If this is rebuilding......

[mileskishnish72]

I thought this was going to be what the Red Sox call a "bridge year."  This group has already exceeded my expectations. Indeed, if this was to be a rebuilding year, props to Buzz, and the guys.

[damuts222]

  The landscape of college basketball is changing.  The blue bloods will get the one and doners and thats fine with me.  Most of them are drafted into the NBA based on potential not production anyway.

 I think Marquette will benefit from the current state of collegiate basketball.  With JUCO's who are hungry to prove something with a chip on there shoulder and players that develop over time we have a TEAM.

 

[The Equalizer]

There were a LOT of people who pre-season thought we'd be 13-5

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34105.0

Sitting at 11-4 with three to go suggests we're pretty much matching the expectations of a lot of folks.

My predictions were in there for all to see as well

--I said we'd have 3 non-conferene losses--although the teams were different.

--I thought we'd stuggle in Buzz's suspension game against UConn.  We won.
--I thought we'd lose at Pitt--we won in OT
--I thought we'd beat Villanova--we lost narrowly

So far, we're pretty much matching my expectations.


For the rest of the season:
--I thought we'd split the SU/ND pair, but wasn't commited as to which we'd win.
--I thought we'd split the SJU/Rutgers pair.

Obviously I hope I'm wrong about the last two predictions--but I'm not in the camp that we're doing anything unexpected. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

There were a LOT of people who pre-season thought we'd be 13-5

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34105.0

Sitting at 11-4 with three to go suggests we're pretty much matching the expectations of a lot of folks.

My predictions were in there for all to see as well

--I said we'd have 3 non-conferene losses--although the teams were different.

--I thought we'd stuggle in Buzz's suspension game against UConn.  We won.
--I thought we'd lose at Pitt--we won in OT
--I thought we'd beat Villanova--we lost narrowly

So far, we're pretty much matching my expectations.


For the rest of the season:
--I thought we'd split the SU/ND pair, but wasn't commited as to which we'd win.
--I thought we'd split the SJU/Rutgers pair.

Obviously I hope I'm wrong about the last two predictions--but I'm not in the camp that we're doing anything unexpected. 

You thought we'd go 11-7.  If we go 14-4 and win the conference, wouldn't that be SLIGHTLY above expectations?  Or are you just saying MU hasn't exceeded your expectations YET?

[TJ]

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34105.msg416209#msg416209

I've been here since November.

Be honest... when you said "Win 2 of these 3: Bucky, @UWGB & LSU", did you even think it was a possibility for you to be right this way?

[The Equalizer]

You thought we'd go 11-7.  If we go 14-4 and win the conference, wouldn't that be SLIGHTLY above expectations?  Or are you just saying MU hasn't exceeded your expectations YET?

Yes, of course--thats why don't just predict an overall record, but show game-by-game.  So far, we've been pretty close.

On the other hand--as much as you probably don't want to admit it, it would also reflect other teams underperforming expectations--namely Pitt, Cincy and Syracuse.  Who had Cincy sitting with a losing record this late in the season?  Who thought Syracuse would have five losses?   Or Louisville four?

Finally, I think this thread from November shows the selective memory of those on this board.  I was one of the more pessimistic at 11-7.  A lot of us here had us at 13-5.   I'll bet that some of those are now part of the "nobody predicted us to do well -- our current sucess is completely unexpected."  Well I'm sorry, but if you predicted 13-5 and we go 14-4, we're pretty close to your expectations.   

And all those who say "nobody had high expectations for this team" are simply wrong.

[mu_hilltopper]

With a Sophomore and a Freshman as our PGs?  I think a lot of people are seriously underestimating Cadougan's value on this team.  He does make his fair share of mistakes, but I don't see how Duane Wilson (The great player he will be) is better than Cadougan day 1.  Beyond that, D-Wil will be starting... and he has no offensive game.

Short of Wilson developing a strong offensive game this summer, I can't believe we will be better at PG next year.

Hards is extraordinarily correct here.  Duane Wilson has played a grand total of zero games of D1, Big East point guard.   D-Wil is starting .. and let's not forget his performance to date: near zero offensive production beyond assists, i.e., no need to guard him.

Lots of irrational Cadougan haters out there.  Yeah, he might be the ~8th best starting PG in the Big East, and no where near his MU PG predecessors .. but he must be doing something right.  We're a half game out of first place.

[MU82]

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=34105.msg416209#msg416209

I've been here since November.

I bow to your predicting greatness, Carnac! Please accept my apologies.

And please let me call you when I'm in Vegas next for some advice!!!!

[GGGG]

Hards is extraordinarily correct here.

"Extraordinarily?"  You mean Hards usually isn't all that correct?  

[MU82]

For the record, I am personally excited for next year because there is a lot of experience returning, including a decent Jr. PG (De. Wilson).

The frosh. are certainly intriguing. I think that 1 of them will earn significant minutes make an impact. The others will have to earn spot minutes like Taylor has done this year.

Derrick Wilson is not a great player, but if you surround him with good offensive talent, he'll be solid. His assist/TO ratio is good, and he plays physical defense.

Solid but not spectacular is fine at the PG position with the rest of the guys they are returning. Blue, J. Wilson, Mayo, Gardner and even Taylor Jr. could all average 10+ PPG. Sprinkle in some good role players (like Derrick, Otule, Juan, and (insert player), and the roster rounds out very nicely.

Outside shooting could still be an issue, but hopefully each of the guys gets a little better again in the off season. Don't have to have a Novak type, but as a team, making outside shots will help them spread some teams out.

Plus, defensively, I love that team. If Chris returns, that makes a big difference defensively.

Derrick Wilson has not really had to be a Big East PG yet. A few minutes here, a few minutes there, with very low expectations is a completely different scenario than having to start and play important, crunch-time minutes.

Even last year, when we had Jae and DJO to take the big shots, we were at our best when our PG played above and beyond just being a don't-make-mistakes, play-it-careful guy.

PG is the most important position in basketball. We will miss Good Junior next year but won't miss Bad Junior. Hopefully, Good Duane will be ready to play 15-20 mins or even do a passable Dominic impersonation. Because I have seen nothing these last 2 years to convince me that Derrick Wilson is a major-college starting PG.

[Hards Alumni]

"Extraordinarily?"  You mean Hards usually isn't all that correct?  

lol

[hairy worthen]

Yes, of course--thats why don't just predict an overall record, but show game-by-game.  So far, we've been pretty close.

On the other hand--as much as you probably don't want to admit it, it would also reflect other teams underperforming expectations--namely Pitt, Cincy and Syracuse.  Who had Cincy sitting with a losing record this late in the season?  Who thought Syracuse would have five losses?   Or Louisville four?

Finally, I think this thread from November shows the selective memory of those on this board.  I was one of the more pessimistic at 11-7.  A lot of us here had us at 13-5.   I'll bet that some of those are now part of the "nobody predicted us to do well -- our current sucess is completely unexpected."  Well I'm sorry, but if you predicted 13-5 and we go 14-4, we're pretty close to your expectations.   

And all those who say "nobody had high expectations for this team" are simply wrong.

You are picking one snapshot in time, (before the season when every one is optimistic). I bet people were not so optimistic after the fla game but more optimistic after the WI game. That is what fans do, just read this board after a loss to know that

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Derrick Wilson has not really had to be a Big East PG yet. A few minutes here, a few minutes there, with very low expectations is a completely different scenario than having to start and play important, crunch-time minutes.

Even last year, when we had Jae and DJO to take the big shots, we were at our best when our PG played above and beyond just being a don't-make-mistakes, play-it-careful guy.

PG is the most important position in basketball. We will miss Good Junior next year but won't miss Bad Junior. Hopefully, Good Duane will be ready to play 15-20 mins or even do a passable Dominic impersonation. Because I have seen nothing these last 2 years to convince me that Derrick Wilson is a major-college starting PG.

Except for the PITT game.

Now, I'm not going to take 1 game and extrapolate that, but he's a Soph. guard who is a decent role player.

I have reasonable expectations that he can be a little better next year. Plus I'm hoping that everybody else gets better (esp. shooting), so having a pass-first defensive PG will be fine.

Plus, he's not the only PG option on the roster, so I think Buzz will be able to mix and match.

[Lennys Tap]

People on Scoop are fans of the program and as such tend to see facts sprinkled with a touch of optimism, especially in the preseason. None of the people who get paid to know this stuff, Pomeroy, Vegas, coaches, writers, Dickie V etc., thought we would be this good. It is a recurring theme since Buzz arrived. Kudos to him and to the players.

[The Equalizer]

People on Scoop are fans of the program and as such tend to see facts sprinkled with a touch of optimism, especially in the preseason. None of the people who get paid to know this stuff, Pomeroy, Vegas, coaches, writers, Dickie V etc., thought we would be this good. It is a recurring theme since Buzz arrived. Kudos to him and to the players.

Of course Kudos to Buzz and players. 

But at the same time let's not fall into the false narrative that most people expected a terrible season. The coaches thought we'd finish 7th place--still a very strong performance, and an NCAA caliber team--last year UL got a 4 seed, before that Cincy got a 6 seed.

The way some people around here are posting you'd get the impression that we were a consensus pre-season pick as an NIT team.  That's simply not the case. 

[Lennys Tap]

Of course Kudos to Buzz and players. 

But at the same time let's not fall into the false narrative that most people expected a terrible season. The coaches thought we'd finish 7th place--still a very strong performance, and an NCAA caliber team--last year UL got a 4 seed, before that Cincy got a 6 seed.

The way some people around here are posting you'd get the impression that we were a consensus pre-season pick as an NIT team.  That's simply not the case. 

We were a consensus bubble team. Pomeroy said 9/9.

[MU B2002]

Of course Kudos to Buzz and players. 

But at the same time let's not fall into the false narrative that most people expected a terrible season. The coaches thought we'd finish 7th place--still a very strong performance, and an NCAA caliber team--last year UL got a 4 seed, before that Cincy got a 6 seed.

The way some people around here are posting you'd get the impression that we were a consensus pre-season pick as an NIT team.  That's simply not the case. 

What was the consensus on this board after we got beat by UWGB?

[The Equalizer]

We were a consensus bubble team. Pomeroy said 9/9.

No we weren't.  Now you're just making crap up.  

The Big East coaches picked us for 7th in the league (which recent history suggests is a 4-6 seed).
http://www.bigeast.org/News/tabid/435/Article/237995/Louisville-Chosen-Unanimously-For-First-Place-In-Preseason-Coaches'-Poll.aspx

The initial AP had us ranked 34th and ESPN 36th (equates more like an 8 or 9 seed).

Athlon had us picked 4th in the leauge and "two and done" in the touranment.
http://www.athlonsports.com/nfl/big-east-2012-13-college-basketball-preview

Blue Ribbon had us picked 5th:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/etc/outlook-bright-for-wisconsin-and-marquette-basketball-b278u3f-174682441.html

Fox Sports had us 6th:
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/11/04/college-basketball-preview-big-east-conference/

Cracked Sidewalks concensus was a 12-6 record:
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2012/11/2012-2013-predictions.html

Value Add actually said MU would be favord in 15 of 18 games:
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2012/09/mu-big-east-schedule-despite-lacking.html

Maybe Pomoroy did pick us as a bubble team---without you providing the link, I suspect that this another one of your "recollections" that differ from reality--but even if Pomeroy DID pick us as a bubble team, it was hardly a "consensus."  

Bnless something that hasn't happened in a decade--a 4th to 7th place Big East team with a 12-6 record falls to the NCAA bubble--the reality is that almost NOBODY thought we were a bubble team.  

The predictions here echoed what nearly everyone in the world thought--upper half of the big east, NCAA team, not as good as last year.

And now that I've gone back to re-read the pre-seaosn reviews, the more I conclude that we are where we are today not becuase we're doing anything unexpected, but based on the fact that we are the beneficiaries (along with Georgetown) of huget let-downs by UL and Syracuse and to a lesser extend Pitt and Notre Dame.  
So again, enough with the false narrative that nobody expected us to be good. 

[Pakuni]

So the consensus heading into the season was that MU would finish somewhere between fourth and seventh in conference.
With three winnable games remaining, MU is well-positioned to finish in the top three, and perhaps even win the league.
No one could reasonably argue that MU isn't exceeding expectations.
You're all just debating to what degree.

[Silkk the Shaka]

So the consensus heading into the season was that MU would finish somewhere between fourth and seventh in conference.
With three winnable games remaining, MU is well-positioned to finish in the top three, and perhaps even win the league.
No one could reasonably argue that MU isn't exceeding expectations.
You're all just debating to what degree.

Yep.  With one arguing that it isn't MU exceeding expectations, it's just other teams sucking.  Awesome.

[MU82]

My debate is with myself. I thought I was being optimistic when I said 9-9 in the league and on the bubble. Now here we are, still with a chance to win the league with 10 days left in the season. In this case, being wrong is wonderful!

[Lennys Tap]

Yep.  With one arguing that it isn't MU exceeding expectations, it's just other teams sucking.  Awesome.

Yeah. Other teams that STARTED sucking AFTER the Big East season began. He is what he is and fools absolutely no one

[jmayer1]

And now that I've gone back to re-read the pre-seaosn reviews, the more I conclude that we are where we are today not becuase we're doing anything unexpected, but based on the fact that we are the beneficiaries (along with Georgetown) of huget let-downs by UL and Syracuse and to a lesser extend Pitt and Notre Dame.  
So again, enough with the false narrative that nobody expected us to be good. 

Logic fail. If Syracuse and Pitt both win all their respective games against us, are they not having a let-down?

[The Equalizer]

Yeah. Other teams that STARTED sucking AFTER the Big East season began. He is what he is and fools absolutely no one

The only people here trying to fool anyone are those who promote the fiction that were a bubble team or worse at the start of the year.

Your typical sandbagging has gotten worse over the years.  Now instead of just setting artifically low expectations up front, you now create non-existent low expectations after the fact.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Logic fail. If Syracuse and Pitt both win all their respective games against us, are they not having a let-down?

Exactly - MU & Georgetown have CONTRIBUTED to many of those losses for the supposed "let down" teams.