We shouldn't give up on Gonzaga

[Tugg Speedman]

Milwaukee has joined the 90's. Southwest now flies outta here.

No direct flights Milw to Spokane ... 8 hours of flying to get their (not counting delays)

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

The Zags are an elite program. We need them.

The Zags are not an elite program.  They have never been to a Final Four, and have been to five Sweet 16s.  They are a good program no doubt...but "elite?"  If that's the case I would love to hear the adjective you use to describe Marquette - much less schools like Duke.

And while it would be nice to work things out with them, we certainly don't "need" them.

You are over stating their value.

[Windyplayer]

Read my first post. For $4 million a year, I think they would. Anyone know what their current WCC deal is worth?

This. Let's not forget why were in this position. CREAM.

[4everwarriors]

Maybe keefe will volunteer to fly the team pro bono in a DC-3.

[Tugg Speedman]

We all realize the only reason this came up now is they are #3 this week.  And the unstated assumption is  they will be #3 every week forever.  So, we are torturing reason to figure out how to get a top 5 team in our conference, even to the point that we will reduce our games against eastern teams, which is suicidal.

If they were "other receiving votes" this week, no one would give them a second thought.

[Pakuni]

Now, we play DePaul twice ... same thing

Now you're just being silly.
DePaul, for all their faults, is the top team in the #3 market in the country. They averaged more than 7,700 fans per game last year, have a strong tradition and brand recognition.
Duquesne is the second team in the #23 market. They average 3,200 fans per game and have no tradition or brand recognition.

But yeah, same thing.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

We all realize the only reason this came up now is they are #3 this week.  

Right.  And my guess is that even if they end up with a #1 seed, they will get "upset" sometime before the Final Four. 

According to this Marquette has the sixth highest strength of schedule, and top outside of the Big Ten.  Gonzaga is #54, right ahead of Wyoming.

http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team

[akmarq]

All this 'Mid-Major' crap is also forgetting that WE HAD NO BETTER OPTIONS.

No one thinks this is Big East 2.0 but we weren't going to get a better deal from realignment than the C7. Complaining about the quality of the teams in the C7 is just masturbatory gloom and doom.

Argue for the marginal merits of one addition or another, but don't just whine about the existence of the new conference and it not being as good as the Big East.

[brewcity77]

Gonzaga isn't happening. They have a great program and I'd love for us to look at a home-and-home or maybe a neutral court series, one in Seattle and one in Chicago, but they won't be part of this league. There's a reason their name hasn't come up for the past couple months. Accept that there will be no Gonzaga and look at the best remaining options. It's just the reality of the situation.

[MU82]

Gonzaga isn't happening. They have a great program and I'd love for us to look at a home-and-home or maybe a neutral court series, one in Seattle and one in Chicago, but they won't be part of this league. There's a reason their name hasn't come up for the past couple months. Accept that there will be no Gonzaga and look at the best remaining options. It's just the reality of the situation.

Oh sure, that's just like you, going with common sense and facts and stuff.

Reality? Come on! That's not what fan boards are for!!!

[setyoursightsnorth]

Oh sure, that's just like you, going with common sense and facts and stuff.

Reality? Come on! That's not what fan boards are for!!!

I would take common sense and reality over the stupidity that makes its way onto this board any day...

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

All this 'Mid-Major' crap is also forgetting that WE HAD NO BETTER OPTIONS.

No one thinks this is Big East 2.0 but we weren't going to get a better deal from realignment than the C7. Complaining about the quality of the teams in the C7 is just masturbatory gloom and doom.

Argue for the marginal merits of one addition or another, but don't just whine about the existence of the new conference and it not being as good as the Big East.

+1

[brewcity77]

Oh sure, that's just like you, going with common sense and facts and stuff.

Reality? Come on! That's not what fan boards are for!!!

Sorry 

Let's send Duke an invite and suggest they torpedo their football program

[Coleman]

We all realize the only reason this came up now is they are #3 this week.  And the unstated assumption is  they will be #3 every week forever.  So, we are torturing reason to figure out how to get a top 5 team in our conference, even to the point that we will reduce our games against eastern teams, which is suicidal.

If they were "other receiving votes" this week, no one would give them a second thought.

Actually, I was looking at their 14 straight NCAA tournament appearances.

[Big Papi]

We don't need Gonzaga in our conference.  Membership will be what is best for all schools in the conference which means a balance of long term stability and money.  They will pick the best schools in the East/Midwest that will help generate the most revenue, minimize expenses, fits the academic integrity of all schools involved and doesn't plan on leaving for a long, long time.

Our non-conference schedule going forward will make up for any short-comings our league might have.  Why have Gonzaga in the conference if you can schedule a non-conference game with them and if not Gonzaga, Louisville, ND, Syracuse, Memphis, etc.  The weaker the conference, the stronger the non-conference schedule.  Gonzaga seems to do it every year and look at them, top 3 in the country this year.

[Tugg Speedman]

All this 'Mid-Major' crap is also forgetting that WE HAD NO BETTER OPTIONS.

No one thinks this is Big East 2.0 but we weren't going to get a better deal from realignment than the C7. Complaining about the quality of the teams in the C7 is just masturbatory gloom and doom.

Argue for the marginal merits of one addition or another, but don't just whine about the existence of the new conference and it not being as good as the Big East.

The issue is not inviting Gonzaga ... everyone would love to have them.  The issue is whether we would be willing to split the C7 into an east and west division to accommodate them.  I'm arguing that if we get put in a west division that further waters down the C7 making our division a mid-major.

Actually....
Gonzaga > Georgetown
MU > Nova
Butler > Xavier
Creighton > Richmond
St. Louis > Providence
DePaul = Seton Hall
This is better in almost every regard.

The perfect message board response, take what happen this week and assume that will be the status quo forever.   So what will this look like in two years (remember the C7 does not even start for two years).  Well let's look back two years ago.  Week 17 2011 ...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings/_/year/2011/week/17/seasontype/2

EAST
St. John = #15
GU = #17
Nova = #19
X = #23
SH = no votes
PC = no votes

WEST
Butler = other receiving votes (3)
MU = no votes
Gonzaga = no votes
St. Louis = no votes
Creighton = no votes
DePaul = no votes

Would we have been as excited about splitting into a west division of the C7 if this was the voting this week?  I would argue it would have been suicidal.  

How do we know this will not be the voting pattern in two years? (except for MU, of course )

[tower912]

How do we know the Mayans weren't just off by a year.   Life is a crapshoot.   There are no better deals out there. 

[MUMountin]

The issue is whether we would be willing to split the C7 into an east and west division to accommodate them.  I'm arguing that if we get put in a west division that further waters down the C7 making our division a mid-major.

To me, this is the whole argument for keeping the conference smaller--divisions end up creating imbalance.  Keep it at 10, play a true round-robin, and you end up with a pretty nice schedule, with a mix of top schools to get marquee wins and a couple of bunnies in conference to pad the numbers.

[Coleman]

The issue is not inviting Gonzaga ... everyone would love to have them.  The issue is whether we would be willing to split the C7 into an east and west division to accommodate them.  I'm arguing that if we get put in a west division that further waters down the C7 making our division a mid-major.

The perfect message board response, take what happen this week and assume that will be the status quo forever.   So what will this look like in two years (remember the C7 does not even start for two years).  Well let's look back two years ago.  Week 17 2011 ...

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings/_/year/2011/week/17/seasontype/2

EAST
St. John = #15
GU = #17
Nova = #19
X = #23
SH = no votes
PC = no votes

WEST
Butler = other receiving votes (3)
MU = no votes
Gonzaga = no votes
St. Louis = no votes
Creighton = no votes
DePaul = no votes

Would we have been as excited about splitting into a west division of the C7 if this was the voting this week?  I would argue it would have been suicidal.  

How do we know this will not be the voting pattern in two years? (except for MU, of course )

Dude, you just cherry picked a week that was incredibly good for the eastern teams and terrible for the western ones.

How is that representative of what has really happened over the past few years?

Is MU usually unranked? How often is St. Johns #15 in the country?

Look at tournament appearances over the past decade (2003 to present).

EAST = 25
WEST = 29

[Benny B]

The perfect message board response, take what happen this week and assume that will be the status quo forever.   So what will this look like in two years (remember the C7 does not even start for two years).  Well let's look back two years ago.  Week 17 2011 ...

So it's acceptable for you to assume the status quo, but it's not ok for the rest of us to do the same.  Got it.

[keefe]

Maybe keefe will volunteer to fly the team pro bono in a DC-3.

Tail dragger. 200 kts. 20k'.

Could save time and money if teams parachute vs landing at field.

No Pro Bono. Islay Single Malt. And Cubans.



Marquette flying to Omaha

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually, I was looking at their 14 straight NCAA tournament appearances.

Badgers must be Elite then with their 14 straight.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No direct flights Milw to Spokane ... 8 hours of flying to get their (not counting delays)

Something tells me we would charter directly....now, if non basketball teams were involved because we had to take on their volleyball, tennis, golf, etc programs....nightmare travel.  Probably through SLC

[ChicosBailBonds]

Quote today from sources

Sources said that the "three to five new members need not be Catholic schools." The sources added "geographical coherence" is expected. Schools joining the Catholic 7 will "have to agree to surrender their media rights to the conference for a significant number of years -- possibly the life of the league’s first TV contract, whether that’s five, seven or 10 years" (WASHINGTON POST, 2/22).

[Tugg Speedman]

To me, this is the whole argument for keeping the conference smaller--divisions end up creating imbalance.  Keep it at 10, play a true round-robin, and you end up with a pretty nice schedule, with a mix of top schools to get marquee wins and a couple of bunnies in conference to pad the numbers.

+1

I'm trying to argue splitting into east and west, for the express purpose of getting Gonzaga, is a bad deal for MU.  The better deal is to keep it a complete conference and play everyone equally.

C7 is a high D1 conference.  Split into divisions and we could wind up with a mid-major division like two years ago showed.

Dude, you just cherry picked a week that was incredibly good for the eastern teams and terrible for the western ones.

How is that representative of what has really happened over the past few years?
Is MU usually unranked? How often is St. Johns #15 in the country?
Look at tournament appearances over the past decade (2003 to present).

EAST = 25
WEST = 29

VM is making my point here.  Keep it together as this conference averaged 44*** bids since 2003 (10 years.) or an average of 4.5/year for an 11 team conference.  That is high D1 by any measure.

*** = the 54 listed above less the 10 bids Gonzaga = 44