TWITTA TRACKKKAAAA Jeff Goodman throwing bombs

[The Lens]

This is why I have no sympathy for anything that has happened to Indiana.  They knowingly hired a known cheater.  They knew what they were getting into and deserved everything that happened to them.

How were they supposed to know the guy from Oklahoma was a cheater?


Ediited to include Teal.  They hired a guy from where Barry Switzer has a building named after him.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is why I have no sympathy for anything that has happened to Indiana.  They knowingly hired a known cheater.  They knew what they were getting into and deserved everything that happened to them.

Don't disagree at all.  That being said, doesn't change how hard it made the climb back out.

[TallTitan34]

How were they supposed to know the guy from Oklahoma was a cheater?

Because everyone else did.

http://basketball.about.com/od/coaches/a/sampsontimeline.htm

I admit TC did a great job getting them back.  I don't like him, but he's done a great job.

[keefe]

As confident as you were that Gonzaga was part of the new Big East?

There you go again. I never said it was a done deal. I related what I had been told by a friend who played for Hertz. Gonzaga had been asked by the C7 to investigate the feasibility of joining, which Gonzaga is doing. Unlike you, I limited it to the facts. Where Gonzaga is at in that process is unknown to me. 

[The Lens]

Don't disagree at all.  That being said, doesn't change how hard it made the climb back out.

I guess I have more respect for your alma mater than you do.  I give TC much more credit for a Final Four at MU than what he's done at IU.  To paraphrase the great Howard Schellenberg:  "Indiana's on a collision course with the Final Four, the only variable is time"

[NCMUFan]

I have no reason to love Indiana. I was a Crean supporter while at MU.  It stung when he left.  But I wish TC & Indiana the best.  They are loaded with elite talent/studs.  Crean made it to the final four with overall probably less talent.  That kind of talent will cover a multitude of coach short comings.  Kentucky is a prime example.  Marquette may end up facing Indiana.  Hence requiring a multitude to eat humble crow.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

I guess I have more respect for your alma mater than you do.  I give TC much more credit for a Final Four at MU than what he's done at IU.  To paraphrase the great Howard Schellenberg:  "Indiana's on a collision course with the Final Four, the only variable is time"

It's harder than ever to get to a Final Four.  I like the quote, but it's rare to get to the Final Four.  People don't realize that IU's #1 seed this week was just their 3rd in their history.  Pretty amazing.  It took 20+ years just to win an outright Big Ten title.  Strong league and strong region with many good coaches and teams.

That's also why 2003 was so special.  I hope we can get there again, but I have my doubts.  Would love to be proven wrong. 

[Aughnanure]

I have no reason to love Indiana. I was a Crean supporter while at MU.  It stung when he left.  But I wish TC & Indiana the best.  They are loaded with elite talent/studs.  Crean made it to the final four with overall probably less talent.  That kind of talent will cover a multitude of coach short comings.  Kentucky is a prime example.  Marquette may end up facing Indiana.  Hence requiring a multitude to eat humble crow.  

Say what you want about how Calipari runs his program, but he can flat out coach.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have no reason to love Indiana. I was a Crean supporter while at MU.  It stung when he left.  But I wish TC & Indiana the best.  They are loaded with elite talent/studs.  Crean made it to the final four with overall probably less talent.  That kind of talent will cover a multitude of coach short comings.  Kentucky is a prime example.  Marquette may end up facing Indiana.  Hence requiring a multitude to eat humble crow.  

They have two 3 star kids starting and their 6th man is a 3 star kid.  Zeller is a 5 star, Yogi a 5 star and Watford a 4 star.  Many more teams have more talented, elite players.  IU actually will have more elite players next year than this year, at least based on high school talent ratings.

This is why I don't think they will win it.  I know people here will blame it on coaching, but they have deficiencies at several positions that are hard to cover up.

[ChicosBailBonds]

There you go again. I never said it was a done deal. I related what I had been told by a friend who played for Hertz. Gonzaga had been asked by the C7 to investigate the feasibility of joining, which Gonzaga is doing. Unlike you, I limited it to the facts. Where Gonzaga is at in that process is unknown to me. 

Didn't say you did.  I just pointed out that you were confident it would happen and asked if its the same level of confidence for your latest prediction.

[keefe]

Didn't say you did.  I just pointed out that you were confident it would happen and asked if its the same level of confidence for your latest prediction.

I was never confident that it would happen. I was hopeful that it would happen. Very different.

As for IU's Tourney run, I really have no idea how they'll fare. They are great in an up and down game but terrible in the half court. I hope we do meet them in the Elite 8 as I believe we match up well. I am much more concerned about Miami which is a lot like MU's teams of the past few years (not the current edition.) Either way, I think both The U and Marquette are difficult match ups for Crean, in very different ways. I don't think they can keep up with Miami and I think Buzz would slow them down and get them out of their rhythm.

[JWags85]

Say what you want about how Calipari runs his program, but he can flat out coach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmWuIgwDE_Y

Surely you mean he can flat out recruit.  Or you are trolling magnificently.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I was never confident that it would happen. I was hopeful that it would happen. Very different.

As for IU's Tourney run, I really have no idea how they'll fare. They are great in an up and down game but terrible in the half court. I hope we do meet them in the Elite 8 as I believe we match up well. I am much more concerned about Miami which is a lot like MU's teams of the past few years (not the current edition.) Either way, I think both The U and Marquette are difficult match ups for Crean, in very different ways. I don't think they can keep up with Miami and I think Buzz would slow them down and get them out of their rhythm.

They are not "terrible" in a half court, just not as good.  They beat Georgetown in a half court game.  They beat Michigan State twice in games I would not call up and down.  Yes, they struggled mightily against Wisconsin, as many teams do.

As for Gonzaga, I don't know...this sounds pretty confident to me in your posts....this is just from one thread, but you get the idea.

"My friend played for Steve Hertz at Gonzaga and reports Hertz is actively involved in ongoing talks about the Zags joining the C7. Hertz' role is to figure out logistics issues. One note is that both Gonzaga and St Mary's were members of the Pac 10 for many sports for many years. These schools have great programs and will add to the new conference much more than the also rans of the A 10. I look forward to the announcement of Gonzaga linking up with the C7."

"Adding the Zags is a must do. As for St Mary's, I have no idea what is going on with C7 if anything. I have it on very good authority that the Zags only have to say the word and it's a done deal. Their issue is it just BB or is it everything. Hertz is tabulating the defining the impact of logistics but I am guessing it is for internal reasons with regard to the other sports."

"It might not make sense to you but you are not Gonzaga. Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports. Trust me - other sports is not a big deal and will get sorted."

[Silkk the Shaka]

They have two 3 star kids starting and their 6th man is a 3 star kid.  Zeller is a 5 star, Yogi a 5 star and Watford a 4 star.  Many more teams have more talented, elite players.  IU actually will have more elite players next year than this year, at least based on high school talent ratings.

This is why I don't think they will win it.  I know people here will blame it on coaching, but they have deficiencies at several positions that are hard to cover up.

Hulls was a consensus 4 star.  You know it, I know it, the RSCI knows it.  They only have one 3 star starting.  They have plenty of talent.  Kwit sandbaggin'.

[JakeBarnes]

Hulls was a consensus 4 star.  You know it, I know it, the RSCI knows it.  They only have one 3 star starting.  They have plenty of talent.  Kwit sandbaggin'.

They have walkons!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hulls was a consensus 4 star.  You know it, I know it, the RSCI knows it.  They only have one 3 star starting.  They have plenty of talent.  Kwit sandbaggin'.

I remember some of the outrage when IU took him because he didn't have enough stars behind his name...others were thrilled because he was a Bloomington kid and fit the Indiana profile.  


Jordan Hulls....3 star Yahoo Rivals   http://rivals.yahoo.com/coloradostate/basketball/recruiting/player-Jordan-Hulls-82901   Consensus  

For Scout, he is a 4 star.

That's nice about RSCI...I noticed in that very same RSCI that Erik Williams is about 10 spots better than Hulls.  LOL

[keefe]

They are not "terrible" in a half court, just not as good.  They beat Georgetown in a half court game.  They beat Michigan State twice in games I would not call up and down.  Yes, they struggled mightily against Wisconsin, as many teams do.

As for Gonzaga, I don't know...this sounds pretty confident to me in your posts....this is just from one thread, but you get the idea.

"My friend played for Steve Hertz at Gonzaga and reports Hertz is actively involved in ongoing talks about the Zags joining the C7. Hertz' role is to figure out logistics issues. One note is that both Gonzaga and St Mary's were members of the Pac 10 for many sports for many years. These schools have great programs and will add to the new conference much more than the also rans of the A 10. I look forward to the announcement of Gonzaga linking up with the C7."

"Adding the Zags is a must do. As for St Mary's, I have no idea what is going on with C7 if anything. I have it on very good authority that the Zags only have to say the word and it's a done deal. Their issue is it just BB or is it everything. Hertz is tabulating the defining the impact of logistics but I am guessing it is for internal reasons with regard to the other sports."

"It might not make sense to you but you are not Gonzaga. Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports. Trust me - other sports is not a big deal and will get sorted."

Fact is that Gonzaga was asked to join. They set up a committee to look at all aspects of joining. I have no idea what they looked at or concluded. They might still be looking at it. But the fact is they were invited to join. 

[Aughnanure]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmWuIgwDE_Y

Surely you mean he can flat out recruit.  Or you are trolling magnificently.

Cute. But you don't seem to really understand or appreciate how difficult of a coaching job Calipari has bringing in 4-5 completely new players every year and getting them to not only come together as a team but to win BIG. Its not easy and the idea that there is no coaching involved and you just roll out the ball and win is laughable and ignorant. Bringing in 5 of the most highly touted recruits who are used to being "the man" and getting them to share and play real basketball together and doing it almost every year is an amazing accomplishment. He doesn't win just because he is amazing at recruiting, he wins cause he coaches the crap out of them.

I know he's the easiest punching bag in college basketball, but his teams don't magically come together on their own. Look at Scott Drew, Rick Barnes, Josh Pastner, Ben Howland, and even Roy Williams and their success winning with a bunch of highly touted freshmen (and even as sophomores). Hell Bill Self has had chemistry problems with nearly every single one and done he's ever brought in.

None of them have been able to bring in such highly touted recruits and get them to mesh and win as Calipari has. And he does it with an almost entirely new batch of kids EVERY YEAR. That's coaching.

[GGGG]

Keefe, with all due respect, you are the only person that has said this.  There has been no rumors that they were invited from anywhere else.  Some "reaching out" of some sort early on - but that's about it.  I think you can see why we are skeptical.

[Henry Sugar]

They have two 3 star kids starting and their 6th man is a 3 star kid.  Zeller is a 5 star, Yogi a 5 star and Watford a 4 star.  Many more teams have more talented, elite players.  IU actually will have more elite players next year than this year, at least based on high school talent ratings.

This is why I don't think they will win it.  I know people here will blame it on coaching, but they have deficiencies at several positions that are hard to cover up.

Who cares about rankings? Let's look at how they are performing this year to assess talent.

http://valueaddbasketball.com/

• Indiana has two of the top five players in NCAA. They have four of the top 100 players.
• Louisville has zero of the top ten players and three top 50 players
• Gonzaga has zero top ten players and three top 75 players
• Kansas has two top twenty players
• Ohio State has two top 50 players
• Georgetown has the #2 player in the nation
• Miami has one top 40 player
• Duke has one top 10 player and three top 50 players
• Florida has two top 50 players and four top 100 players
• Marquette has one top 51 player

Compared to all other one seeds, two seeds, and Florida, Indiana has at least as much top 100 talent. Not only that, they have not just one of the top five players in basketball, but two of the top five players in basketball. In fact, there are zero teams with as much talent as Indiana has on the floor this year.

Might want to back off the "not enough talent" argument.

Having said that, lots of other teams have talent too and Indiana's chance of winning the whole thing is still only about 20%.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I remember some of the outrage when IU took him because he didn't have enough stars behind his name...others were thrilled because he was a Bloomington kid and fit the Indiana profile.  


Jordan Hulls....3 star Yahoo Rivals   http://rivals.yahoo.com/coloradostate/basketball/recruiting/player-Jordan-Hulls-82901   Consensus  

For Scout, he is a 4 star.

That's nice about RSCI...I noticed in that very same RSCI that Erik Williams is about 10 spots better than Hulls.  LOL

Not sure if you're just playing dumb re: RSCI rankings or acutally don't know what they are, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  It's not just one ratings service.  It aggregates all of them to get the consensus recruiting analyst opinion.  I'll let them explain it themselves:

RSCI is intended to help you make sense out of the various top 50 or top 100 rankings of the nation’s best high school basketball players. It combines the rankings from well known recruiting experts into a single, consensus ranking.

Why is such a consensus ranking needed? Well, if you’ve ever scanned the rankings from a couple of these experts, you’ll quickly find that they can differ greatly from each other. In fact, sometimes they disagree to such an extent that you have no idea whether a kid is top 5 material or barely a top 50 player.

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2009-final

Jordan Hulls was consensus #74 in the 2009 class.  That includes the fact that he was left out of Rivals' top 100 list.  He was solidly a 4 star.  Indiana Mr. Basketball.  The fact that Erik Williams was consensus rated 7 spots higher at #67 is an entirely irrelevant but not unexpected arguing tactic of yours.  All of the analysts missed on Erik Williams.  On the other hand, Jordan Hulls was properly analyzed in aggregate, if not slightly OVERrated.  But go ahead and cling to your fantasy that Crean is starting two 3 stars if it gets your rocks off.


LOL, etc.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

 WHY ISN'T CHICOS ON AN INDIANA BOARD?

[Lennys Tap]

Don't disagree at all.  That being said, doesn't change how hard it made the climb back out.

If you're Baylor it's really hard. Indiana, not so much.

[mu_hilltopper]

WHY ISN'T CHICOS ON AN INDIANA BOARD?

Better question .. why don't you guys click the button?

[Lennys Tap]

Not sure if you're just playing dumb re: RSCI rankings or acutally don't know what they are, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.  It's not just one ratings service.  It aggregates all of them to get the consensus recruiting analyst opinion.  I'll let them explain it themselves:

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2009-final

Jordan Hulls was consensus #74 in the 2009 class.  That includes the fact that he was left out of Rivals' top 100 list.  He was solidly a 4 star.  Indiana Mr. Basketball.  The fact that Erik Williams was consensus rated 7 spots higher at #67 is an entirely irrelevant but not unexpected arguing tactic of yours.  All of the analysts missed on Erik Williams.  On the other hand, Jordan Hulls was properly analyzed in aggregate, if not slightly OVERrated.  But go ahead and cling to your fantasy that Crean is starting two 3 stars if it gets your rocks off.


LOL, etc.

+ 1. This is what Chicos does consistently with his "facts", twisting them in order to create false impressions. The real "true fact" statement here is Hulls was a solid consensus 4 star who had an outlier 3 star ranking in one service. It's like calling the 20th ranked team in the AP poll "unranked" because a voter or two left them off the ballot - deceptive but typical.