Ben Howalnd fired

[muwarrior69]

UCLA reportedly is going after Shaka Smart first. 

UCLA reportedly is going after Chicos first.

[Sylvester78]

MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now.  Yea, I know the history.

It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job

[Groin_pull]

UCLA will chase the same guys who rejected them last time (Billy Donovan, etc), and settle for someone else. Howland was their third or fourth choice.

Poor attendance...low pay...and unreal expectations does not scream dream job to me. Yes, UCLA has positives, but also many serious negatives.

As far as Buzz...he'd be a horrible fit in Brentwood. Sorry, not happening.

[Jay Bee]

"if Howland found other employment, the payments from UCLA would be reduced by his income from the other source(s)."

I must not understand this provision fully, because this would just provide an awesome incentive to hire Howland.

If DePaul (for example) hired him on, they could pay him $1 for year one and Howland would still receive his $3.2m from UCLA that year. Even if they paid him $3m, say, UCLA would only have to kick in an additional 200k.

Either way he gets a raise for the coming year, but UCLA is subsidizing another team's coach.

Seems like this makes it easier and less risky for Howland to find employement elsewhere.

If Howland is fired, then over the next year UCLA will make payments to him of $2.3m (and 300k for the three years after that). HOWEVER, those payments will be REDUCED if he's got another job (i.e., yes, if he was OK with working for super cheap this coming year, he could still make the $2.3m he would have made at UCLA... in your example, DePaul pays him a buck, UCLA pays him $2.3m less a buck.

Might see some litigation over that one, but...

Another option would be to have the contract be low on guarantee money but high on easily achievable incentives.. pay $1m or so during the year..... during that time, UCLA pays $1.3m... and shortly after the season, he gets another $X incentive payment because he achieved easy goals.

BUT.. playing games like that by another school and Howland would be bad PR. I'd relax for a year if I was him (if* he is canned).

[GGGG]

MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now.  Yea, I know the history.

It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job

Oh for goodness sakes.  I wouldn't go that far...

[GGGG]

If Howland is fired, then over the next year UCLA will make payments to him of $2.3m (and 300k for the three years after that). HOWEVER, those payments will be REDUCED if he's got another job (i.e., yes, if he was OK with working for super cheap this coming year, he could still make the $2.3m he would have made at UCLA... in your example, DePaul pays him a buck, UCLA pays him $2.3m less a buck.

Might see some litigation over that one, but...

Another option would be to have the contract be low on guarantee money but high on easily achievable incentives.. pay $1m or so during the year..... during that time, UCLA pays $1.3m... and shortly after the season, he gets another $X incentive payment because he achieved easy goals.

BUT.. playing games like that by another school and Howland would be bad PR. I'd relax for a year if I was him (if* he is canned).

My guess is that he is going to be canned and they are just negotiating the buy out.

[Blackhat]

MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now.  Yea, I know the history.

It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job

I think we're close.  Buzz stays here for his career and this could definitely be the end result.

[ChicosBailBonds]

MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now.  Yea, I know the history.

It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job

You really should step back from the ledge.

In the last 7 years, they have three Final Fours, including a championship game appearance. 

No one in America would repeat what you just said. 

[keefe]

If Howland is fired, then over the next year UCLA will make payments to him of $2.3m (and 300k for the three years after that). HOWEVER, those payments will be REDUCED if he's got another job (i.e., yes, if he was OK with working for super cheap this coming year, he could still make the $2.3m he would have made at UCLA... in your example, DePaul pays him a buck, UCLA pays him $2.3m less a buck.

Might see some litigation over that one, but...

Another option would be to have the contract be low on guarantee money but high on easily achievable incentives.. pay $1m or so during the year..... during that time, UCLA pays $1.3m... and shortly after the season, he gets another $X incentive payment because he achieved easy goals.

BUT.. playing games like that by another school and Howland would be bad PR. I'd relax for a year if I was him (if* he is canned).

That was what happened with Mike Deane. Marquette effectively paid his salary at Lamar. Once the Marquette cash flow ended Lamar let Deane go and brought in Tubbs.

[Groin_pull]

You really should step back from the ledge.

In the last 7 years, they have three Final Fours, including a championship game appearance. 

No one in America would repeat what you just said. 

Sure, UCLA is an attractive job, but it's far from perfect. As I mentioned earlier, you have low attendance (the atmosphere at Pauley is pathetic)...low pay (in a very expensive location)... and unreal expectations. The ghost of Wooden still looms large and many alums still think it's the 60s and 70s when UCLA was winning year after year after year. Howland went to back-to-back Final Fours and they still couldn't wait to fire him.

[brandx]

And there will be plenty of places that would want him.

There probably will, Sultan. But not nearly as many as a few years back. UCLA was a very poorly coached team. Lazy, soft, no toughness whatsoever. Kinda the anit-MU.
Maybe that's on the players... but who brought them in?

[Golden Avalanche]

MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now.  Yea, I know the history.

It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

[MU82]

MU is and has been a better program than UCLA for some time now.  Yea, I know the history.

It would be a step down, MU is an elite program now. No reason for Buzz to leave - for any job

And Marquette was a better program than Indiana a few years ago, too, but there are few coaches who would have passed on Indiana for Marquette. In fact, I know of one who didn't. After all ... "It's Indiana!"

Pretty sure many coaches in America would say, "It's UCLA!" even if it really hasn't been for a couple (but only a couple) of years.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sure, UCLA is an attractive job, but it's far from perfect. As I mentioned earlier, you have low attendance (the atmosphere at Pauley is pathetic)...low pay (in a very expensive location)... and unreal expectations. The ghost of Wooden still looms large and many alums still think it's the 60s and 70s when UCLA was winning year after year after year. Howland went to back-to-back Final Fours and they still couldn't wait to fire him.

No one is saying it is perfect.

There are  a lot of people out here that think firing Howland is a huge mistake and they were hardly waiting to fire him.  A lot transpired in the last two years to make this happen, including the expose in Sports Illustrated which the conservative administration at UCLA was very displeased with.  Many transfers, many off the court issues.

The atmosphere at UCLA isn't great, but that can be changed very easily.  During the Final Four runs, the atmosphere was fine. 

The money, it's all relative...it certainly isn't "low pay".  Yes, So. Cal is expensive place to live but $2 million a year that he was making will do just fine.  The new coach will make more.

Expectations, those come from winning.  What happened at MU after we went to the Final Four and then had to settle for NCAA appearances....people get itchy, wanting more.  People at Gonzaga, itchy they can't take the next step.  People at MU will do the same thing, it's human nature.  It's a what have you done for me lately world, especially in sports.  Mike Scioscia is feeling it down here with the Angels, despite being the only manager in club history to win a World Series and win multiple playoff series, division titles, etc.  Expectations mean people care about winning.

I don't disagree with you, however, that expectations can keep a lot of people away from a job like that because they don't want to deal with them.  Completely agree.  It will take the right kind of person.

[JTBMU7]

Also hearing rumors about Brad Stevens to UCLA... Would be a major blow to the new conf.

[bilsu]

It is really becoming a tough business when coaches who make the tournament are getting fired.

[Galway Eagle]

Depaul should go after him, in the very least he'll be able to recruit and get them to the tournament.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

If Howland is fired, then over the next year UCLA will make payments to him of $2.3m (and 300k for the three years after that). HOWEVER, those payments will be REDUCED if he's got another job (i.e., yes, if he was OK with working for super cheap this coming year, he could still make the $2.3m he would have made at UCLA... in your example, DePaul pays him a buck, UCLA pays him $2.3m less a buck.

Might see some litigation over that one, but...

Another option would be to have the contract be low on guarantee money but high on easily achievable incentives.. pay $1m or so during the year..... during that time, UCLA pays $1.3m... and shortly after the season, he gets another $X incentive payment because he achieved easy goals.

BUT.. playing games like that by another school and Howland would be bad PR. I'd relax for a year if I was him (if* he is canned).

incentives exist to encourage behavior.... Just really confusing as to why this incentive would even be there since it just benefits the next school Howland coaches at

[MarquetteDano]

Also hearing rumors about Brad Stevens to UCLA... Would be a major blow to the new conf.

Given Stevens personality this would be a terrible fit for both coach & school.  I would be shocked if that happened.

[Jay Bee]

incentives exist to encourage behavior.... Just really confusing as to why this incentive would even be there since it just benefits the next school Howland coaches at

It's not an 'incentive'. It's a punishment if UCLA ends the contract early (he's signed through 2017).

[JTBMU7]

Given Stevens personality this would be a terrible fit for both coach & school.  I would be shocked if that happened.

Probably right, I assume Shaka is the best fit. Who knows though, money is even at the smaller schools now, plus no headaches from big city media etc...

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

It's not an 'incentive'. It's a punishment if UCLA ends the contract early (he's signed through 2017).

a punishment is still an incentive (against something).

I guess it does make sense that this is out in as a bit of security for the coach taking on a high-risk job

[marquette20]

Also hearing rumors about Brad Stevens to UCLA... Would be a major blow to the new conf.

I feel only 3/4 jobs would be good sense for Stevens
UNC, Duke, Indiana, and Kansas

I don't see those opening up unless a unexpected retirement comes, so expect Stevens back at Butler.

[Jay Bee]

a punishment is still an incentive (against something).

I guess it does make sense that this is out in as a bit of security for the coach taking on a high-risk job

Termination fees / buyouts costs are very common in D1 coaching contracts. More often than not, the school owes the fired coach immediately, regardless of what the guy does next for work... UCLA has the "benefit" of reducing any payments to Howland if he works elsewhere.

(early term fees for a coach leaving early are also quite common, but generally lesser amounts)

[brewcity77]

You really should step back from the ledge.

In the last 7 years, they have three Final Fours, including a championship game appearance. 

No one in America would repeat what you just said. 

I don't think anyone would argue as to whether or not UCLA is a bigger job. However I seriously doubt it is a better job.