Pernetti out as Rutgers AD

[Blackhat]

Mike Montgomery and big nose should be out.

[GGGG]

Ok, let's agree to have a list of acceptable verbally abusive terms. Maybe it should be limited to a private female body part and no gay slurs

There are no acceptable "verbally abusive terms."

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Mike Montgomery and big nose should be out.

why?

[AlienWarrior]

I would like to see a Bobby Knight comment.

Can you imagine having tapes of Knight's practices?

[AlienWarrior]

There are no acceptable "verbally abusive terms."

Ok, so If a coach calls a player "lazy" in a harsh tone, is that verbal abuse. You see where this is going?

[GGGG]

Ok, so If a coach calls a player "lazy" in a harsh tone, is that verbal abuse. You see where this is going?

Uhh...no.  Slippery slope arguments can be stupid when they are reduced to stuff like this.

[AlienWarrior]

Uhh...no.  Slippery slope arguments can be stupid when they are reduced to stuff like this.

It's just  coaching "political correctness"

[MUCam]

Question for Stone Cold and Alien Warrior:

Do you believe Mike Rice's behavior as depicted in the video is acceptable?

No, if's, and's or but's. No comparisons and no qualifications. Just, simply, do you find it acceptable? Yes or no.

[GGGG]

It's just  coaching "political correctness"

Uh...no.

If you can't see that calling someone a "f*ggot" is different than calling them "lazy," then I don't know what to say.

EDIT:  I had to modify this post because "f*ggot" auto-corrects to "handsome person."  LOL.

[Benny B]

Let's not forget that this happened on a campus where not more than three years ago they were subjected to fierce public debate and scrutiny as a result of a particular gay student's suicide.  Irrespective of your opinion on those events, the use of any homosexual slur in a typical university setting is grounds for immediate dismissal.  The failure to immediately dismiss someone for such is grounds for immediate dismissal (Pernetti).  The wanton failure to review despite being fully aware that video evidence of such acts existed is grounds for immediate dismissal (Barchi).

Rutgers got 2 of 3 right so far....  Barchi isn't going to last long because - surprisingly - the faculty is starting to step up; and things never bode well for a university president who loses the respect of the core employees of the university.

[AlienWarrior]

Question for Stone Cold and Alien Warrior:

Do you believe Mike Rice's behavior as depicted in the video is acceptable?

No, if's, and's or but's. No comparisons and no qualifications. Just, simply, do you find it acceptable? Yes or no.

No, but I like buts but not butts. I mean male butts

[MUCam]

No, but I like buts but not butts. I mean male butts

What about Butte? Do you like Butte?

It is a beautiful location, so weigh your answer carefully.

[4th and State]

What Rice did in the video is not acceptable and the University made the right decision.  Having said that, I'm fairly confident you could put together a few clips from several coaches around the country and find "unacceptable" behavior.  Just my 2 cents.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Can you imagine having tapes of Knight's practices?

I went to some of them.  I also went to some of KO's, Deane's, etc.   Lots of colorful, salty, not for virgin ears stuff.  Someone, somewhere will be offended.  It's a high testosterone sandbox and things get said that some folks don't understand or are too easily offended by.  Delicate flowers.  I don't condone what Rice said or did, but as stated earlier, people are naive as hell if they don't think this hasn't been going on for decades and still does in basketball, football, hockey, etc.  I've heard about it at a few women's practices as well (not MU).   If you win, it's tolerated.  If you aren't winning, bye bye.

[MerrittsMustache]

I went to some of them.  I also went to some of KO's, Deane's, etc.   Lots of colorful, salty, not for virgin ears stuff.  Someone, somewhere will be offended.  It's a high testosterone sandbox and things get said that some folks don't understand or are too easily offended by.  Delicate flowers.  I don't condone what Rice said or did, but as stated earlier, people are naive as hell if they don't think this hasn't been going on for decades and still does in basketball, football, hockey, etc.  I've heard about it at a few women's practices as well (not MU).   If you win, it's tolerated.  If you aren't winning, bye bye.

I assume that "etc" is Tom Crean? He was certainly no Tebow when it came to his use of the English language.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What Rice did in the video is not acceptable and the University made the right decision.  Having said that, I'm fairly confident you could put together a few clips from several coaches around the country and find "unacceptable" behavior.  Just my 2 cents.

Absolutely.  If the goal is to scour through 50 hours of video, you will be able to find 2 minutes of stuff (often out of context) that could paint coaches in a bad light, screaming, getting into someone's face, "pushing", colorful language.  I had someone tell me the other day they found it offensive that the word "pus**y" was used.  What's the line?  Where is it drawn?  Who draws it?  Is the line different if you have a Final Four or National Championship under your belt?

[MUCam]

Absolutely.  If the goal is to scour through 50 hours of video, you will be able to find 2 minutes of stuff (often out of context) that could paint coaches in a bad light, screaming, getting into someone's face, "pushing", colorful language.  I had someone tell me the other day they found it offensive that the word "pus**y" was used.  What's the line?  Where is it drawn?  Who draws it?  Is the line different if you have a Final Four or National Championship under your belt?

So the question for you is simple, like it was for Alien Warrior and Stone Cold.

Do you find what you saw in the Mike Rice video acceptable? Yes or no.

No explanations, no if's, and's, but's, butt's, or Butte's. No comparisons and no qualifications. Just, a simple yes or no.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So the question for you is simple, like it was for Alien Warrior and Stone Cold.

Do you find what you saw in the Mike Rice video acceptable? Yes or no.

No explanations, no if's, and's, but's, butt's, or Butte's. No comparisons. Just, a simple yes or no.

Life is not black and white.

So I will answer the question, but I will answer it completely.

"pushing"...no issue with it
cursing...no issue with it
homophobic slurs.....in today's PC world, can't do it and society has said unacceptable (to which I ask, what else is....pus**y ok?  douchebag ok?   Just asking)
throwing ball at head....unacceptable

Did he need to get fired?  Yes.   Is this stuff happening at many places to some degree?  Yes.  Do winning coaches have a longer leash?  Yes. 

[Goose]

Rice needed to be canned for the physical crap.

[MUCam]

Life is not black and white.

So I will answer the question, but I will answer it completely.

"pushing"...no issue with it
cursing...no issue with it
homophobic slurs.....in today's PC world, can't do it and society has said unacceptable (to which I ask, what else is....pus**y ok?  douchebag ok?   Just asking)
throwing ball at head....unacceptable

Did he need to get fired?  Yes.   Is this stuff happening at many places to some degree?  Yes.  Do winning coaches have a longer leash?  Yes. 

Life is absolutely not black and white. But you have to define the parameters of any discussion before you enter into it. Unfortunately, you have trouble defining the parameters. You have to qualify with comparisons.

I did not ask about other programs, emphasis on winning, etc. I asked if it is acceptable. Sadly, I can't get an answer without qualification.

I'll give you my answer. No. Not acceptable.

From that point, we can then discuss why. We can discuss which actions, if not all, are unacceptable. We can discuss whether, if it is not acceptable, it becomes acceptable about certain amount of success. We can discuss all the other things you want to bring up.

Too bad you simply couldn't have answered the question posed.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Rice needed to be canned for the physical crap.

MU would have lost a few coaches over the years.......


What is acceptable form of physicality?  I absolutely agree, throwing a ball at someone's head is just ridiculous.  Pushing them into position....I see no issue with that.  If a player takes the ball in the high post, and brings it down causing the coach to blow his whistle and then blast the player's wrists hard by slapping them and does this repeatedly, causing humiliation, pain, etc....is that ok?  Even if it teaches the player to no longer bring the ball down low anymore?

This is where these things always bother me because it starts to creep into the edges of an area where folks that don't understand athletics, don't understand locker rooms, etc, start to decide what can and can't be done.  In this case, I have no problem with the outcome, but I do wonder what happens when the next video tape shows a coach calling someone  a douche bag pus*y and people start demanding suspensions or firings because it bothers someone. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I assume that "etc" is Tom Crean? He was certainly no Tebow when it came to his use of the English language.

Never been to a Tom Crean practice.  Been to Knight, Deane, KO, Roy Williams, Ben Howland, etc, plus Angels baseball, Ducks hockey, a bunch of shoot around practices where things were not intense at all.  Never been to a TC practice, but from what I heard...yes, he absolutely would be included along with many coaches at this level.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Life is absolutely not black and white. But you have to define the parameters of any discussion before you enter into it. Unfortunately, you have trouble defining the parameters. You have to qualify with comparisons.

I did not ask about other programs, emphasis on winning, etc. I asked if it is acceptable. Sadly, I can't get an answer without qualification.

I'll give you my answer. No. Not acceptable.

From that point, we can then discuss why. We can discuss which actions, if not all, are unacceptable. We can discuss whether, if it is not acceptable, it becomes acceptable about certain amount of success. We can discuss all the other things you want to bring up.

Too bad you simply couldn't have answered the question posed.

Fair enough Cam, but ignoring the realities and those parameters makes it a different answer.  It just does.

If Tom Izzo called someone a homophobic slur on practice tape, would he be fired?  I would guess he would not.  I could be wrong, but that would be my guess.  Is it acceptable behavior?  No.

Is cursing at a player?  I have no problem with it, while many delicate flowers do. 

So, to me, define the parameters better.  A lot went on in that video tape.  Some is unacceptable, and some is perfectly fine for me.  It's not a simple yes or no answer.

[Goose]

Chico's

I am fully aware that in today's world MU would have lost numerous coaches if held to new standards. My take is the guy obviously is nuts and crossed the line too often. I agree that people that would not know how to put jockstrap on make broad, public statements with no knowledge of what goes on in a locker room. My guess is Fr. Kelley has seen quite a bit over the years and some not so good. That said, he understands how a locker room works and realizes a name called in locker room is not end of the world.

[AlienWarrior]

MU would have lost a few coaches over the years.......


What is acceptable form of physicality?  I absolutely agree, throwing a ball at someone's head is just ridiculous.  Pushing them into position....I see no issue with that.  If a player takes the ball in the high post, and brings it down causing the coach to blow his whistle and then blast the player's wrists hard by slapping them and does this repeatedly, causing humiliation, pain, etc....is that ok?  Even if it teaches the player to no longer bring the ball down low anymore?

This is where these things always bother me because it starts to creep into the edges of an area where folks that don't understand athletics, don't understand locker rooms, etc, start to decide what can and can't be done.  In this case, I have no problem with the outcome, but I do wonder what happens when the next video tape shows a coach calling someone  a douche bag pus*y and people start demanding suspensions or firings because it bothers someone. 

That's exactly what I've been saying. When does all this political correctness stop and yes Rice stepped over the line. The next time Rutgers orders Chinese it will be without rice