The Trend In Attendance (2012/2013 edition)

[Tugg Speedman]

Still a shot... Need 18,563 in the house to get to 240,000 (15k/game). I think there's a legitimate shot, with how hot of a ticket it is.

Through the Syracuse game-
ATTENDANCE SUMMARY         GAMES   TOTALS   AVG/GAME
HOME....................                15       221437      14762

As noted above, attendance has declined for 4 straight years.  

After 15 games last year total attendance was 223,118 (14,875/avg) or 1,681 ahead of this year.

The last game of last year was Georgetown and it drew 19,087 for a total season attendance of 242,205 (15,138/avg).  To break this we would need 20,768 which is physically impossible.  However, if we draw 18,555 Saturday we will average exactly 15,000 for the season.

[jsglow]

Still a shot... Need 18,563 in the house to get to 240,000 (15k/game). I think there's a legitimate shot, with how hot of a ticket it is.

Through the Syracuse game-
ATTENDANCE SUMMARY         GAMES   TOTALS   AVG/GAME
HOME....................                15       221437      14762

Yes, I stand corrected.  I did my math relative to the 15,138 number from last year which is no longer attainable.  Sorry guys.

[jsglow]

Uppers in the corner and behind the basket are just too expensive. Make them $9 for all games and you will sell out against the good opponents.

I think in the new conference (and even next year in what's left of the Big East) something is gonna have to give. We will have fewer elite opponents. Ticket prices can't stay where they are, or we will be seeing attendance in the 12,000ish range for some conference games, which is unacceptable IMO.

+1


Warriorchick and I will get an opportunity to voice our opinion this Saturday at the very highest level.  One of the things we will surely indicate is that a successful Men's basketball program is absolutely critical to the overall health of the university and is a central driver in making all things at Marquette possible.  We somehow forgot that lesson in the '80s and paid a very steep price for many years.

[Coleman]

If they aren't already, they should be giving those unsold seats (especially for the non-con cupcake games) to grade school and high school groups for next to nothing.  Loyalty to a team can start really young, and today's Boy Scout field trip participant could become tomorrow's freshman - or season-ticket holder.

Great idea

[Tugg Speedman]

Warriorchick and I will get an opportunity to voice our opinion this Saturday at the very highest level.  One of the things we will surely indicate is that a successful Men's basketball program is absolutely critical to the overall health of the university and is a central driver in making all things at Marquette possible.  We somehow forgot that lesson in the '80s and paid a very steep price for many years.

+1

struggling basketball and neighbors eating people certainly hurt the school in the 80s.  The school can do something about the former and only hope the latter is not repeated again.

[LloydMooresLegs]

Great idea

They do at least offer free tickets to HS seniors who have been accepted- and ND is one of the games offered this year

[keefe]

+1


Warriorchick and I will get an opportunity to voice our opinion this Saturday at the very highest level.  One of the things we will surely indicate is that a successful Men's basketball program is absolutely critical to the overall health of the university and is a central driver in making all things at Marquette possible.  We somehow forgot that lesson in the '80s and paid a very steep price for many years.

So the hiring of Tommy Amaker has been critical to Harvard's overall health? The health of a University must rest on many far more crucial factors. Intercollegiate athletics is marketing and far removed from the enterprise's core competencies. If your premise is correct, that the Men's basketball program, " is a central driver in making all things at Marquette possible," then the University has far more critical foundational issues.

Living in the developing world it has come out that I was graduated from Marquette University. Not once has someone referenced the basketball program. But in many cases it is the University's Jesuit heritage that has held meaning for others. I would have it no other way.

[Tugg Speedman]

So the hiring of Tommy Amaker has been critical to Harvard's overall health? The health of a University must rest on many far more crucial factors. Intercollegiate athletics is marketing and far removed from the enterprise's core competencies. If your premise is correct, that the Men's basketball program, " is a central driver in making all things at Marquette possible," then the University has far more critical foundational issues.

Living in the developing world it has come out that I was graduated from Marquette University. Not once has someone referenced the basketball program. But in many cases it is the University's Jesuit heritage that has held meaning for others. I would have it no other way.

A 100 years ago, if Knute Rockne went to Valpo instead of ND, would ND be any different than St' Joes of Indiana or today's Valpo?

The basketball program is the school's marketing tool.  It makes us known and (unfortunately) we in the US associate name recognition with academic success (I say unfortunately because football/basketball success does not mean academic success).  

Without that name recognition, MU is no different than Canisius, Fairfield, John Carroll, Regis, Rickhurst, Seattle University, University of Scranton or Springhill (all Jesuit Universities).  Can you tell me the city all these schools are in?  Ok, how about this list of Jesuit Universities ... Boston College, Creighton, Georgetown, Marquette, St. Louis and Xavier .. not mention DePaul, ND, PC, Seton Hall and Villanova.

Harvard (and most of the Ivies) stand as an exception to this rule.  Their name recognition stands alone.

[warriorchick]

They do at least offer free tickets to HS seniors who have been accepted- and ND is one of the games offered this year

Are you sure?  I recall having to pay for the tickets for my son and his buddy to go to the Georgetown game last year.

[warriorchick]

A 100 years ago, if Knute Rockne went to Valpo instead of ND, would ND be any different than St' Joes of Indiana or today's Valpo?

The basketball program is the school's marketing tool.  It makes us known and (unfortunately) we in the US associate name recognition with academic success (I say unfortunately because football/basketball success does not mean academic success).  

Without that name recognition, MU is no different than Canisius, Fairfield, John Carroll, Regis, Rickhurst, Seattle University, University of Scranton or Springhill (all Jesuit Universities).  Can you tell me the city all these schools are in?  Ok, how about this list of Jesuit Universities ... Boston College, Creighton, Georgetown, Marquette, St. Louis and Xavier .. not mention DePaul, ND, PC, Seton Hall and Villanova.

Harvard (and most of the Ivies) stand as an exception to this rule.  Their name recognition stands alone.

+1

With the exception of the Ivies, I'd be hard-pressed to name a private college of any national significance that has not been an athletic powerhouse at one point or another in its history.

[jsglow]

Let's face it.  Without Al, Marquette could very well be Loyola's poor neighbor to the north.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Uppers in the corner and behind the basket are just too expensive. Make them $9 for all games and you will sell out against the good opponents.

I think in the new conference (and even next year in what's left of the Big East) something is gonna have to give. We will have fewer elite opponents. Ticket prices can't stay where they are, or we will be seeing attendance in the 12,000ish range for some conference games, which is unacceptable IMO.

Simple financial analysis would determine if it is worth doing that or not.  If you drop the price but don't get enough incremental butts in the seat to make up for the revenue loss, then you might not do it.  Depends what is more important to them.

Upper corners are $12 right now.  Say there are 2000 seats there for $12 and you sell 50% of them at $12 for $12,000 in revenue per game.  If you drop prices to $9 and increase sales by 50% to 1,500 tickets, you get $13,500.  No brainer.  If you get only 1,250 sales (still an improvement of 25% in ticket sales) your revenue is only $11,250 and dropped 6.25%.  You have to make sure the gain in volume is enough to accommodate the price point lowering.

[warriorchick]

Simple financial analysis would determine if it is worth doing that or not.  If you drop the price but don't get enough incremental butts in the seat to make up for the revenue loss, then you might not do it.  Depends what is more important to them.

Upper corners are $12 right now.  Say there are 2000 seats there for $12 and you sell 50% of them at $12 for $12,000 in revenue per game.  If you drop prices to $9 and increase sales by 50% to 1,500 tickets, you get $13,500.  No brainer.  If you get only 1,250 sales (still an improvement of 25% in ticket sales) your revenue is only $11,250 and dropped 6.25%.  You have to make sure the gain in volume is enough to accommodate the price point lowering.

Does Marquette get any cut of the ancillary revenues (beer, parking, etc.)?  If so you would have to factor that in.  More butts in the seats means increased sales of nachos.

[mu_hilltopper]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, math is not appreciated here.

But anyhow .. there are no $12 tickets.  $9 is the cheapest end-zone seats, and that's for cupcakes.  BE games are $15, $20 for premium.  

http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/marq/graphics/auto/MBB-SG-Prices-1213.jpg

[jsglow]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, math is not appreciated here.

But anyhow .. there are no $12 tickets.  $9 is the cheapest end-zone seats, and that's for cupcakes.  BE games are $15, $20 for premium.  

http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/marq/graphics/auto/MBB-SG-Prices-1213.jpg

Yep.  Simply too much.  $100 to take a family of 4 if you include nominal concessions.

[keefe]

+1

With the exception of the Ivies, I'd be hard-pressed to name a private college of any national significance that has not been an athletic powerhouse at one point or another in its history.

Here is a listing of private colleges who have never been athletic powerhouses and whose reputation is built strictly on academic excellence. All of these schools enjoy a more prestigious reputation than any of the schools in the current Big East, including our own alma mater. As I mentioned in another thread, if I see one of these schools on a CV I will make time to interview that person. In my volunteer work abroad I have found the preponderance of young volunteers tend to come from schools such as these. I really do believe many of these private schools emphasize social justice, community, global responsibility as part of the core curriculum.  Excellence on the athletic field is great marketing for a University but it has nothing to do with a college's primary mission of education. One should not confuse the two.

Cal Tech
Williams
Amherst
Wellesley
MIT
Swarthmore
Haverford
Bowdoin
Vassar
Kenyon
Oberlin
Carleton
Colby
Middlebury
Johns Hopkins
Union College
Claremont McKenna
Colgate
Smith
Pomona
Harvey Mudd
Washington & Lee
Bryn Mawr
Wesleyan
Brandeis
Tufts
Barnard
Rice
DePauw
Reed
Washington University
Hamilton
Connecticut College
Hampden-Sydney
Skidmore
Lafayette

[warriorchick]

Here is a listing of private colleges who have never been athletic powerhouses and whose reputation is built strictly on academic excellence. All of these schools enjoy a more prestigious reputation than any of the schools in the current Big East, including our own alma mater. As I mentioned in another thread, if I see one of these schools on a CV I will make time to interview that person. In my volunteer work abroad I have found the preponderance of young volunteers tend to come from schools such as these. I really do believe many of these private schools emphasize social justice, community, global responsibility as part of the core curriculum.  Excellence on the athletic field is great marketing for a University but it has nothing to do with a college's primary mission of education. One should not confuse the two.

Cal Tech
Williams
Amherst
Wellesley
MIT
Swarthmore
Haverford
Bowdoin
Vassar
Kenyon
Oberlin
Carleton
Colby
Middlebury
Johns Hopkins
Union College
Claremont McKenna
Colgate
Smith
Pomona
Harvey Mudd
Washington & Lee
Bryn Mawr
Wesleyan
Brandeis
Tufts
Barnard
Rice
DePauw
Reed
Washington University
Hamilton
Connecticut College
Hampden-Sydney
Skidmore
Lafayette

Keefe, honey, we need to find you a hobby.

And I didn't say they didn't exist, I said I would be hard-pressed to name one.  You've outdone yourself.  And to be fair, most of the schools on this list don't have more than a couple of thousand undergrads.  It's really hard for any small school to rise to national prominence in sports.

And no, I don't need a list of schools that have.  But thanks, anyway.

[Newsdreams]

Are you sure?  I recall having to pay for the tickets for my son and his buddy to go to the Georgetown game last year.

Yes, my son got them 4 years ago and I know a couple of accepted students this year that got the ND complementary tickets. But the sheet of paper looks more like a promotion for the game than tickets.

[Tugg Speedman]

Keefe, honey, we need to find you a hobby.

And I didn't say they didn't exist, I said I would be hard-pressed to name one.  You've outdone yourself.  And to be fair, most of the schools on this list don't have more than a couple of thousand undergrads.  It's really hard for any small school to rise to national prominence in sports.

And no, I don't need a list of schools that have.  But thanks, anyway.

+1

Most of this list is Liberal Arts colleges that are smaller than many of the high schools that the kids came from. 

So, if you're trying to be a national University, which MU is, and what MU is ranked as, then name recognition matters.  Successful Basketball (or Football) is one of the most effective ways to do this.

So while I agree that the list has some great schools, that are a different class of school than MU and really not comparable.

[Tugg Speedman]

The first post has been updated with the final 2012/2013 stats and some new comments based on the final numbers.

[mu_hilltopper]

Great post, AMU84 .. it may work better if you re-posted it down here on page 6 again.

[Tugg Speedman]

Great post, AMU84 .. it may work better if you re-posted it down here on page 6 again.

Here it is ...

On March 5 this post has been updated with the final 2012/2013 numbers

A subject that interests me ... attendance.  Here are some updated stats I pulled from previous posts

----------------------------

Here are the yearly numbers since MU moved into the Bradley Center

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/season_by_season_attendance

1989 - Moved to Bradley Center

          National
Year      Rank                Average
1989       23                   11,954
1990       21                   13,301
1991       18                   13,433
1992    not top 25           12,613
1993       20                   13,443
1994       14                   14,340
1995       25                   12,814
1996       16                   12,751
1997    not top 25           12,247
1998    not top 25           11,508    
1999    not top 25           12,145
2000    not top 25           9,971
2001    not top 25           11,360
2002       12                   12,680
2003       11                   15,553
2004       12                   15,291
2005       21                   11,965
2006       18                   13,998
2007       20                   15,345
2008       14                   16,239
2009       10                   16,200
2010       10                   15,617
2011       11                   15,586      
2012       13                   15,138
2013       ??                    15,033

According the MU media guide, here are the largest single game attendance records.

http://issuu.com/marquettesid/docs/mubb_guide_2011-12 (updated with last year's GU game)

1. 19,144    Syracuse       March 7, 2009         L 86-79
2. 19,093    Notre Dame   March 2, 2013         W 72-64
3. 19,091    Uconn           February 25, 2009    L 93-82
4. 19,087    Georgetown    March 3, 2012         W 83-69
5. 19,085    Georgetown    March 1, 2008         L 70-68
6. 19,074    Wisconsin      December 11, 2010   L 69-64
7. 19,041    Georgetown   January 31, 2009      W 94-82
8. 19,037    DePaul          January 26, 2008      W 79-71
9. 19,032    Syracuse       January 29, 2011      W 76-70
10. 19,021    Pittsburgh      March 3, 2007         W 75-71
11. 19,020    Wisconsin     December 9, 2006     L 70-66
12. 19,011    Pittsburgh     February 18, 2006    W 72-54
13. 19,007    Pittsburgh      February 18, 2006   W 84-82
14. 18,949  DePaul           January 24, 2009      W 91-82


http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2012/2012+ncaa+mens+basketball+attendance


2011/2012 ... MU is the only non-football school that has been in the top 20 of national attendance for 11 straight years.

Rank School G Attendance Average
1. Kentucky 18 426,978 23,721
2. Syracuse 19 448,736 23,618
3. Louisville 20 430,052 21,503
4. North Carolina 18 362,867 20,159
5. Wisconsin 18 309,255 17,181
6. Creighton 16 266,632 16,665
7. Tennessee 19 314,321 16,543
8. Ohio St. 20 330,210 16,511
9. Indiana 19 312,770 16,462
10. Kansas 17 279,557 16,445
11. Memphis 20 324,670 16,234
12. BYU 16 246,777 15,424
13. Marquette 16 242,205 15,138
14. Illinois 18 269,739 14,986
15. Michigan St. 18 266,346 14,797
16. New Mexico 16 231,262 14,454
17. UNLV 19 266,469 14,025
18. Vanderbilt 18 246,561 13,698
19. Arizona 18 244,829 13,602
20. North Carolina St. 19 257,638 13,560
21. Purdue 17 226,504 13,324
22. Maryland 17 224,090 13,182
23. Arkansas 21 275,020 13,096
24. Iowa St. 18 234,266 13,015
25. Kansas St. 16 204,527 12,783
26. Connecticut 17 214,873 12,640


2012-2013 Attendance

Day   Date   Opponent   Attendence   Average
Sunday   11/11/2012   Colgate   13,065  
Monday   11/13/2012   SE Louisiana   12,587   12,826
Monday   11/26/2012   UMBC   12,679   12,777
Saturday   12/8/2012   UW   18,588   14,230
Saturday   12/15/2012   Savannah State   13,366   14,057
Saturday   12/22/2012   LSU   14,309   14,099
Saturday   12/29/2012   UNC Central   13,600   14,028
Tuesday   1/1/2003   Uconn   14,159   14,044
Saturday   1/5/2013   Georgetown   15,433   14,198
Wednesday   1/16/2013   Seton Hall   13,842   14,163
Saturday   1/26/2013   Providence   15,140   14,252
Monday   1/28/2013   South Florida   15,136   14,325
Sunday   2/9/2013   DePaul   16,176   14,468
Saturday   2/16/2013   Pittsburgh   17,308        14,671  
Monday   2/25/2013   Syracuse   16,049         14,762  
Saturday   3/2/2013   Notre Dame  19,093        15,033

2011/2012 total attendance = 242,205
2012/2013 total attendance = 240,530
Difference                          = -1,675

2011/2012 BE Attendance    = 16,040 (144,356)
2012/2013 BE Attendance    = 15,815 (142,335)
Difference                         =             -2,020

Comments

Last year we had three BE games that drew over 18,000
Sat 1/14/12 Pitt     18,404
Sat 2/11/12 Cincy   18,815
Sat 3/3/12   GU       19,087

This year we had one BE game and Bucky over 18,000
Sat 12/8/12 UW  18,588
Sat 3/2/13   ND   19,093

The difference between last year and this year's attendance is this year we did not have that third 18,000+ game.  I thought it would be Syracuse but it "only" drew 16,049 ... maybe it because it was Monday and a 6 PM start.  Had that game drew 18,000+ we would have topped last year's attendance

[jsglow]

Thanks for all the hard work another.  Saturday's crowd was fantastic.  My hope is that the folks who were there for possibly the first or second time this year came away with a 'That was awesome; we've got to come more often next year' attitude.

Be interesting to see if MU decides to go back to the $99 season ticket plan.  Our season ticket base must be right around 12,500.  Be very nice to increase that by 250-500.

And for the record, I attended 12 of the 16 home games.  2 when we were away from the midwest on particular weekends, and 2 weeknight games that are frankly quite challenging on work nights from here in Chicago. Warriorchick beat me by one getting to 13 of 16.

[MUMountin]

2011/212 was the 11th year in a row that MU is the only non-football team in the top 20.

Rank School G Attendance Average
1. Kentucky 18 426,978 23,721
2. Syracuse 19 448,736 23,618
3. Louisville 20 430,052 21,503
4. North Carolina 18 362,867 20,159
5. Wisconsin 18 309,255 17,181
6. Creighton 16 266,632 16,665
7. Tennessee 19 314,321 16,543
8. Ohio St. 20 330,210 16,511
9. Indiana 19 312,770 16,462
10. Kansas 17 279,557 16,445
11. Memphis 20 324,670 16,234
12. BYU 16 246,777 15,424
13. Marquette 16 242,205 15,138
14. Illinois 18 269,739 14,986
15. Michigan St. 18 266,346 14,797
16. New Mexico 16 231,262 14,454
17. UNLV 19 266,469 14,025
18. Vanderbilt 18 246,561 13,698
19. Arizona 18 244,829 13,602
20. North Carolina St. 19 257,638 13,560
21. Purdue 17 226,504 13,324
22. Maryland 17 224,090 13,182
23. Arkansas 21 275,020 13,096
24. Iowa St. 18 234,266 13,015
25. Kansas St. 16 204,527 12,783
26. Connecticut 17 214,873 12,640

Creighton is #6--aren't they also a non-football school?

[We R Final Four]

If they aren't already, they should be giving those unsold seats (especially for the non-con cupcake games) to grade school and high school groups for next to nothing.  Loyalty to a team can start really young, and today's Boy Scout field trip participant could become tomorrow's freshman - or season-ticket holder.

Absolutely.  Almost every kid in my daughter's grade school has been to a Milwaukee Wave game.  Yes, the Milwaukee Wave. And because of it, guess what? they are all Milwaukee Wave fans.  All they had to do was give away a few tickets, now parents are asking one another when is the next game and who wants to go.  

Some of my earliest memories are watching Athletes in Action or similar in the Pepsi Challenge because the tickets were very cheap.  40 years later and I plan my calendar around game dates and times.  Worked for me.