Is Bin Laden Dead?

[Murffieus]

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=2&subID=942&WT.srch=1

[mviale]

cnn isnt reporting this - we need a head to prove this.  Since our attention is tied up in Iraq, we depend on viruses and other acts of God to rid us of terrorism.  I think GB would approve of this higher tactic.

[Murffieus]

Whether we're in Iraq or not has no bearing whatsoever on Bin Laden who if alive is in Pakistan ----- we can't touch him there now----however GWB is rallying political competition for Musharaff with the former Prime Minister Bhutto who may win the election later this year -----she is very hawkish on terrorism!

On Bin Laden----hasn't been seen on a video in well over a year now-----seems to me Al Quida would be using his mug and comments as much as possible to recruit and rally the Jihadists----but that's not forthcoming-----connect the dots!

[mviale]

show me the head and I will believe it

[ilovefreeway]

Whether we're in Iraq or not has no bearing whatsoever on Bin Laden who if alive is in Pakistan ----- we can't touch him there now----however GWB is rallying political competition for Musharaff with the former Prime Minister Bhutto who may win the election later this year -----she is very hawkish on terrorism!

On Bin Laden----hasn't been seen on a video in well over a year now-----seems to me Al Quida would be using his mug and comments as much as possible to recruit and rally the Jihadists----but that's not forthcoming-----connect the dots!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070906/ts_nm/security_binladen_website_dc

[Murffieus]

I saw the picture that Al Quida identified as Bin Laden presented on a website which was placed by NBC next to a picture of him in 2004----fuller face and much darker beard now-----questions arise in the words of the NBC commentator-----"is the latest picture actually Bin Laden"?

I've seen beards grow from dark to white over time-----but never white to dark unless dyed.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I always wonder how the nutjobs handle this kind of stuff.  Here Bin Laden will be on a video on 9/11 and we'll still have nutjobs around the country saying Bush and the Administration were behind 9/11.  I'd love to know how these people square that up in their brains.

I saw a guy the other day on television that said there were no planes involved in 9/11...as in planes didn't really crash into the towers.  Wow. 

Speaking of nutjobs, 42% of them in this country in the latest poll.  You can't make this stuff up.  42% of Democrats think Bush caused 9/11 or knew about it and decided to let it happen.

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/06/zogby-poll-42-of-democrats-think-bush-caused-911-or-let-it-happen/?print=1

[Murffieus]

Simple answer why 42% of Dem's think Bush staged 9/11---they're all Bush haters! Perception is a slave to emotion!

[ChicosBailBonds]

The latest video could be a forgery

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893413/posts

[mviale]

I think it is real as Bin Laden becomes even more powerful as a martyr.  I dont think they have anything to gain by pretending.

[Murffieus]

Bin Laden is now irrelevant so he might as well be dead----lecturing us on global warming, the mortgage mess here, and other irrelavance like converting to Islam (somehow i can't picture my self reporting to a mosque 3 times a day on all fours-----don't think the good Lord expects that)------he's isolated in Northern Pakistan and unable to organize major attacks----has to rely on surrogate groups around the world, who get caught before the act because they aren't organized or well trained----GWB did a number on Al Quida. if the Dems would succeed in our surrendering in Iraq----Al Quida would regain their initiative (not to mention Iran)----that's the only thing Bin Laden has going for him-----and that is the Dems in congress!

[mviale]

agree - Bin Laden is irrelevant to this white house. Should be our focus.

[ChicosBailBonds]

agree - Bin Laden is irrelevant to this white house. Should be our focus.

I'm sure Madame Hillary will nab him in probably the first 48 hours.   

[Silky Johnston]

I always wonder how the nutjobs handle this kind of stuff.  Here Bin Laden will be on a video on 9/11 and we'll still have nutjobs around the country saying Bush and the Administration were behind 9/11.  I'd love to know how these people square that up in their brains.

I saw a guy the other day on television that said there were no planes involved in 9/11...as in planes didn't really crash into the towers.  Wow. 

Speaking of nutjobs, 42% of them in this country in the latest poll.  You can't make this stuff up.  42% of Democrats think Bush caused 9/11 or knew about it and decided to let it happen.

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/06/zogby-poll-42-of-democrats-think-bush-caused-911-or-let-it-happen/?print=1

I firmly believe that bush had an idea of what al-Qaeda was planning.  The cia had been tracking some of the hijackers ever sense they entered the country.  He knew that he could not win re-election with the normal Republican platform.  He found a new platform to run on -- fear.  He scared the country into voting for him which still almost did not work.  Harry Truman said it best "The only thing worse than treason is war profiteering."  He seems to be doing a good job of that.  Eisenhower warned us against becoming a military industrial complex.  In his final speech to the nation he saw this as being the down fall of the USA.  We need to spend the billions of dollars that are being spent on this war on making sure everybody in the united states has health care, shelter and food.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I always wonder how the nutjobs handle this kind of stuff.  Here Bin Laden will be on a video on 9/11 and we'll still have nutjobs around the country saying Bush and the Administration were behind 9/11.  I'd love to know how these people square that up in their brains.

I saw a guy the other day on television that said there were no planes involved in 9/11...as in planes didn't really crash into the towers.  Wow. 

Speaking of nutjobs, 42% of them in this country in the latest poll.  You can't make this stuff up.  42% of Democrats think Bush caused 9/11 or knew about it and decided to let it happen.

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/06/zogby-poll-42-of-democrats-think-bush-caused-911-or-let-it-happen/?print=1

I firmly believe that bush had an idea of what al-Qaeda was planning.  The cia had been tracking some of the hijackers ever sense they entered the country.  He knew that he could not win re-election with the normal Republican platform.  He found a new platform to run on -- fear.  He scared the country into voting for him which still almost did not work.  Harry Truman said it best "The only thing worse than treason is war profiteering."  He seems to be doing a good job of that.  Eisenhower warned us against becoming a military industrial complex.  In his final speech to the nation he saw this as being the down fall of the USA.  We need to spend the billions of dollars that are being spent on this war on making sure everybody in the united states has health care, shelter and food.

You're a lunatic

If you're reasoning made any sense at all, he wouldn't have won the election the first time since no one was being scared into anything.  9/11 was not an inside job and such thinking is pure lunacy.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

show me the head and I will believe it

no you wouldn't.  you'd claim it was a fake head.  or a look a like.

and the original article that Murf linked was published Sept 23, 2006, which is hardly current.  See page 2 of the article.

[Silky Johnston]

I always wonder how the nutjobs handle this kind of stuff.  Here Bin Laden will be on a video on 9/11 and we'll still have nutjobs around the country saying Bush and the Administration were behind 9/11.  I'd love to know how these people square that up in their brains.

I saw a guy the other day on television that said there were no planes involved in 9/11...as in planes didn't really crash into the towers.  Wow. 

Speaking of nutjobs, 42% of them in this country in the latest poll.  You can't make this stuff up.  42% of Democrats think Bush caused 9/11 or knew about it and decided to let it happen.

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/09/06/zogby-poll-42-of-democrats-think-bush-caused-911-or-let-it-happen/?print=1

I firmly believe that bush had an idea of what al-Qaeda was planning.  The CIA had been tracking some of the hijackers ever sense they entered the country.  He knew that he could not win re-election with the normal Republican platform.  He found a new platform to run on -- fear.  He scared the country into voting for him which still almost did not work.  Harry Truman said it best "The only thing worse than treason is war profiteering."  He seems to be doing a good job of that.  Eisenhower warned us against becoming a military industrial complex.  In his final speech to the nation he saw this as being the down fall of the USA.  We need to spend the billions of dollars that are being spent on this war on making sure everybody in the united states has health care, shelter and food.

You're a lunatic

If you're reasoning made any sense at all, he wouldn't have won the election the first time since no one was being scared into anything.  9/11 was not an inside job and such thinking is pure lunacy.

I said that he would not be re-elected.  Which would imply that he was elected already.  Then I said he was aware of something going on, not orchestrating it.  

If only the righties could have an open mind and not just blindly follow someone off a bridge.

Since your such an expert on this issue please explain to me how my reasoning does not make any sense.  And by calling me a lunatic just makes you look ignorant and closed minded.  I am sure thats not how you want to come across.

[Murffieus]

Silky----In the absence of any evidence that GWB had the inside info on 9/11 such reasoning is ludicrous------furthermore there is no one in the Congress----not even Bush's most severe critics who believes that.

Anyone can reason anything about anybody anytime, but to have any credibility one has to have evidence (at least some dots to connect)-----and there is none. In the absense of evidence, you claim to be inside GWB's brain----you are either a lunatic or you're yanking our chain!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Cambridge University released a study yesterday further squelching the idea the government was responsible for 9/11.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1895369/posts

Rosie O'Donnell and her engineering degree I'm sure will challenge this.   

[Silky Johnston]

Anyone can reason anything about anybody anytime, but to have any credibility one has to have evidence (at least some dots to connect)-----and there is none. In the absense of evidence, you claim to be inside GWB's brain----you are either a lunatic or you're yanking our chain!

I agree.  We all get our information from what we read and see.  Which is also given to us from somebody else.   You can say you have articles that indicate this and that, but where did that person get his info, where did the person who got the info to give receive his info.  You can go on and on.  The only way to get to the truth is if you, chicos and I do the investigating ourselves.

The truth lies in the shadows much like who really runs the government.

How many times did you her GW say "terror" (said in your best GW voice) during the re-election.  You could almost make a drinking game out of it.

[Silky Johnston]

chicos, show me where I said that the government was behind 9/11.  I said they had a idea and were aware of something building.  No where did I say they planned it.

[Murffieus]

I do think GWB jumped upon the terrorist issue and was successful in making political hay out of that in 2004----but to say that he had the inside on 9/11 before it happened is a giant leap from that------there are no dots to connect here-----where are the dots?-----why hasn't anyone with any credibility nationally come out and accused Bush of allowing 9/11 to happen-----only the "lunatic fringe" believes that------still time to purge yourself of your demons, Silky!

[mu03eng]

chicos, show me where I said that the government was behind 9/11.  I said they had a idea and were aware of something building.  No where did I say they planned it.

Silky you can't have it both ways.....either GWB is a spectacular idiot or he is some sort evil genius.  Do you know how many people would have to be involved in a plan that would even involve well we have an idea whats going lets just see what happens?????

Let me tell you how this stuff works.  Every day the president gets an intelligence briefings which break down all the suspect issues.  This is roughly an hour a day.  So its pretty high level, not real detailed.  Now for something to make it into that report there would have to be significant details known.  Something like "umm there are illegal aliens learning to fly planes" isn't going to make it.  To get into one of the intelligence briefings a working group out of NSA, CIA, and DSA would come together to ferret out the information.  This would involve at a minimum a dozen people, not to mention all of their bosses knowing what they were discussing.  Also as a routine procedure the high levels of the FBI gets the briefing as well, so they would also hear all this information.  Also the people who gathered the information in the first place would know.

What I'm trying to point out is, even the thought that Bush had idea it was going to happen and did nothing is preposterous.  So many people would be in the know that nothing was being done, that would have leaked either before the attack or immediately after.  You are trying to tell me that at the smallest a group of 100 people are keeping their mouths shut about a US president being complicit in the death of 3000 fellow Americans??  The majority of whom are not political appointees.  I don't care how cynical you are, if you believe that you have to literally be crazy.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Silky, you imply (if not directly state) that Bush had an idea of what was going to happen and let it happen.

I'm sorry, but I find that to be the beliefs of lunacy.  It's not as bad as the complete moonbats that say planes never went into the towers, or they were drones, or shape charges were planted in the buildings, etc....but's it's not far behind.

The idea that the government knew and just said whatever and let it happen I find to be unbelievable.  Bush wasn in month 8 of his presidency, how in the hell would you know if he was going to get re-elected or not 3 years later?  It's absurd what you are saying, absolutely absurd.

[Silky Johnston]

chicos, show me where I said that the government was behind 9/11.  I said they had a idea and were aware of something building.  No where did I say they planned it.

Silky you can't have it both ways.....either GWB is a spectacular idiot or he is some sort evil genius.  Do you know how many people would have to be involved in a plan that would even involve well we have an idea whats going lets just see what happens?????

Let me tell you how this stuff works.  Every day the president gets an intelligence briefings which break down all the suspect issues.  This is roughly an hour a day.  So its pretty high level, not real detailed.  Now for something to make it into that report there would have to be significant details known.  Something like "umm there are illegal aliens learning to fly planes" isn't going to make it.  To get into one of the intelligence briefings a working group out of NSA, CIA, and DSA would come together to ferret out the information.  This would involve at a minimum a dozen people, not to mention all of their bosses knowing what they were discussing.  Also as a routine procedure the high levels of the FBI gets the briefing as well, so they would also hear all this information.  Also the people who gathered the information in the first place would know.

What I'm trying to point out is, even the thought that Bush had idea it was going to happen and did nothing is preposterous.  So many people would be in the know that nothing was being done, that would have leaked either before the attack or immediately after.  You are trying to tell me that at the smallest a group of 100 people are keeping their mouths shut about a US president being complicit in the death of 3000 fellow Americans??  The majority of whom are not political appointees.  I don't care how cynical you are, if you believe that you have to literally be crazy.

Is it possible that they had information and really underestimated al-Qaeda?  Thinking there is now way they can pull it off or that security measures already in place would stop it?  When you see those pictures if him in that Florida classroom, he doesn't look at all shocked.  You can almost see the poo sliding down his face.

[ChicosBailBonds]

chicos, show me where I said that the government was behind 9/11.  I said they had a idea and were aware of something building.  No where did I say they planned it.

Silky you can't have it both ways.....either GWB is a spectacular idiot or he is some sort evil genius.  Do you know how many people would have to be involved in a plan that would even involve well we have an idea whats going lets just see what happens?????

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is it possible that they had information and really underestimated al-Qaeda?  Thinking there is now way they can pull it off or that security measures already in place would stop it?  When you see those pictures if him in that Florida classroom, he doesn't look at all shocked.  You can almost see the poo sliding down his face.


Yes, that is possible.  We know there were warnings before hand, but that's not what you have implied.  You have implied that they knew on 9/11, planes would fly into buildings around the country.  If this gov't knew when, where and how, it would have been stopped.  PERIOD.

I don't know how you looked the morning of 9/11, but when I saw it happening I was in total shock.  My wife was on a plane from NYC just 7 hours earlier and landed in Los Angeles around Midnight.  We were both stunned.  As was the President who also had to think about was this going to continue, where else were they attacking, etc.

But please, I don't care how bad your BDS is, to suggest they let it happen is ridiculous.  To use your theory, then after the 1993 attacks I guess Clinton allowed to happen USS Cole, Khobar Towers, US Embassies...right?  I mean that's the same theory.


This government has made some tremendous mistakes, but they've gone 6 years now with no further attacks on this country.  I don't think anyone in their right mind would have suggested that was possible after 9/11, after the London attacks, after the Madrid attacks.  No question more attacks are coming, but they get kudos for pitching a shutout the last 6 years.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

chicos, show me where I said that the government was behind 9/11.  I said they had a idea and were aware of something building.  No where did I say they planned it.

Silky you can't have it both ways.....either GWB is a spectacular idiot or he is some sort evil genius.  Do you know how many people would have to be involved in a plan that would even involve well we have an idea whats going lets just see what happens?????

Let me tell you how this stuff works.  Every day the president gets an intelligence briefings which break down all the suspect issues.  This is roughly an hour a day.  So its pretty high level, not real detailed.  Now for something to make it into that report there would have to be significant details known.  Something like "umm there are illegal aliens learning to fly planes" isn't going to make it.  To get into one of the intelligence briefings a working group out of NSA, CIA, and DSA would come together to ferret out the information.  This would involve at a minimum a dozen people, not to mention all of their bosses knowing what they were discussing.  Also as a routine procedure the high levels of the FBI gets the briefing as well, so they would also hear all this information.  Also the people who gathered the information in the first place would know.

What I'm trying to point out is, even the thought that Bush had idea it was going to happen and did nothing is preposterous.  So many people would be in the know that nothing was being done, that would have leaked either before the attack or immediately after.  You are trying to tell me that at the smallest a group of 100 people are keeping their mouths shut about a US president being complicit in the death of 3000 fellow Americans??  The majority of whom are not political appointees.  I don't care how cynical you are, if you believe that you have to literally be crazy.

Is it possible that they had information and really underestimated al-Qaeda?  Thinking there is now way they can pull it off or that security measures already in place would stop it?  When you see those pictures if him in that Florida classroom, he doesn't look at all shocked.  You can almost see the poo sliding down his face.

what would you prefer he have done?  Started crying?  Jumping around hysterically.  As President, I expect our leader to be composed and under control.  Especially when he was sitting in front of a bunch of small children.  It's awfully easy for a parent to control their emotions and facial expressions in order to protect young children from becoming scared or upset.

[tower912]

I have proven I am not a fan of Bush, but to claim he knew what, when, and where and it has been kept secret for 6+ years is ridiculous.   He received a briefing in August 01 that bin Laden wanted to attack the US, but that was pretty common knowledge.   The intelligence agencies had bits and pieces of the puzzle, but it only became recognizable in hindsight.   I was even on board when we went to Afghanistant to get the Taliban and bin Laden.   He lost my support when he changed course and went after Iraq.    But we've beaten that to death in other threads.

[Murffieus]

Will GWB regain your support when he blockades Iran?

[tower912]

An interesting question.   Intellectually, I think a strong case can be made that Iran was a larger threat in 2002-3, continues to be a stronger threat, as they are overt in their support of al qaeda and their nuclear capabilities, the polar opposite of Iraq in 02-03.   My disgust and distrust with this current administration and its invasion and occupation of Iraq make it difficult for me to trust their motives in any military action.  The drumbeats for action, the accusations and the saber rattling seem so reminiscent of 5 years ago and so much of that proved untrue.  So my intellect and my emotions are in conflict.   Also, we do not have the manpower to put boots on the ground in sufficient numbers to overthrow that regime, so this will be a blockade and missile confrontation.   Will our only goals be the elimination of their nuclear program?  How good is Israeli intel?   If their reaction to our bombings is to send a 1/2 million troops into Iraq, how many of our troops will die, can we hold our nominal control of Iraq against a well armed and trained force that size, will anyone help us, and if the worst case scenario plays out and we lose part of Iraq to Iran,  or we create a wider, pan Middle east conflict, will this have been worth it?   I certainly hope that people in this administration have actually contemplated these things.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Does it make you feel better that the French, Brits seem to be on board with this as well?  So, too, are the Saudis (privately) but they'll never say it publicly. 

[Murffieus]

The elimination of Iran's nuke program is a must----one way or another they can not be allowed to acquire Nukes-----they'd be the untouchable and uncontrollable bullies of the mid east and gain the power there they don't have now. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, maybe even Jordan would make a push toward their own nuke programs-----then too Iran would be in a position to sell/give nukes to 3rd parties to use (Hezbullah?)-----smuggle one into Tel Aviv or NY Harbor or any major city in the USA----that would be a catastrophe.

Iran's current leadership has the mindset of a suicide bomb nation----they're fanatics!

[ChicosBailBonds]

The elimination of Iran's nuke program is a must----one way or another they can not be allowed to acquire Nukes-----they'd be the untouchable and uncontrollable bullies of the mid east and gain the power there they don't have now. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, maybe even Jordan would make a push toward their own nuke programs-----then too Iran would be in a position to sell/give nukes to 3rd parties to use (Hezbullah?)-----smuggle one into Tel Aviv or NY Harbor or any major city in the USA----that would be a catastrophe.

Iran's current leadership has the mindset of a suicide bomb nation----they're fanatics!

Totally agree, but no one has the balls to confront them, at least publicly.  At least not yet.  I think Bush will.

[Murffieus]

You're probably right---- and I think unlike Rumsfield in Iraq----that with Gates as Defense Sec. that all possible ramifications and Iraian reactions will be thought out beforehand and therefore anticipated and prepared for.