We shouldn't give up on Gonzaga

[keefe]

Please please please have MU in Gonzaga's bracket if they get a #1 seed.

God help us if we are

[Montana Warrior]

I live in the midst of Zags country here in Seattle. Tens of thousands of GU alums here in the Puget Sound. There is absolutely fevered talk amongst this crowd of joining a real cbb conference, especially one that features universities with similar traditions and missions. Believe me, they see GU as the national program it truly is and want the Zags to take their rightful place on a bigger stage. They are ashamed to  retreat back into the low major WCC, where they feast on cupcakes and earn NCAA tourney berths that are tarnished by the weakness of their schedule.  The days of GU being a media darling are numbered so long as they remain in the WCC. I listen to Andy Katz and know that he is far more connected than any poster on this board; if he is hearing the Zags are looking at the C7 then there is much more credibility in his insight than anyone at Scoop. The Catholic 7 is looking to Spokane and the Zags are seriously considering investigating leaving their current home in a low major conference which they have long since outgrown.

[Montana Warrior]

Andy Katz manufactures news as much as he reports it.  Ask Jimmy Boeheim, he isn't wrong.  Only consecutive Final Fours or a NCAA championship gets the Zags out of the WCC.

[keefe]

Andy Katz manufactures news as much as he reports it.  Ask Jimmy Boeheim, he isn't wrong.  Only consecutive Final Fours or a NCAA championship gets the Zags out of the WCC.

Mark Few wants out of the WCC:

"We're happy with where we're at but we're going to continue to monitor everything that's going on," Few said. "We've built ourselves into a national program and we're going to do what's best for Gonzaga. Because of our success, we've put ourselves into a position where we're attractive to other entities out there."

[ChicosBailBonds]

God help us if we are

Why do you overrate them so much?  Is it the scary woodshed beating they put on Univ of San Diego recently by two points?  The fact they were up 5 on might San Francisco with 5 minutes to go last week?  Their home loss to the 6th place Big Ten team? 

They haven't played a top notched team in more than 6 weeks when they hit the NCAA tournament. Please have MU in their bracket!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

I live in the midst of Zags country here in Seattle. Tens of thousands of GU alums here in the Puget Sound. There is absolutely fevered talk amongst this crowd of joining a real cbb conference, especially one that features universities with similar traditions and missions. Believe me, they see GU as the national program it truly is and want the Zags to take their rightful place on a bigger stage. They are ashamed to  retreat back into the low major WCC, where they feast on cupcakes and earn NCAA tourney berths that are tarnished by the weakness of their schedule.  The days of GU being a media darling are numbered so long as they remain in the WCC. I listen to Andy Katz and know that he is far more connected than any poster on this board; if he is hearing the Zags are looking at the C7 then there is much more credibility in his insight than anyone at Scoop. The Catholic 7 is looking to Spokane and the Zags are seriously considering investigating leaving their current home in a low major conference which they have long since outgrown.

Well if Andy Katz says so........

Gonzaga should look out for other opportunities, they are fools not to.  C7 should look at them, doesn't mean a marriage is happening anytime soon.  Geography kills them, especially if no one takes their terrible sports programs off their hands for another conference, and why would any other conference do them that favor?  The conference commissioner that agrees to that deal better get massive $$$ for taking on the Zags baseball, volleyball, track, soccer, etc programs because it's a loser situation for that conference.

[keefe]

Well if Andy Katz says so........

Gonzaga should look out for other opportunities, they are fools not to.  C7 should look at them, doesn't mean a marriage is happening anytime soon.  Geography kills them, especially if no one takes their terrible sports programs off their hands for another conference, and why would any other conference do them that favor?  The conference commissioner that agrees to that deal better get massive $$$ for taking on the Zags baseball, volleyball, track, soccer, etc programs because it's a loser situation for that conference.

What will kill GU joining will be not finding a home for their Olympic sports.

[Montana Warrior]

What will kill GU joining will be not finding a home for their Olympic sports.

Does that include exotic mushroom collecting?

[Aughnanure]

Why, and how, do their Olympic sports suck so much? At least that's the impression I'm getting from some posters here. SF, Santa Clara, Pepperdine, and LMU all have good overall athletic departments.

[Marqevans]

Why does this keep coming up? The logistics of this just is going to be too hard on all the student athletes.  The timing of games will be bad for the fans unless they are all played on weekends.  It would be most difficult for the Gonzaga.

[chapman]

Why does this keep coming up? The logistics of this just is going to be too hard on all the student athletes.  The timing of games will be bad for the fans unless they are all played on weekends.  It would be most difficult for the Gonzaga.

Yep, and damned either way I think.  Sending all the "other" sports traveling east constantly might be cheaper than paying some conference to let you stick in all of your non-revenue sports...they'd demand "pay to play", a strong non-conference basketball scheduling arrangement, or a combination.  Then if you're the C7 relying on basketball money to fund your other sports, you don't want to give Gonzaga equal basketball money when they don't share the non-basketball expenses within conference...logistics are just way too burdening.

[keefe]

Why, and how, do their Olympic sports suck so much? At least that's the impression I'm getting from some posters here. SF, Santa Clara, Pepperdine, and LMU all have good overall athletic departments.

They don't. That's just Chicos trying to blow smoke up your a$$. Gonzaga's athletic program is competitive. I can't understand why he hates the idea of the Zags joining us.

[TedBaxter]

Chico is looking at it in both a financial and student/athlete point of view. 

The travel for the Gonzaga student/athletes would be ridiculous.  Just looking at it in a time zone situation, the Zags closest road game would be two time zones away.  The east coast games would start at 4:00 p.m., so most of your alums (west coast) would have to take off work on a weekday to watch the games.  That also leads to west coast alums NEVER being able to see a conference game if they aren't season ticket holders in Spokane or if they don't travel to a road game.  No more conference games in San Diego, LA, they Bay Area or Portland.  I'm not even going to get into the travel costs for the non-revenue sports where they'd have to fly everywhere.

I just don't understand how people can't see this.

[keefe]

Chico is looking at it in both a financial and student/athlete point of view. 

The travel for the Gonzaga student/athletes would be ridiculous.  Just looking at it in a time zone situation, the Zags closest road game would be two time zones away.  The east coast games would start at 4:00 p.m., so most of your alums (west coast) would have to take off work on a weekday to watch the games.  That also leads to west coast alums NEVER being able to see a conference game if they aren't season ticket holders in Spokane or if they don't travel to a road game.  No more conference games in San Diego, LA, they Bay Area or Portland.  I'm not even going to get into the travel costs for the non-revenue sports where they'd have to fly everywhere.

I just don't understand how people can't see this.

They fly everywhere now! They aren't taking the Silver Dog to Socal!

[Norm]

Gonzaga is #3 in the country, probably won't lose again in the regular season and tournament, has a #1 seed locked up in the NCAA's and could finish the regular season as #1 if Indiana loses, which is more likely than Gonzaga losing at this point. Why would they want to mess with this formula? They play roughly 3-4 tough non-conference games and then play a cupcake league schedule with 2 hard games and coast to the NCAA's every year. if they can do this now, why switch?

[brewcity77]

Gonzaga is #3 in the country, probably won't lose again in the regular season and tournament, has a #1 seed locked up in the NCAA's and could finish the regular season as #1 if Indiana loses, which is more likely than Gonzaga losing at this point. Why would they want to mess with this formula? They play roughly 3-4 tough non-conference games and then play a cupcake league schedule with 2 hard games and coast to the NCAA's every year. if they can do this now, why switch?

Well, this is hardly the norm. Gonzaga isn't one of the top four teams in the country on a yearly basis. This year is as much about the rest of the country sucking as it is Gonzaga playing in a crappy conference. Most years this Gonzaga team is a 3-seed at best, probably 4-5.

But that's beside the point. As much as a few people (warthog, VMC) are still holding out hope, this just isn't going to happen. The logistics are simply too much. Maybe if Gonzaga were in Seattle, or if Gonzaga had top-notch non-revenue sports, or Gonzaga was another 500 miles east, then maybe. But none of those are the case.

Creighton is as far west as we will go, at least for now.

[slingkong]

It is 6 hours to Spokane to NYC/Philly/Providence.  That a long flight but at least the basketball team flies private and in directly.  

To send the soccer team (which number 30 to 40 people when players, coaches, trainers and others are considered) one-way to Spokane on a charter is more than 50k.  100k round trip.  I doubt the school spends this much on the entire program (not including scholarships).

I understand your point re. travel costs for non-revenue sports, but you're really overstating your case here. Unless you're talking about the men's and women's team traveling at the same time, where in the world did you get the idea that it would be that many people? Speaking of experience, it would be 25-ish, unless Lil' Louis has added a lot of assistants.

[ChicosBailBonds]

They don't. That's just Chicos trying to blow smoke up your a$$. Gonzaga's athletic program is competitive. I can't understand why he hates the idea of the Zags joining us.

They do suck, it's not me at all.  I don't hate the idea at all, they are a solid program, I just don't see why they would do it.  I'll use facts to back it up.

If you look at their all sports ratings (Commissioner's Cup) in the WCC, they finish in the bottom almost every year.

REMEMBER, these rankings are WITH men's basketball included.  Take them out for the "other sports" and they are even worse.

2011-12 WCC Commissioner's Cup

Overall
1. San Diego 76.5
2. BYU 69.0
3. Pepperdine 67.5
4. Saint Mary's 65.0
5. San Francisco 61.5
6. Loyola Marymount 58.0
7. Gonzaga 54.5
8. Santa Clara 54.0
9. Portland 47.0


2010-11 West Coast Conference Commissioner's Cup Final Standings

Overall
1. San Diego 62.5
2. Santa Clara 61.0
3. San Francisco 59.0
4t. Portland 57.5
4t. Saint Mary's 57.5
6. Gonzaga 51.0
7. Loyola Marymount 50.5
8. Pepperdine 42.0


2009 - 2010 WCC Commissioner’s Cup
San Diego 66.0
Pepperdine 62.5
Portland 57.0
Saint Mary’s 56.5
Santa Clara 55.5
San Francisco 55.0
Loyola Marymount 47.0
Gonzaga 46.5


2008-09 WCC Commissioner’s Cup
San Diego 64.0
San Francisco 62.5
Pepperdine 60.5
Loyola Marymount 58.5
Portland 57.0
Gonzaga 56.5
Saint Mary’s 47.0
Santa Clara 40.0

[Coleman]

They do suck, it's not me at all.  I don't hate the idea at all, they are a solid program, I just don't see why they would do it.  I'll use facts to back it up.

If you look at their all sports ratings (Commissioner's Cup) in the WCC, they finish in the bottom almost every year.

REMEMBER, these rankings are WITH men's basketball included.  Take them out for the "other sports" and they are even worse.

2011-12 WCC Commissioner's Cup

Overall
1. San Diego 76.5
2. BYU 69.0
3. Pepperdine 67.5
4. Saint Mary's 65.0
5. San Francisco 61.5
6. Loyola Marymount 58.0
7. Gonzaga 54.5
8. Santa Clara 54.0
9. Portland 47.0


2010-11 West Coast Conference Commissioner's Cup Final Standings

Overall
1. San Diego 62.5
2. Santa Clara 61.0
3. San Francisco 59.0
4t. Portland 57.5
4t. Saint Mary's 57.5
6. Gonzaga 51.0
7. Loyola Marymount 50.5
8. Pepperdine 42.0


2009 - 2010 WCC Commissioner’s Cup
San Diego 66.0
Pepperdine 62.5
Portland 57.0
Saint Mary’s 56.5
Santa Clara 55.5
San Francisco 55.0
Loyola Marymount 47.0
Gonzaga 46.5


2008-09 WCC Commissioner’s Cup
San Diego 64.0
San Francisco 62.5
Pepperdine 60.5
Loyola Marymount 58.5
Portland 57.0
Gonzaga 56.5
Saint Mary’s 47.0
Santa Clara 40.0

Honestly, who cares. Its a basketball-focused conference.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Honestly, who cares. Its a basketball-focused conference.

It matters in the context of who is going to take them.  Keefe has argued that Gonzaga will join in basketball only and the Olympic sports will be housed elsewhere.  What I have been asking is, who on earth is going to take Gonzaga's dreadful sports program outside of the men's basketball team and why would they do it?  The rest of the athletic department sports don't bring anything to the table, so why would the WCC allow them to stay if hoops bolts?  Makes no sense.

If you bring their Olympic sports with them to the C7, then it becomes a much bigger cost issue for us and the rest of the league.  So basketball focused or not, this is a complete conference, not just hoops and there are ramifications to decisions.

[akmarq]

I think people are arguing at cross purposes. The question isn't whether the new conference would TAKE Gonzaga...it would. The question is whether GONZAGA will want to join. They certainly want to join for basketball, but there are a lot more factors at play here.

It seems to me that the real choice they have to make is whether it is financially feesible for them to travel as much as joining the new conference as an all-sport member would require. This is most certainly a real concern for them and I trust GU to come to the correct answer on this (something tells me they are doing a bit more than google-mapping distances).

If the travel is feesible, they join. If not, they explore a basketball only option. If they can leave their other sports in the WCC and move men's (and also women's?) basketball to the C7, they are likely to go for it. If not, then it becomes time to find someone else to take their Olympic sports. If no one will, then they stay in the WCC until they find a better option.