need to do to take it to the next level?  Not interested in your persecution defense...interested in your valued assessment...which is why I called you out...not that you had an opinion and stuck to it for five years.  

+1

[Lennys Tap]

Is it better to be a head coach at a smaller school or an assistant at a larger school?  Of our last five coaches, the most three successful have been those who were primarily assistants at larger schools...and the two least successful have come via the smaller school route.

I'm with you, but part of the criticism about Buzz was lack of experience as a head coach and the idea that MU had come far enough that it "shouldn't have to settle for" an assistant.

[GGGG]

I'm with you, but part of the criticism about Buzz was lack of experience as a head coach and the idea that MU had come far enough that it "shouldn't have to settle for" an assistant.

But I think the sentiment is that we would be able to lure a coach like Tony Bennett or Anthony Grant...not whomever is the head coach at St. Peters.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Here is a chart of other coaching hires in 2008

http://collegesportsinfo.com/blog/2008/04/2008-college-basketball-coaching.html

...and no "Bo Ryan" to be found on the chart at all. Thought he was the greatest coach still coaching today?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Rather than making this about your past posts which is your wont, how about providing your full assessment after Year 5?  Where were you right?  Where were you wrong?  How does he compare to others?  What does he need to do to take it to the next level?  Not interested in your persecution defense...interested in your valued assessment...which is why I called you out...not that you had an opinion and stuck to it for five years.  

Well, since you brought up a past post from 5 years ago, that's why I went there, but I appreciate the follow-up and the ability to answer, especially since so many folks here literally make crap up and attribute something that I never said or wanted an outcome that I never did.  Nothing infuriates me more than MU fans here claiming someone that is objective or questions something somehow isn't a fan, or less of a fan. 

Was I wrong about 5 years ago...I don't see how.  I said "so far so good".  Never said he would fail, never wanted him to fail....that would be bad for MU.  Was I underwhelmed by the hire, didn't like the process.  Yup.  Go back and look at what the pundits said nationally...all very consistent.   Did I ever say he wouldn't succeed or wouldn't do well...nope.  In fact, I said if he was able to recruit well (his strong suit) and work hard (he has), he could succeed at MU given the resources we now have.

Was I right 5 years ago...I didn't make a prediction about his success or failure, so I wasn't right or wrong as I made no prediction on his success or failure. 

My assessment....after 5 years, I think he's done a very solid job, with a few hiccups.  There were issues I was not happy with and neither was the administration.  I'm glad those issues were addressed.  I'll repeat what I've said over and over again, I hope he is here for the long haul.  It's good for us as fans, good for Marquette University (both as an institution and basketball program).  I'm not, however, going to grant him messianic powers.  He's a coach, and the line of success and failure is razor thin.  See Ben Howland after 5 years vs next 5.  Coaches come and go, if he goes, MU will hire another coach.  He has my support as long as he continues to graduate kids, fields a competitive team, keeps the players in check.  When those things start to erode consistently (not just one sub par year), then you take notice, but it's been a solid 5 years...so far so good as we move into the next 5. 

Expectations, fortunately or unfortunately, grow with success.  It's part of life in business, athletics, etc.  Will a Sweet 16 be "good enough" next year?  What if we have "one of those games" where we just don't shoot well and lose in the first round?  It happens.  If we don't win the conference next year is it a failure?  Fans have a funny way at looking at things, fairly or unfairly, but that works both ways.  Fans also tend to over exaggerate success as well.  Very fine line.


Peace

[Lennys Tap]

But I think the sentiment is that we would be able to lure a coach like Tony Bennett or Anthony Grant...not whomever is the head coach at St. Peters.

True, but I think that sentiment was dead wrong.

[Lennys Tap]

My assessment....after 5 years, I think he's done a very solid job, with a few hiccups.  There were issues I was not happy with and neither was the administration.  I'm glad those issues were addressed.  I'll repeat what I've said over and over again, I hope he is here for the long haul.  It's good for us as fans, good for Marquette University (both as an institution and basketball program).  I'm not, however, going to grant him messianic powers.  He's a coach, and the line of success and failure is razor thin.  See Ben Howland after 5 years vs next 5.  Coaches come and go, if he goes, MU will hire another coach.  He has my support as long as he continues to graduate kids, fields a competitive team, keeps the players in check.  When those things start to erode consistently (not just one sub par year), then you take notice, but it's been a solid 5 years...so far so good as we move into the next 5. 

Expectations, fortunately or unfortunately, grow with success.  It's part of life in business, athletics, etc.  Will a Sweet 16 be "good enough" next year?  What if we have "one of those games" where we just don't shoot well and lose in the first round?  It happens.  If we don't win the conference next year is it a failure?  Fans have a funny way at looking at things, fairly or unfairly, but that works both ways.  Fans also tend to over exaggerate success as well.  Very fine line.


Peace

You still seem a bit underwhelmed.

[jesmu84]

Well, since you brought up a past post from 5 years ago, that's why I went there, but I appreciate the follow-up and the ability to answer, especially since so many folks here literally make crap up and attribute something that I never said or wanted an outcome that I never did.  Nothing infuriates me more than MU fans here claiming someone that is objective or questions something somehow isn't a fan, or less of a fan. 

Was I wrong about 5 years ago...I don't see how.  I said "so far so good".  Never said he would fail, never wanted him to fail....that would be bad for MU.  Was I underwhelmed by the hire, didn't like the process.  Yup.  Go back and look at what the pundits said nationally...all very consistent.   Did I ever say he wouldn't succeed or wouldn't do well...nope.  In fact, I said if he was able to recruit well (his strong suit) and work hard (he has), he could succeed at MU given the resources we now have.

Was I right 5 years ago...I didn't make a prediction about his success or failure, so I wasn't right or wrong as I made no prediction on his success or failure. 

My assessment....after 5 years, I think he's done a very solid job, with a few hiccups.  There were issues I was not happy with and neither was the administration.  I'm glad those issues were addressed.  I'll repeat what I've said over and over again, I hope he is here for the long haul.  It's good for us as fans, good for Marquette University (both as an institution and basketball program).  I'm not, however, going to grant him messianic powers.  He's a coach, and the line of success and failure is razor thin.  See Ben Howland after 5 years vs next 5.  Coaches come and go, if he goes, MU will hire another coach.  He has my support as long as he continues to graduate kids, fields a competitive team, keeps the players in check.  When those things start to erode consistently (not just one sub par year), then you take notice, but it's been a solid 5 years...so far so good as we move into the next 5. 

Expectations, fortunately or unfortunately, grow with success.  It's part of life in business, athletics, etc.  Will a Sweet 16 be "good enough" next year?  What if we have "one of those games" where we just don't shoot well and lose in the first round?  It happens.  If we don't win the conference next year is it a failure?  Fans have a funny way at looking at things, fairly or unfairly, but that works both ways.  Fans also tend to over exaggerate success as well.  Very fine line.


Peace

Just to clarify... "solid job" to you = consistently winning in the best basketball conference over the last 5 years, 5 NCAA appearances with 3 sweet sixteens and 1 elite eight, a shared regular season title (which you stated was more valuable than a conference tournament title) and excellent graduation rates? Sure, like you said, a few hiccups. But you honestly think that Buzz's resume at marquette is mearly a "solid job"?

I want 5 examples of coaches over a 5 year period each that would be, in your opinion, great, speactacular, excellent, etc.

And, do you want Buzz to remain here for the "long haul" because it would simply be good for Marquette and prove MU isn't a stepping-stone job or because you actually like/respect Buzz? There's definitely a difference between the two

[ChicosBailBonds]

Just to clarify... "solid job" to you = consistently winning in the best basketball conference over the last 5 years, 5 NCAA appearances with 3 sweet sixteens and 1 elite eight, a shared regular season title (which you stated was more valuable than a conference tournament title) and excellent graduation rates? Sure, like you said, a few hiccups. But you honestly think that Buzz's resume at marquette is mearly a "solid job"?

I want 5 examples of coaches over a 5 year period each that would be, in your opinion, great, speactacular, excellent, etc.

And, do you want Buzz to remain here for the "long haul" because it would simply be good for Marquette and prove MU isn't a stepping-stone job or because you actually like/respect Buzz? There's definitely a difference between the two

Seems like you, Lenny and a few others want me to put on a dress and grab some pom poms.  LOL. 

I like Buzz, respect Buzz (if he is willing to understand the university's mission, which I think he is) and want him also to stay at MU to prove it isn't a stepping stone job.  So it's both, not one or the the other.  And yes, there is a difference between the two.

I've always felt Buzz (or anyone that took the job) was stepping into a wonderful situation.  Fantastic club coming back, guaranteed NCAA team for which that coach was going to get some instant street cred.  Big East, great facilities, fan base was energized. Let's put it this way, a lot easier to step into that situation then what he stepped into at UNO or any number of other examples we could use.  He took it and ran with it, and for that I give him great credit.  He didn't just settle and coast, he did a really good job.  People will say how there wasn't so much talent coming back the year after, but I disagree.  Certainly not as much as year one, but the cupboard was hardly bare either.  No need to rehash that, it's been rehashed a million times.

He hit the ground running from a recruiting perspective and that was key. His coaching has improved, he's more seasoned.  We've have a few head scratchers and blowouts, but so does every coach.  Consistency of hard work by his teams have been there from day one on effort, which I love. 

As to your question, there are a lot of coaches that over a 5 year period that have been very good, some great.  I'm not sure where you are going with that, but there are many, some in our very own conference.  I think Buzz's teams have finished 5th, 5th, 9th, 2nd, 1st.  Two great years, two really good years, one so-so year.  Overall, really good.  Have there been coaches that have done better than that in a 5 year period...of course.  In our own conference, but again not sure what that really proves.  But if you wish, Boeheim went 6th, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 5th in the last 5, but if you're looking at any 5 year stretch he's done 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 3rd as just one example.  Calhoun once went 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st.  Jamie Dixon 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 13th, 4th in the last five.  Again, just in our own conference. 

I haven't even gone out of conference yet, so yes there are guys that have done it before or better.  Bo Ryan, Tom Izzo, Pitino, Donovan, Smart, Matta, Miller, Few, etc, etc.  What excites me is that in the last 2 years he's had a 2nd and a first with a very good team coming back next year.  You might see him put together a 5 year run of a 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd or something like that.  That's when you approach great stuff.  The NCAAs, you know how I feel about it.  Crapshoot.  This year easily (should have been) one and done.  We got lucky, but you take it, but that's the point...the line is very very thin on success and failure.  Some years we will come out on the wrong side of luck (Washington game), and some years we come out on the right side (Davidson).  That's the beauty of the tournament.  If G'Town doesn't play FGCU, maybe they go to the Final four if they were the #2 seed in another region with a 2 seed draw.  We will never know, it's all matchups and how you play THAT day.  The best team doesn't always win and since the coach can't make shots for players, the coach is often overly heralded or overly criticized...players play, not the coaches.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Seems like you, Lenny and a few others want me to put on a dress and grab some pom poms.  LOL.  

I like Buzz, respect Buzz (if he is willing to understand the university's mission, which I think he is) and want him also to stay at MU to prove it isn't a stepping stone job.  So it's both, not one or the the other.  And yes, there is a difference between the two.

I've always felt Buzz (or anyone that took the job) was stepping into a wonderful situation.  Fantastic club coming back, guaranteed NCAA team for which that coach was going to get some instant street cred.  Big East, great facilities, fan base was energized. Let's put it this way, a lot easier to step into that situation then what he stepped into at UNO or any number of other examples we could use.  He took it and ran with it, and for that I give him great credit.  He didn't just settle and coast, he did a really good job.  People will say how there wasn't so much talent coming back the year after, but I disagree.  Certainly not as much as year one, but the cupboard was hardly bare either.  No need to rehash that, it's been rehashed a million times.

He hit the ground running from a recruiting perspective and that was key. His coaching has improved, he's more seasoned.  We've have a few head scratchers and blowouts, but so does every coach.  Consistency of hard work by his teams have been there from day one on effort, which I love.  

As to your question, there are a lot of coaches that over a 5 year period that have been very good, some great.  I'm not sure where you are going with that, but there are many, some in our very own conference.  I think Buzz's teams have finished 5th, 5th, 9th, 2nd, 1st.  Two great years, two really good years, one so-so year.  Overall, really good.  Have there been coaches that have done better than that in a 5 year period...of course.  In our own conference, but again not sure what that really proves.  But if you wish, Boeheim went 6th, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 5th in the last 5, but if you're looking at any 5 year stretch he's done 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 3rd as just one example.  Calhoun once went 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st.  Jamie Dixon 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 13th, 4th in the last five.  Again, just in our own conference.  

I haven't even gone out of conference yet, so yes there are guys that have done it before or better.  Bo Ryan, Tom Izzo, Pitino, Donovan, Smart, Matta, Miller, Few, etc, etc.  What excites me is that in the last 2 years he's had a 2nd and a first with a very good team coming back next year.  You might see him put together a 5 year run of a 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd or something like that.  That's when you approach great stuff.  The NCAAs, you know how I feel about it.  Crapshoot.  This year easily (should have been) one and done.  We got lucky, but you take it, but that's the point...the line is very very thin on success and failure.  Some years we will come out on the wrong side of luck (Washington game), and some years we come out on the right side (Davidson).  That's the beauty of the tournament.  If G'Town doesn't play FGCU, maybe they go to the Final four if they were the #2 seed in another region with a 2 seed draw.  We will never know, it's all matchups and how you play THAT day.  The best team doesn't always win and since the coach can't make shots for players, the coach is often overly heralded or overly criticized...players play, not the coaches.

And you are the one that likes to educate the masses on coachspeak. I can't believe this epistle is what took five years to marinate.

[Lennys Tap]

Seems like you, Lenny and a few others want me to put on a dress and grab some pom poms.  LOL. 

I like Buzz, respect Buzz (if he is willing to understand the university's mission, which I think he is) and want him also to stay at MU to prove it isn't a stepping stone job.  So it's both, not one or the the other.  And yes, there is a difference between the two.

I've always felt Buzz (or anyone that took the job) was stepping into a wonderful situation.  Fantastic club coming back, guaranteed NCAA team for which that coach was going to get some instant street cred.  Big East, great facilities, fan base was energized. Let's put it this way, a lot easier to step into that situation then what he stepped into at UNO or any number of other examples we could use.  He took it and ran with it, and for that I give him great credit.  He didn't just settle and coast, he did a really good job.  People will say how there wasn't so much talent coming back the year after, but I disagree.  Certainly not as much as year one, but the cupboard was hardly bare either.  No need to rehash that, it's been rehashed a million times.

He hit the ground running from a recruiting perspective and that was key. His coaching has improved, he's more seasoned.  We've have a few head scratchers and blowouts, but so does every coach.  Consistency of hard work by his teams have been there from day one on effort, which I love. 

As to your question, there are a lot of coaches that over a 5 year period that have been very good, some great.  I'm not sure where you are going with that, but there are many, some in our very own conference.  I think Buzz's teams have finished 5th, 5th, 9th, 2nd, 1st.  Two great years, two really good years, one so-so year.  Overall, really good.  Have there been coaches that have done better than that in a 5 year period...of course.  In our own conference, but again not sure what that really proves.  But if you wish, Boeheim went 6th, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 5th in the last 5, but if you're looking at any 5 year stretch he's done 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 3rd as just one example.  Calhoun once went 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st.  Jamie Dixon 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 13th, 4th in the last five.  Again, just in our own conference. 

I haven't even gone out of conference yet, so yes there are guys that have done it before or better.  Bo Ryan, Tom Izzo, Pitino, Donovan, Smart, Matta, Miller, Few, etc, etc.  What excites me is that in the last 2 years he's had a 2nd and a first with a very good team coming back next year.  You might see him put together a 5 year run of a 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd or something like that.  That's when you approach great stuff.  The NCAAs, you know how I feel about it.  Crapshoot.  This year easily (should have been) one and done.  We got lucky, but you take it, but that's the point...the line is very very thin on success and failure.  Some years we will come out on the wrong side of luck (Washington game), and some years we come out on the right side (Davidson).  That's the beauty of the tournament.  If G'Town doesn't play FGCU, maybe they go to the Final four if they were the #2 seed in another region with a 2 seed draw.  We will never know, it's all matchups and how you play THAT day.  The best team doesn't always win and since the coach can't make shots for players, the coach is often overly heralded or overly criticized...players play, not the coaches.

OMG

[jesmu84]

As to your question, there are a lot of coaches that over a 5 year period that have been very good, some great.  I'm not sure where you are going with that, but there are many, some in our very own conference.  I think Buzz's teams have finished 5th, 5th, 9th, 2nd, 1st.  Two great years, two really good years, one so-so year.  Overall, really good.  Have there been coaches that have done better than that in a 5 year period...of course.  In our own conference, but again not sure what that really proves.  But if you wish, Boeheim went 6th, 1st, 3rd, 1st, 5th in the last 5, but if you're looking at any 5 year stretch he's done 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 3rd as just one example.  Calhoun once went 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st.  Jamie Dixon 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 13th, 4th in the last five.  Again, just in our own conference. 

I haven't even gone out of conference yet, so yes there are guys that have done it before or better.  Bo Ryan, Tom Izzo, Pitino, Donovan, Smart, Matta, Miller, Few, etc, etc.  What excites me is that in the last 2 years he's had a 2nd and a first with a very good team coming back next year.  You might see him put together a 5 year run of a 2nd, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd or something like that.  That's when you approach great stuff.  The NCAAs, you know how I feel about it.  Crapshoot.  This year easily (should have been) one and done.  We got lucky, but you take it, but that's the point...the line is very very thin on success and failure.  Some years we will come out on the wrong side of luck (Washington game), and some years we come out on the right side (Davidson).  That's the beauty of the tournament.  If G'Town doesn't play FGCU, maybe they go to the Final four if they were the #2 seed in another region with a 2 seed draw.  We will never know, it's all matchups and how you play THAT day.  The best team doesn't always win and since the coach can't make shots for players, the coach is often overly heralded or overly criticized...players play, not the coaches.

So, you're saying those coaches had better 5 year stretches simply based on where they finished in conference play? You don't take into account the players they recruited or the preseason expectations/rankings? What about some of the "squirminess" of those coaches? They don't get demoted in your book, even though you note Buzz's "hiccups"?

[keefe]

My assessment....after 5 years, I think he's done a very solid job, with a few hiccups. 

Yer kidding me...right?? A "solid job?" Sounds like he took a sh1t. By any measure he has done an outstanding job.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So, you're saying those coaches had better 5 year stretches simply based on where they finished in conference play? You don't take into account the players they recruited or the preseason expectations/rankings? What about some of the "squirminess" of those coaches? They don't get demoted in your book, even though you note Buzz's "hiccups"?

Preseason rankings....are you kidding?  I think they are a complete joke.    I always have, always will. 

Squirminess, I expect more from MU, a school that has NEVER been on NCAA probation.  I expect looser behavior from those that have had their hands in the cookie jar.

Players recruited....I worry more about how they do on the basketball court.  Plenty of teams win without 5 star players...the object of the game is to win.  Buzz has done a great job at that.

Always glad to see Lenny's response.....OMG. 

Keefe, Buzz has done a solid job and inherited a great situation which he has done very well at.  Like I said, I love the results of the last year...conference championship, deep run in the NCAAs, no off the court BS and dragging the university through the mud.  He puts a few more of those together, graduates players, etc, I'll be right there with you.  Coaches don't walk on water, if others wish to  idolize them in that fashion, they are free to do so, just don't ask me to do it. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

And you are the one that likes to educate the masses on coachspeak. I can't believe this epistle is what took five years to marinate.

It took about 5 minutes, Frenns, but using the word epistle in a thread earns bonus points for sure.

Been awhile, I miss your stuff.  Remember when you wanted Jay Bilas as the head coach and thought Buzz = Pat Kennedy?      

[jesmu84]

Preseason rankings....are you kidding?  I think they are a complete joke.    I always have, always will. 

Squirminess, I expect more from MU, a school that has NEVER been on NCAA probation.  I expect looser behavior from those that have had their hands in the cookie jar.

Players recruited....I worry more about how they do on the basketball court.  Plenty of teams win without 5 star players...the object of the game is to win.  Buzz has done a great job at that.

Always glad to see Lenny's response.....OMG. 

Keefe, Buzz has done a solid job and inherited a great situation which he has done very well at.  Like I said, I love the results of the last year...conference championship, deep run in the NCAAs, no off the court BS and dragging the university through the mud.  He puts a few more of those together, graduates players, etc, I'll be right there with you.  Coaches don't walk on water, if others wish to  idolize them in that fashion, they are free to do so, just don't ask me to do it. 

I guess, from my perspective, you're holding Buzz to the level of HOF coaches or blue blood programs. I don't think MU is there, yet. So, to give Buzz a "solid" rating (on a grade scale, would be like a C+? B-?) is low-balling. I would love for Buzz to have multiple conference championships, multiple deep runs, no off court BS, etc. But is that realistic for Buzz/MU? It might very well be a hope, but looking at what Buzz has done so far, I don't know how you couldn't give him at least an A- (and that minus would simply be due to some off court stuff).

I guess I don't understand how you point to coaches like Boeheim and Calhoun as better 5 year stretches compared to this 5 year stretch for Buzz, when they definitely have tons of shady things going on. That just doesn't logically add-up. If you simply want to compare on court accolades, then yes, that's something Buzz should strive for. But, in your initial post, you brought up the "hiccups", so you have to take that into account when comparing those other coaches and their success.

[Lennys Tap]

Yer kidding me...right?? A "solid job?" Sounds like he took a sh1t. By any measure he has done an outstanding job.

He's not kidding. Put him in a room with 99 Marquette fans who know basketball and MU's history and he'll give Buzz the 100th best grade in the room. Because he's "objective". LOL

[MUfan12]

Yer kidding me...right?? A "solid job?" Sounds like he took a sh1t. By any measure he has done an outstanding job.

Agreed. To do what he did in 09-10, and 10-11 (after TC left the cupboard bare) was nothing short of incredible. Those teams had no business doing what they did. And to take this group, with all their warts, to an Elite 8 and a BE Title? Come on.

Honestly, I try not to get involved in these threads. But this was so outrageous I couldn't resist.

[The Lens]

The 2nd, 3rd and 4th best players on Buzz's 2nd team were jucos brought in by Buzz.  How in the world can anyone argue that behind the amigos & Lazar that Crean did not leave the cupboard bare?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I guess, from my perspective, you're holding Buzz to the level of HOF coaches or blue blood programs. I don't think MU is there, yet. So, to give Buzz a "solid" rating (on a grade scale, would be like a C+? B-?) is low-balling. I would love for Buzz to have multiple conference championships, multiple deep runs, no off court BS, etc. But is that realistic for Buzz/MU? It might very well be a hope, but looking at what Buzz has done so far, I don't know how you couldn't give him at least an A- (and that minus would simply be due to some off court stuff).

I guess I don't understand how you point to coaches like Boeheim and Calhoun as better 5 year stretches compared to this 5 year stretch for Buzz, when they definitely have tons of shady things going on. That just doesn't logically add-up. If you simply want to compare on court accolades, then yes, that's something Buzz should strive for. But, in your initial post, you brought up the "hiccups", so you have to take that into account when comparing those other coaches and their success.

I barely gave it any thought, but went right to our own conference for examples.  I would definitely give him an A-.  Problem is, some people will scream OMG and how dare you not give him an A+.  That's just how it is here.  He's done very well, walked into a fabulous situation and kept it going.  I'm glad he's our coach, I hope it continues like this past year.

[jesmu84]

I barely gave it any thought, but went right to our own conference for examples.  I would definitely give him an A-.  Problem is, some people will scream OMG and how dare you not give him an A+.  That's just how it is here.  He's done very well, walked into a fabulous situation and kept it going.  I'm glad he's our coach, I hope it continues like this past year.

I see. I guess we arrive at the same grade using different language. I agree people would scream at you for not giving him an A+, but I don't think it's warranted either.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I see. I guess we arrive at the same grade using different language. I agree people would scream at you for not giving him an A+, but I don't think it's warranted either.

I am in the same place on the grade.  I think Buzz grew the most, especially as the season progresses, in game management. Having ex-head coaches on the bench helped Buzz exponentially. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I would also come to the same conclusion -- Words are funny; I did not get that from the two earlier posts. 

Personally I don't think we could have ended in a much better spot looking back to '08.  I am happy with Buzz's recruiting and now that I have seen it very happy with where he is as a coach.

I barely gave it any thought, but went right to our own conference for examples.  I would definitely give him an A-.  Problem is, some people will scream OMG and how dare you not give him an A+.  That's just how it is here.  He's done very well, walked into a fabulous situation and kept it going.  I'm glad he's our coach, I hope it continues like this past year.

[Dawson Rental]

I was very happy with Buzz's hiring.  It became obvious fairly early in the search that snagging a successful coach from elsewhere wasn't going to happen unless we were willing to take someone with some warts which I think seldom works out well.  When you go for an assistant, the key thing to look for (and often the only thing you can get a decent feel for) IMO is their ability to recruit.  If you can't recruit, you can't build or even maintain a program.  With the expiration date on the three amigos fast approaching and the 2008 recruiting class falling apart that really had to be the emphasis.