WSJ: To (All) the Colleges That Rejected Me

[GGGG]

I love that this conversation is happening in the middle of a work day

Scoop helps my productivity....that's my story.

[Marquette Gyros]

+1s all around

[JD]

Hard work definitely isn't the answer nowadays when it comes to the office enviornment.  I'm not going to gloat, and say what an amazing worker i am, but it seems that if you agree to do something once in the office, you just surrendered to doing that task for the rest of your tenure.  Numbers don't mean everything where i work, i know darn well that means nothing.

Just be hot, give good ________  and you'll make it far.  (no teal)

[MerrittsMustache]

I love that this conversation is happening in the middle of a work day

This made me laugh.

You're going places in this world, Vic!

[Ari Gold]

I'm relatively young (graduated in 2007) and have issues with this. Yes, my generation is absolutely delusional about those times. We were delusional about a lot of things before reaching milestone times in our lives. But why were we so delusional? Because our parents, teachers, mentors, etc were all telling us we could do whatever we wanted and become whatever we wanted and we were all "special", "unique". Simple fact is we aren't special or unique. And most of us can't do whatever we want. All the encouraging, optimistic speeches and quotes left us very delusional. It isn't fair to rant about kids feeling entitled when we were taught/told from a very young age that we are entitled. As I've grown up, I've learned a lot about the real world and how things work (and i'm still learning!). It just strikes me as a bit ironic.

Also, hard work rarely seems to get you anywhere in life these days. It's more about who you know and where you happen to be at a certain time. Luck/timing plays a huge role in success.

Which actually makes me younger than you... I dont think it has to do with parents and mentors and such as much as it has to do with the inexperience of never being in "the real world." The fact that nobody caries about you (until you miss a student loan payment) is a harsh wake up following 4 years of college. When your in college the "paying your dues" thing doesn't seem to sink in.

[jesmu84]

Which actually makes me younger than you... I dont think it has to do with parents and mentors and such as much as it has to do with the inexperience of never being in "the real world." The fact that nobody caries about you (until you miss a student loan payment) is a harsh wake up following 4 years of college. When your in college the "paying your dues" thing doesn't seem to sink in.

I agree with you on your statement about our inexperience in the real world. But then what separates us from the generations before? Why are we the "entitled" generation? What makes the older people call us that? Were they the same at one point in their lives and just don't realize it? Or do we actually have a different mentality and, if we do, how did that come to be?

[akmarq]

Were they the same at one point in their lives and just don't realize it?

There's your answer.

[Hards Alumni]

There's your answer.

From my point of view, the competition these days, academically speaking, is much higher.  The population is much higher than it was even 20 years ago, and there aren't very many new Universities (I'm just going to go ahead and not count U of Phoenix, etc.) popping up.  Sure, enrollment has increased, but I doubt that it has kept up with population...

Or, who knows, I could be totally wrong.  Could the expert on this (Terror Skink, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I miss The Sultan) give some insight?

[GGGG]

From my point of view, the competition these days, academically speaking, is much higher.  The population is much higher than it was even 20 years ago, and there aren't very many new Universities (I'm just going to go ahead and not count U of Phoenix, etc.) popping up.  Sure, enrollment has increased, but I doubt that it has kept up with population...

Or, who knows, I could be totally wrong.  Could the expert on this (Terror Skink, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I miss The Sultan) give some insight?

By and large you are correct.  The vast majority of the increase in college enrollment has been at the two-year college level.  And that is probably OK - that's what those schools were designed to do in the first place.

OTOH, access to a four-year college immediately out of high school can be a challenge for kids in certain states, and that has caused them to open some schools.  (Florida Gulf Coast is a perfect example of that....Cal State Channel Islands is another.)  But increasing enrollment at an existing campus is easier and usually cheaper.  Texas State in San Marcos has increased their enrollment by almost 50% over the past ten years - from about 23,000 in 2003 to over 34,000 this year.

[Tugg Speedman]

From my point of view, the competition these days, academically speaking, is much higher.  The population is much higher than it was even 20 years ago, and there aren't very many new Universities (I'm just going to go ahead and not count U of Phoenix, etc.) popping up.  Sure, enrollment has increased, but I doubt that it has kept up with population...

Or, who knows, I could be totally wrong.  Could the expert on this (Terror Skink, I think I speak for everyone when I say that I miss The Sultan) give some insight?

The difference today is the common application.

For you old farts without high school age kids, most colleges (including the ivies) now accept the common application online.  It is what the name implies.  Once done with the common application, you are essentially done with 80% of the typical university application.

Individual schools may require supplement information but common application is the bulk of the work.  So, applying to another school is just a few mouse clicks (and another application fee) and reworking some supplemental information from one school to the next.

This means their is an explosion of applications for all schools.  For instance my High School Senior daughter applied to 9 schools.  When I applied, putting the application in the typewriter and carefully filling it out, would be too much to apply to nine schools.

So, all colleges get more applications making all colleges harder to get into.

[muwarrior69]

I graduated with a BS in Chemistry and Biology from MU in '69. Two of my High School buddies graduated from the Ivies Princeton and Harvard and both went on for their MBAs. They are still working, have debt, and paying off their mortgages. I am now retired and have no debt. Sometimes I believe it is what you do with your education, but more importantly one must learn to live not only within your means but well below you means.

[Warriors10]

Well this article does nothing but prove those schools were right in rejecting her...

[keefe]

this whole thread makes me thing of the guy from the movie 21 where the guy needed needed "life experience" to get into Harvard med school even though he had perfect grades at MIT.

Must be a movie. If you are a student at any Harvard college you can take any class at MIT (and vice versa.) I took classes at Sloan and there were Sloan students in classes at HBS. 

[keefe]

Michigan is a great, nay, superb school.  I'd even argue that it's better than Vandy by almost every measure.  

In any case, my advice to this girl is to stop comparing yourself to others; use your own past achievements as a measuring stick.  I find that going through life is much easier that way.

Michigan is a great school. She will do just fine in life with that credential.

[keefe]

So not true. Almost everyone slacks. The average work ethic in corporate America is a joke.

Working 8-6 (or more) instead of 9-5 will get you ahead, noticed, etc. because most of the "competition" is weak as unnatural carnal knowledge.

I believe that varies by company and one's level.

[keefe]

Harvard and other Ivies have made it very clear that they don't simply accept those with the highest GPAs, standardized test scores, etc. or those who check the most boxes.  They are going to have a diverse class...and by diverse I mean not just racial diversity...but different backgrounds of all types.  Geographic...income...etc. 

This isn't actually correct. My wife and I have done interviews for Harvard and Columbia respectively. The university and gaining college send out a cheat sheet on the candidate and these notes are specific to that person. The focus is not on any sort of diversity, I can assure you. And yes, alumni interviews are a crucial hurdle in the process. An alumnus can and should be a gate keeper as this might be the first and only personal interaction the school has with the applicant before rendering an acceptance decision. I will tell you that we evaluated many things including table manners and social grace.

The only express lane interviews were for legacy candidates and these were not a gimme by any stretch but certainly less rigorous. And funnily enough, both the Harvard and Columbia screening is incredibly similar. The evaluative criteria both schools ask us to address are essentially the same and have little to do with the empirically evident. An interviewer has the complete package and so you know the facts and figures but that only establishes a baseline from which to look deeper at a candidate. For instance, a young person might be his class val but I am more interested to hear about his summer in Peru or her thoughts on Kim Jong Il.

Our daughter is a legacy but her getting into Columbia undergrad was not a given. In her case, a life spent abroad in foreign cultures, educated in international schools, and being fluent in several languages were more compelling than her mother's diploma from Columbia. She has been accepted for graduate study beginning this fall at Harvard and her legacy status was less relevant than her work of the past few years at the Clinton Foundation.

I can't speak for all Ivies but we know about Harvard and Columbia and diversity is a factor but not in any way an imperative. The single most important reason driving diversity is compliance with Federal guidelines. Beyond that class composition is based on many other factors that are, quite frankly, far more important than any sort of diversity.

[keefe]

My son is going into the international baccalaureate program next year

This is a very important credential. Our three went through IB programs in International Schools and this is huge. I can tell you, too, that Harvard and Columbia place a great deal of weight on an IB v a conventional diploma. Having said which, some schools call their curriculum IB but a true IB is accredited through the Foundation in Switzerland and that is the only IB cert recognized by the best schools in America. An important factor, too, is the number of IB accredited faculty. Ask questions because there is a lot of fraud out there surrounding "IB" diplomas.

 

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is a very important credential. Our three went through IB programs in International Schools and this is huge. I can tell you, too, that Harvard and Columbia place a great deal of weight on an IB v a conventional diploma. Having said which, some schools call their curriculum IB but a true IB is accredited through the Foundation in Switzerland and that is the only IB cert recognized by the best schools in America. An important factor, too, is the number of IB accredited faculty. Ask questions because there is a lot of fraud out there surrounding "IB" diplomas.

 

Yeah, this is the one through Switzerland.  It just so happens the high school down the street from us is one of only three in Orange County (they also have AP as well).  The biggest concern I have is his athletics desire.  He's a terrific goalie and will make the team next year if he goes out...a pretty good football player and would also make the team.  Of the IB kids at the high school, only 2 are currently in athletics because of the rigors.  We are a minority in our city as it is heavily Asian, the competition academically is beyond fierce.  We'll see how it goes, he has some decisions to make.  We've interviewed a few kids that did the IB program and those that did the AP program and played sports.  All ended up attending very good schools for college.  We're surrounded by two of the top 5 high schools in the country (one rating service  http://www.university-list.net/us/rank/school-100001.html  ) , so the academic influence here is non-stop...too much in my opinion.  They don't get to be kids in my opinion.

[Goose]

Chico's

Hockey or soccer goalie?

[forgetful]

As a member of 'this generation' (who recently graduated, has a job, is is prepping for grad school), I'd encourage all the 'these kids are awful' crowd to look in the mirror. You guys raised 'this generation.' If it's as bad as you say, maybe you should have done a better job.

Consider this a friendly reminder that your parents said the same thing about your generation.

(I don't actually think you old farts did a bad job, but I also think that the whole 'kids these days' schtick gets a little old).

I'll also assume that using the wrong form of 'their' when insulting a generation's critical thinking skills was really subtle satire.

Grammar has nothing to do with critical thinking skills.  Anyone that wants to say that I am loose with my grammar is 100% correct.  As for this generation, I am referring to changes even in the last 3-5 years.  There are obvious reasons for this change in opinions and thinking skills and I am fully aware of where the fault lies.  That doesn't change the fact that the current crop of students as a whole has poorer critical thinking skills and has a unique sense of entitlement.  Also this clearly does not apply to all people.

I also think that most of the complaints of the generation before before mine are well placed.  Fact of the matter is that we have progressively deteriorated in many capacities.

[forgetful]

When someone around here tells me they work regular 10-12 hour days, I generally think to myself "man...you aren't very efficient."

I know lots of people, including myself who regularly work 10-12 or longer hour days a minimum of 6 days a week.  They are also the most efficient people I have ever seen.

If you are not working 10-12 hour days, I fear that either you are not dedicated to your job, or frankly that the job really isn't that important. 

Imagine if your doctors only worked an 8 hour day or if scientists said, you know what a cure for diabetes/cancer/tuberculosis isn't that important.  If the people of America's greatest generation decided that an 8 hour day was sufficient, where would this country be.

Try working at a consulting firm like Mckinsey and work an 8 hour day. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chico's

Hockey or soccer goalie?

Soccer.  I wish it was hockey, so does he....he's a hockey fanatic but that wasn't in the cards.

You can't even really see his head in this shot because he is bending back so far, just the very top of his very blonde hair.

 

He's always been a good athlete....Little League All-Stars, Soccer All-Stars, Football....but he's stuck with his dad's and mom's body which means he better continue to nail it in the classroom.   

[forgetful]

Soccer.  I wish it was hockey, so does he....he's a hockey fanatic but that wasn't in the cards.

You can't even really see his head in this shot because he is bending back so far, just the very top of his very blonde hair.

 

He's always been a good athlete....Little League All-Stars, Soccer All-Stars, Football....but he's stuck with his dad's and mom's body which means he better continue to nail it in the classroom.   

OMG what happened to his head.  He has no head.  Hell of a goalie for not having a head.

[Goose]

Chico's

My oldest son was a hockey goalie and my daughter was a soccer goalie. Hockey is a blast, but my daughter opened up a ton of doors for college next year. She goes to IB school and not sure if soccer or school opened the doors for her. Hope your son has great time in the net.

[Goose]

Forgetful

I am with you completely with you on work ethic. My Dad started with nothing and built a very successful business and worked long, long hours. I remember as a kid taking my Dad dinner with my Mom and watching eat while he worked. As a relatively small business owner, hoping to become  a little McKinsey I find myself working long, long hours like my Dad. I would not trade it for anything and still believe my company will become a little McKinsey.