WSJ: To (All) the Colleges That Rejected Me

[ChicosBailBonds]

Forgetful

I am with you completely with you on work ethic. My Dad started with nothing and built a very successful business and worked long, long hours. I remember as a kid taking my Dad dinner with my Mom and watching eat while he worked. As a relatively small business owner, hoping to become  a little McKinsey I find myself working long, long hours like my Dad. I would not trade it for anything and still believe my company will become a little McKinsey.

I wish you well.  We deal with McKinsey as well as Bain all the time.  Sometimes I want to pull my hair out, and other times I realize just how smart those bastards are.  I don't know if the expense justifies the return, but they are a smart bunch and they will tell you that.   

[forgetful]

Forgetful

I am with you completely with you on work ethic. My Dad started with nothing and built a very successful business and worked long, long hours. I remember as a kid taking my Dad dinner with my Mom and watching eat while he worked. As a relatively small business owner, hoping to become  a little McKinsey I find myself working long, long hours like my Dad. I would not trade it for anything and still believe my company will become a little McKinsey.

Goose, from what you post on here about your life, it sounds like you have the experience, knowledge and dedication to get it done.  I wish you luck. 

The one thing about Mckinsey is the treasure trove of internal documents that they can rely on when working with companies. 

Hard work and creative thinking though can provide a niche market that will allow one to succeed.

[Goose]

Chico's and forgetful

Thank you for your kind words.

[keefe]

Yeah, this is the one through Switzerland.  It just so happens the high school down the street from us is one of only three in Orange County (they also have AP as well).  The biggest concern I have is his athletics desire.  He's a terrific goalie and will make the team next year if he goes out...a pretty good football player and would also make the team.  Of the IB kids at the high school, only 2 are currently in athletics because of the rigors.  We are a minority in our city as it is heavily Asian, the competition academically is beyond fierce.  We'll see how it goes, he has some decisions to make.  We've interviewed a few kids that did the IB program and those that did the AP program and played sports.  All ended up attending very good schools for college.  We're surrounded by two of the top 5 high schools in the country (one rating service  http://www.university-list.net/us/rank/school-100001.html  ) , so the academic influence here is non-stop...too much in my opinion.  They don't get to be kids in my opinion.

If IB is an option there is no question you pursue it. All of our kids did IB at English Schools Foundation in HK, Jakarta International School, St Mary's in Tokyo, and Tanglin Trust in Singapore. All three combined sports with IB and their classroom performance was fine. In fact, I believe that extracurriculars are mandatory in IB, including sports. If anything it really did hone their time management skills.

Son II ended up getting a football scholarship to Wazzou. He majored in Sports Med at WSU and parlayed that into Med School at Michigan so it's possible to play at a high level and still succeed in the classroom. If you were to ask him he will tell you he has had no life since arriving in the Palouse several years ago but I seem to recall he enjoyed himself quite a bit in Pullman. I think got a lot tougher once he arrived in Ann Arbor but that is med school anywhere.

Encourage your son to keep playing soccer while pursuing the IB. I know the Swiss Foundation makes sports participation mandatory so he might as well continue in a sport he excels at. If he has half the energy you seem to have he'll do just fine.

[keefe]

And after legacies, athletes and arts programs are filled, there are even fewer spots

against whom a non athlete non legacy is competing  

None of this is correct.

[keefe]

I wish you well.  We deal with McKinsey as well as Bain all the time.  Sometimes I want to pull my hair out, and other times I realize just how smart those bastards are.  I don't know if the expense justifies the return, but they are a smart bunch and they will tell you that.   

My favorite McKinsey moment was when a snot nosed 25 year old MBA was lecturing the very well regarded Managing Director of GE Medical China on how to run his business. After about 10 minutes of incredibly condescending BS the 42 year old senior executive interrupted the Power Point Bataan Death March and asked the McKinsey kid in fluent Mandarin, "How many companies have you run?" The snot nosed MBA was perplexed and asked for a translation. The GE exec repeated the question in English and the McKinsey kid admitted he had never run a company. The GE exec kicked the snot nosed MBA out of his office, telling him to come back only when he spoke Mandarin and had actual success running a company in China.

 

[keefe]

Eh...

Impress with your accomplishments...not your hours.  I view my job as continuously working, just some times harder than other times.  I'm probably in the office about 40-45 hours a week, but that doesn't preclude me from working at home in the evenings or on the weekends.

45 hours wouldn't cut it in the best companies. And not because of lack of productivity.

[keefe]

Forgetful

I am with you completely with you on work ethic. My Dad started with nothing and built a very successful business and worked long, long hours. I remember as a kid taking my Dad dinner with my Mom and watching eat while he worked. As a relatively small business owner, hoping to become  a little McKinsey I find myself working long, long hours like my Dad. I would not trade it for anything and still believe my company will become a little McKinsey.

Goose

I would love to hear more about what you are building. Sounds fun, actually. Hang tough my friend. Like a beautiful woman, China beguiles but the more frustrating and maddening she is the more you want her.

 

[Sunbelt15]

Sounds like a chick that knew what she wanted, was misinformed on how to obtain it, and is now pissed at the world. Reasonable, but that's life. Welcome to it! If she does what she needs to do at Michigan, there's a word called TRANSFER she might be interested in. Shhhh......Family Guy is on! Love that Stewie!

[ChicosBailBonds]

My favorite McKinsey moment was when a snot nosed 25 year old MBA was lecturing the very well regarded Managing Director of GE Medical China on how to run his business. After about 10 minutes of incredibly condescending BS the 42 year old senior executive interrupted the Power Point Bataan Death March and asked the McKinsey kid in fluent Mandarin, "How many companies have you run?" The snot nosed MBA was perplexed and asked for a translation. The GE exec repeated the question in English and the McKinsey kid admitted he had never run a company. The GE exec kicked the snot nosed MBA out of his office, telling him to come back only when he spoke Mandarin and had actual success running a company in China.

 

Yup, that sounds about right.  Of course, they are not all like that, but I've had a few that spent months putting together something for us and I told them from day one the path they were going down we had tried numerous times, it doesn't work.  They decided against that advice, implemented it, and 4 months later yanked it out because...surprise...it didn't work.   

They do provide value, for us anyway, at the highest level in terms of strategy, looking out over the horizon 5, 10, 15 years.  Its when they get into some of the weeds that I get nervous because they aren't living, breathing this stuff 365 for 15 years like we have.

[Tugg Speedman]

This isn't actually correct. My wife and I have done interviews for Harvard and Columbia respectively. The university and gaining college send out a cheat sheet on the candidate and these notes are specific to that person. The focus is not on any sort of diversity, I can assure you. And yes, alumni interviews are a crucial hurdle in the process. An alumnus can and should be a gate keeper as this might be the first and only personal interaction the school has with the applicant before rendering an acceptance decision. I will tell you that we evaluated many things including table manners and social grace.

My High School senior daughter is gong to Harvard this fall.  And my understanding of the process is pretty much what keefe wrote.

Without laundry listing her accomplishments/resume I will summarize it by saying it is what you would expect of a kid going to Harvard.  But if their were two "x-factors" that helped here they were ...

* Harvard thinks highly of her school.  Throughout the year College representatives come to her High School to pitch kids on attending their school.  Harvard sent five people, including Bill Fitzsimmons, the head of admissions (he was quoted in the article on page 1).  The local chapter of the Harvard club invited all the applicants to a reception earlier this year (not just her school but other schools from the area).  Most of the other Ivies, Stanford, Wash U, most of the B1G, U of Chicago, etc made a similar kind of effort.  (She goes to a private independent school in Chicago).

Earlier I asked if the ivies send representatives to your school.  To the admission department some high schools mean more than others and they actively recruit kids from these high schools.  My impression is kids from those high schools "get the tie" as they have a proven track record of success at their college.  (Incidentally, 3 kids from her class are going to Harvard next fall and they will have a total of 8 from her school next year.  Her graduating class will be 106 next month.)

* The interview mattered.  For selective colleges these are not merely formalities or marketing/rah-rah sessions.  The interviewer is the "eyes and ears" of the admission department and both the interviewer and admission department take them seriously.  My daughter had contact with her interviewer several times after the first and formal interview was over.  Her interviewer was a well respected doctor in Chicago in her mid-40s who we did not know.  We thought her interviewer was feeling her out more and then decided to lobby for her admittance.  Again this is our impression so we believe, like keefe said, that these things matter.

Earlier it was noted that kids that go to selective colleges "check the boxes."  After going through this process the boxes are not the kid starting a charity or joining every club as the WSJ article says.  Instead those "boxes" are you school's reputation and your interview.

Finally, my daughter's high school had legacies of Harvard that did not get in.  My wife and I are MU grads.

[ChicosBailBonds]

If IB is an option there is no question you pursue it. All of our kids did IB at English Schools Foundation in HK, Jakarta International School, St Mary's in Tokyo, and Tanglin Trust in Singapore. All three combined sports with IB and their classroom performance was fine. In fact, I believe that extracurriculars are mandatory in IB, including sports. If anything it really did hone their time management skills.

Son II ended up getting a football scholarship to Wazzou. He majored in Sports Med at WSU and parlayed that into Med School at Michigan so it's possible to play at a high level and still succeed in the classroom. If you were to ask him he will tell you he has had no life since arriving in the Palouse several years ago but I seem to recall he enjoyed himself quite a bit in Pullman. I think got a lot tougher once he arrived in Ann Arbor but that is med school anywhere.

Encourage your son to keep playing soccer while pursuing the IB. I know the Swiss Foundation makes sports participation mandatory so he might as well continue in a sport he excels at. If he has half the energy you seem to have he'll do just fine.

It's an interesting debate right now that several of the kids and the parents are all struggling with. I'd like him to do it.  My wife, smart gal and daughter of a MU grad (medical school) believes that we suffocating kids and taking away their childhood....other families are split as well.  He's going to start it freshman year and track through IB, but the program doesn't officially start until Sophomore through Senior years, so he can see how it's going.

I'll definitely encourage him on the soccer.  One of my great regrets in life is not walking on at MU for soccer.  There were a number of D3 schools I could have played at here that were very solid academically.  I opted for MU and heard so many horror stories about the coach back then that I didn't give it a whirl.  That sticks in my craw.

[Ari Gold]

I agree with you on your statement about our inexperience in the real world. But then what separates us from the generations before? Why are we the "entitled" generation? What makes the older people call us that? Were they the same at one point in their lives and just don't realize it? Or do we actually have a different mentality and, if we do, how did that come to be?

I think they were at some point. I was delusional going into college and after graduating, I had that wake up call. I'm happy with where I am now. I'd have to lay blame on another cliche though: media and technology. Older generations didn't have online news, blogs, 24 news channels, FB, twitter and the YouTubes. The ease of sharing information and things that become popular quickly means stories are just easier to notice.

Basically, I'm sure many of us felt the way of the girl after getting rejected from a school. But even a college applicant in the mid-90s- even early 2000s that wrote this column for the WSJ would never have gotten the same level of attention

[4everwarriors]

Just to clarify, not all legacies are created equal. Vast difference between a donor legacy and a legacy. In addition, the dude who throws a C note in the kitty the year Jr. applies, is not looked upon like the cat who has been writin' the check for the past 20 years.

[keefe]

Yup, that sounds about right.  Of course, they are not all like that, but I've had a few that spent months putting together something for us and I told them from day one the path they were going down we had tried numerous times, it doesn't work.  They decided against that advice, implemented it, and 4 months later yanked it out because...surprise...it didn't work.   

They do provide value, for us anyway, at the highest level in terms of strategy, looking out over the horizon 5, 10, 15 years.  Its when they get into some of the weeds that I get nervous because they aren't living, breathing this stuff 365 for 15 years like we have.

At PepsiCo we used BCG more than McKinsey. Consultancies interfaced through Strat Planning so we spent hours together. I was generally more favorably impressed with BCG as they tried to know your business more than the McKinsey conceptual model approach. As such, BCG crafted more practical solutions that addressed real challenges. McKinsey is great at the high altitude stuff but in emerging markets prognostications are rubbish within 12-18 months.

Here is my bottom line: Big MNCs contract with consultancies for 3 basic reasons:

1. Every one knows the answer but it is so controversial that nobody wants their finger prints on it
2. There is a great internal divide on strategy or direction so consultants are brought in to cast the deciding vote
3. It enables painful decisions to be made, especially with regard to outsourcing, downsizing, or market/vertical exit

Getting insight because senior management is perplexed is the rarest of reasons to bring in consultants because of senior management ego. If this is genuinely the reason consultants are retained it is often couched in terms of being a periodic market health check. Corporate C-level execs rarely admit defeat or ignorance, from my experience. Jack Welch is a notable exception.

[keefe]

My High School senior daughter is gong to Harvard this fall.  And my understanding of the process is pretty much what keefe wrote.

Without laundry listing her accomplishments/resume I will summarize it by saying it is what you would expect of a kid going to Harvard.  But if their were two "x-factors" that helped here they were ...

* Harvard thinks highly of her school.  Throughout the year College representatives come to her High School to pitch kids on attending their school.  Harvard sent five people, including Bill Fitzsimmons, the head of admissions (he was quoted in the article on page 1).  The local chapter of the Harvard club invited all the applicants to a reception earlier this year (not just her school but other schools from the area).  Most of the other Ivies, Stanford, Wash U, most of the B1G, U of Chicago, etc made a similar kind of effort.  (She goes to a private independent school in Chicago).

Earlier I asked if the ivies send representatives to your school.  To the admission department some high schools mean more than others and they actively recruit kids from these high schools.  My impression is kids from those high schools "get the tie" as they have a proven track record of success at their college.  (Incidentally, 3 kids from her class are going to Harvard next fall and they will have a total of 8 from her school next year.  Her graduating class will be 106 next month.)

* The interview mattered.  For selective colleges these are not merely formalities or marketing/rah-rah sessions.  The interviewer is the "eyes and ears" of the admission department and both the interviewer and admission department take them seriously.  My daughter had contact with her interviewer several times after the first and formal interview was over.  Her interviewer was a well respected doctor in Chicago in her mid-40s who we did not know.  We thought her interviewer was feeling her out more and then decided to lobby for her admittance.  Again this is our impression so we believe, like keefe said, that these things matter.

Earlier it was noted that kids that go to selective colleges "check the boxes."  After going through this process the boxes are not the kid starting a charity or joining every club as the WSJ article says.  Instead those "boxes" are you school's reputation and your interview.

Finally, my daughter's high school had legacies of Harvard that did not get in.  My wife and I are MU grads.

84

Congrats to your daughter on a wonderful milestone! She will have a tremendous experience. I was in no way ready for that challenge when I was 17. Marquette was perfect for me in many ways. I am certain your daughter is far smarter and much more mature than I was at her age!

I cannot stress how important is the alumnus interview for gaining acceptance into an Ivy. The interviewer can bring an app to a screeching halt. I have done this more than once. Most of my interviews were in Asia and many kids look great on paper but were too limited, shallow, or vertical in their thinking or experience to add something valuable to the university community. An important point is that the interviewer is not looking at how the school can help you. Quite the contrary. The Ivy looks at how the individual can benefit the college community while matriculating. Longer term we assess how this person will represent the university beyond the campus.

The Unabomber was graduated from both Michigan and Harvard. I believe both schools, in retrospect, looked at how limited and narrow he really was and reflected on the admission criteria that brought him into both communities. The man has a brilliant brain but is a fractured soul. The interview process as I know it would never consider such a one-dimensional person and would have weeded him out early on.

The interviewer considers many things including family. I know that both my wife and I received "gifts" from interviewee parents. In every case these were returned. This was a fine line for us because such customs are inherent in Asian culture but we were smart enough to discern between the gracious gesture and the blatant influence peddle. We felt comfortable returning gifts, which ranged from baskets to vouchers to cash, as we were judging entrance into a western institution. One applicant was superbly qualified and would have made a exceptional candidate but her father was shameless in his lobbying through money and gifts. Think of it as a shielding Harvard from Tim Maymon when I shut down her app. Ethics, integrity, and character most definitely factor in the decision.

An interviewer cannot always guarantee admission but can in every case deny it. This is a must-do hurdle for every applicant, except for a very few special legacies. Without betraying anything proprietary, an interviewer can ensure admission for a very select few candidates on the basis of certain stringent criteria. But that is the exception and not the rule. In most cases the interviewer does not recommend admission but when he does the name goes into a much smaller pool. The winnowing process does rely heavily on the strength of the interviewer's comments. Admissions staff can and do reach out for clarity and amplification. It is during this phase of dialogue when an interviewer can advocate aggressively to champion an applicant's cause.

Finally, there is exceptional integrity in the process. I was asked to interview the grandson of a government minister in Singapore. I recused myself as my employer was involved in a major enterprise with that Ministry. All of this was transparent to the applicant and his grandfather and the interview was handled by another alum who was involved in a completely different industry. This is much less an issue in Singapore where the rule of law is stringently observed but in other Asian jurisdictions it can be a problem.

84, best wishes to your daughter on her admission to Harvard college. I hope she finds the experience everything it can be!

[ChicosBailBonds]

At PepsiCo we used BCG more than McKinsey. Consultancies interfaced through Strat Planning so we spent hours together. I was generally more favorably impressed with BCG as they tried to know your business more than the McKinsey conceptual model approach. As such, BCG crafted more practical solutions that addressed real challenges. McKinsey is great at the high altitude stuff but in emerging markets prognostications are rubbish within 12-18 months.

Here is my bottom line: Big MNCs contract with consultancies for 3 basic reasons:

1. Every one knows the answer but it is so controversial that nobody wants their finger prints on it
2. There is a great internal divide on strategy or direction so consultants are brought in to cast the deciding vote
3. It enables painful decisions to be made, especially with regard to outsourcing, downsizing, or market/vertical exit

Getting insight because senior management is perplexed is the rarest of reasons to bring in consultants because of senior management ego. If this is genuinely the reason consultants are retained it is often couched in terms of being a periodic market health check. Corporate C-level execs rarely admit defeat or ignorance, from my experience. Jack Welch is a notable exception.

Did you know Mike White at PepsiCo?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Pretty amazing the schools that MU offspring are going to.  Congratulations, all

[keefe]

Did you know Mike White at PepsiCo?

I did, actually. Mike was a Cola operator while I was a Food Strat Planner. I worked in Asia for PFI (PepsiCo Foods International) which went away in a reorg after I left. I had forgotten he left PepsiCo to take over DirecTV. Mike is very charismatic and has a memory like a steel trap. He would remember me from setting up a week in San Diego for Bob Hunter. Long story but Mike was part of the fun.

I am much more familiar with Steve Reinemund who was a Naval Aviator and UVA MBA. Reinemund always gave me sh1t about being an F 16 driver. Steve ran Pizza Hut out of Wichita and PHI - Asia/Pacific was part of my Strat Planning portfolio. He oversaw PH's aggressive international growth and marked ramp up in earnings which landed him the PepsiCo CEO job; his fastest and largest growth market was China so I had a lot of interaction with him.

I was a contemporary of Indra Nooyi. We were in Planning together at the same time though she was based out of Purchase. Indra is brilliant but she has struggled as PepsiCo's CEO. I have my thoughts on that but it's best I keep them off this board.

Is Mike still running you guys? I would like to think your clever ad copy has Mike's DNA in it. Certainly that Genie with spread legs holding your logo smacks of his brand of...wit.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I did, actually. Mike was a Cola operator while I was a Food Strat Planner. I worked in Asia for PFI (PepsiCo Foods International) which went away in a reorg after I left. I had forgotten he left PepsiCo to take over DirecTV. Mike is very charismatic and has a memory like a steel trap. He would remember me from setting up a week in San Diego for Bob Hunter. Long story but Mike was part of the fun.

I am much more familiar with Steve Reinemund who was a Naval Aviator and UVA MBA. Reinemund always gave me sh1t about being an F 16 driver. Steve ran Pizza Hut out of Wichita and PHI - Asia/Pacific was part of my Strat Planning portfolio. He oversaw PH's aggressive international growth and marked ramp up in earnings which landed him the PepsiCo CEO job; his fastest and largest growth market was China so I had a lot of interaction with him.

I was a contemporary of Indra Nooyi. We were in Planning together at the same time though she was based out of Purchase. Indra is brilliant but she has struggled as PepsiCo's CEO. I have my thoughts on that but it's best I keep them off this board.

Is Mike still running you guys? I would like to think your clever ad copy has Mike's DNA in it. Certainly that Genie with spread legs holding your logo smacks of his brand of...wit.

Yes, Mike is still our CEO.  I had the honor of sitting with him at a table two months ago for our annual awards for marketing, sales, etc.  All of us that were up for the top award got to sit with the big man...a fun two hours. He does have a memory for a steel trap.  Smart as heck...anyone that self teaches himself Russian like he did is impressive.

He once came into my office with all my Marquette stuff and he said "Do you know Father Leahy?"  I had to tell him Father Leahy was one of my bosses at Marquette when I was there....it lead to a very long conversation about college athletics, Jesuit education (he's a BC grad), etc. 

He's done well for us.   

Actually, the ad stuff we do is straight out of our department...our CMO is brilliant (crazy, but brilliant  ) and Mike has consistent said our marketing is one of the best in the country, definitely the best in our industry.  I was rather surprised we brought in a CEO from outside the industry, but he has done a great job.  Stock is near $60 and it was in the high $20's when he took over if I recall....I'm not complaining.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Did you know Mike White at PepsiCo?

Has it been five years yet?  Is he still weeping on national TV?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Has it been five years yet?  Is he still weeping on national TV?

Coaches...5 years.  Other jobs, not so much, but yes you still have to give it some time.  Simple reason, you are coaching other coaches players and you need to time to see how he will recruit, how other teams respond to his style, etc.

See Mike Deane.  See Bruiser Flint.  Etc.


Other jobs, no.  Not a good comparison at all.

[Tugg Speedman]

Michigan is a great, nay, superb school.  I'd even argue that it's better than Vandy by almost every measure.  

In any case, my advice to this girl is to stop comparing yourself to others; use your own past achievements as a measuring stick.  I find that going through life is much easier that way.

After one gets I to Michigan they have a separate school within Michigan called the honors program.  It has its own dorms and its own elective classes.  It's admittance rate is as low as an Ivy and these kids are considered the best Michigan has.

I wonder if Suzy Lee Weiss is in this program.

[Tugg Speedman]

Pretty amazing the schools that MU offspring are going to.  Congratulations, all

Thank you Keefe and CBB ... To be clear, I did not do anything, I just get the bill

[Goose]

AnotherMU84


My bet you were big part of her success. Plus, picking up the stiff is big responsibility. Congrats to your daughter!!