Is Bin Laden Dead?

[ChicosBailBonds]

chicos, show me where I said that the government was behind 9/11.  I said they had a idea and were aware of something building.  No where did I say they planned it.

Silky you can't have it both ways.....either GWB is a spectacular idiot or he is some sort evil genius.  Do you know how many people would have to be involved in a plan that would even involve well we have an idea whats going lets just see what happens?????

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is it possible that they had information and really underestimated al-Qaeda?  Thinking there is now way they can pull it off or that security measures already in place would stop it?  When you see those pictures if him in that Florida classroom, he doesn't look at all shocked.  You can almost see the poo sliding down his face.


Yes, that is possible.  We know there were warnings before hand, but that's not what you have implied.  You have implied that they knew on 9/11, planes would fly into buildings around the country.  If this gov't knew when, where and how, it would have been stopped.  PERIOD.

I don't know how you looked the morning of 9/11, but when I saw it happening I was in total shock.  My wife was on a plane from NYC just 7 hours earlier and landed in Los Angeles around Midnight.  We were both stunned.  As was the President who also had to think about was this going to continue, where else were they attacking, etc.

But please, I don't care how bad your BDS is, to suggest they let it happen is ridiculous.  To use your theory, then after the 1993 attacks I guess Clinton allowed to happen USS Cole, Khobar Towers, US Embassies...right?  I mean that's the same theory.


This government has made some tremendous mistakes, but they've gone 6 years now with no further attacks on this country.  I don't think anyone in their right mind would have suggested that was possible after 9/11, after the London attacks, after the Madrid attacks.  No question more attacks are coming, but they get kudos for pitching a shutout the last 6 years.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

chicos, show me where I said that the government was behind 9/11.  I said they had a idea and were aware of something building.  No where did I say they planned it.

Silky you can't have it both ways.....either GWB is a spectacular idiot or he is some sort evil genius.  Do you know how many people would have to be involved in a plan that would even involve well we have an idea whats going lets just see what happens?????

Let me tell you how this stuff works.  Every day the president gets an intelligence briefings which break down all the suspect issues.  This is roughly an hour a day.  So its pretty high level, not real detailed.  Now for something to make it into that report there would have to be significant details known.  Something like "umm there are illegal aliens learning to fly planes" isn't going to make it.  To get into one of the intelligence briefings a working group out of NSA, CIA, and DSA would come together to ferret out the information.  This would involve at a minimum a dozen people, not to mention all of their bosses knowing what they were discussing.  Also as a routine procedure the high levels of the FBI gets the briefing as well, so they would also hear all this information.  Also the people who gathered the information in the first place would know.

What I'm trying to point out is, even the thought that Bush had idea it was going to happen and did nothing is preposterous.  So many people would be in the know that nothing was being done, that would have leaked either before the attack or immediately after.  You are trying to tell me that at the smallest a group of 100 people are keeping their mouths shut about a US president being complicit in the death of 3000 fellow Americans??  The majority of whom are not political appointees.  I don't care how cynical you are, if you believe that you have to literally be crazy.

Is it possible that they had information and really underestimated al-Qaeda?  Thinking there is now way they can pull it off or that security measures already in place would stop it?  When you see those pictures if him in that Florida classroom, he doesn't look at all shocked.  You can almost see the poo sliding down his face.

what would you prefer he have done?  Started crying?  Jumping around hysterically.  As President, I expect our leader to be composed and under control.  Especially when he was sitting in front of a bunch of small children.  It's awfully easy for a parent to control their emotions and facial expressions in order to protect young children from becoming scared or upset.

[tower912]

I have proven I am not a fan of Bush, but to claim he knew what, when, and where and it has been kept secret for 6+ years is ridiculous.   He received a briefing in August 01 that bin Laden wanted to attack the US, but that was pretty common knowledge.   The intelligence agencies had bits and pieces of the puzzle, but it only became recognizable in hindsight.   I was even on board when we went to Afghanistant to get the Taliban and bin Laden.   He lost my support when he changed course and went after Iraq.    But we've beaten that to death in other threads.

[Murffieus]

Will GWB regain your support when he blockades Iran?

[tower912]

An interesting question.   Intellectually, I think a strong case can be made that Iran was a larger threat in 2002-3, continues to be a stronger threat, as they are overt in their support of al qaeda and their nuclear capabilities, the polar opposite of Iraq in 02-03.   My disgust and distrust with this current administration and its invasion and occupation of Iraq make it difficult for me to trust their motives in any military action.  The drumbeats for action, the accusations and the saber rattling seem so reminiscent of 5 years ago and so much of that proved untrue.  So my intellect and my emotions are in conflict.   Also, we do not have the manpower to put boots on the ground in sufficient numbers to overthrow that regime, so this will be a blockade and missile confrontation.   Will our only goals be the elimination of their nuclear program?  How good is Israeli intel?   If their reaction to our bombings is to send a 1/2 million troops into Iraq, how many of our troops will die, can we hold our nominal control of Iraq against a well armed and trained force that size, will anyone help us, and if the worst case scenario plays out and we lose part of Iraq to Iran,  or we create a wider, pan Middle east conflict, will this have been worth it?   I certainly hope that people in this administration have actually contemplated these things.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Does it make you feel better that the French, Brits seem to be on board with this as well?  So, too, are the Saudis (privately) but they'll never say it publicly. 

[Murffieus]

The elimination of Iran's nuke program is a must----one way or another they can not be allowed to acquire Nukes-----they'd be the untouchable and uncontrollable bullies of the mid east and gain the power there they don't have now. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, maybe even Jordan would make a push toward their own nuke programs-----then too Iran would be in a position to sell/give nukes to 3rd parties to use (Hezbullah?)-----smuggle one into Tel Aviv or NY Harbor or any major city in the USA----that would be a catastrophe.

Iran's current leadership has the mindset of a suicide bomb nation----they're fanatics!

[ChicosBailBonds]

The elimination of Iran's nuke program is a must----one way or another they can not be allowed to acquire Nukes-----they'd be the untouchable and uncontrollable bullies of the mid east and gain the power there they don't have now. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, maybe even Jordan would make a push toward their own nuke programs-----then too Iran would be in a position to sell/give nukes to 3rd parties to use (Hezbullah?)-----smuggle one into Tel Aviv or NY Harbor or any major city in the USA----that would be a catastrophe.

Iran's current leadership has the mindset of a suicide bomb nation----they're fanatics!

Totally agree, but no one has the balls to confront them, at least publicly.  At least not yet.  I think Bush will.

[Murffieus]

You're probably right---- and I think unlike Rumsfield in Iraq----that with Gates as Defense Sec. that all possible ramifications and Iraian reactions will be thought out beforehand and therefore anticipated and prepared for.