Andy Katz Again: C7 Withdrawal Date, TV Partner, and 10th Member

[MisterJaylenBrownMU]

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/75294/3-point-shot-big-east-7-possible-candidates

"1. The departing Big East 7 are still negotiating their exit from the Big East and are far from finalizing a date to withdraw (although the exit is likely for the fall of 2014). The league still needs to lock in on a television partner (Fox, according to sources, the leader in the clubhouse) and a commissioner. But a number of sources have made valid points for additional schools the Big East 7 will go after, with the consensus being Butler and Xavier to get to nine. The 10th spot has interesting candidates, and while I have heard strong Richmond arguments for that spot, the Spiders may end up being more of an 11th or 12th member if the league decides to go that far. There is a definitely a push in one key corner of the seven to add Creighton because of the Bluejays passion for hoops, their facilities and following. I continue to hear conflicting opinions about whether or not distance matters in this new league. What isn't negotiable is the 7 want/need the schools to be all in for basketball. If that's the case then considering Gonzaga isn't out. This league has to be smart about its moves, and if Creighton is in the mix it would be a wise choice. "

[Avenue Commons]

My sense is this league goes to 12.

Why leave out 2 very viable programs as long as they bring to the table more than they take in terms of eating at the same trough?

[Coleman]

Wow, thanks Katz. Basically told us nothing new.

I agree with him though. Creighton or Gonzaga should be the no-brainer choices for the 10th member (Gonzaga if distance is not an issue, Creighton if the logistics for Gonzaga just aren't there).

You can consider SLU, Dayton, or Richmond if we go to 12.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Larry Williams for Commissioner!

[MUMountin]

My sense is this league goes to 12.

Why leave out 2 very viable programs as long as they bring to the table more than they take in terms of eating at the same trough?

A few possibilities:

10 teams leagues are easier in terms of scheduling--can play a true 18-game round robin.  12 ends up with an unbalanced schedule (see Pac-10 vs Pac-12).

While it seems to be consensus that Butler and Xavier are great fits on a variety of levels, the teams mentioned for spots 10-12 are not quite as ideal--either because they don't have the same level of sustained recent success as MU/GTown/Nova/Butler/X etc. (SLU, Dayton) or maybe don't fit in as well philosophically (VCU) or geographically (Creighton, SLU, Gonzaga?). 

It could be that there is some disagreement within the 7 about which direction to go beyond the C7+Butler+Xavier, and it might be easier to do this slower by only adding one more at this point. 

If there are concerns about SLU, Dayton, etc. not being as competitive right now, they might not want to "dilute" the basketball product.

Sticking at 10 also allows the conference some time to allow realignment to continue to pan out.  Maybe there is some hope that the ACC does get raided bringing ND back into the picture (although entirely unfounded, my guess is that ND may have us as their "backup" plan if ACC falls apart). 

And, ultimately, it probably depends on what the TV execs are telling them right now.  It might be that just going to 10 nets a similar (or greater) amount per school as going to 12--as stated above, the possible brands for slots 10-12 are not quite as strong as X/Butler, so expanding to 12 may only bring in marginally better $$ for the TV contract.  If that's the case, it might make sense to go slowly, and stick with 10 right now.  SLU, Dayton, Richmond, etc., will likely still be around later if they decide its worth it to expand.

[jficke13]

Creighton is really not far away, even for Providence it can't be much longer of a flight than it already is to ORD or MKE. It's a good bball program with good facilities, and it is a big player in non-bball sports. Adding them helps bring up the profile of the conference in a lot of different ways. I don't see any downside to Creighton at all.

[Norm]

After the C7, i would send out invites in the following order (assuming Gonzaga is off the table):

1. Xavier
2. Butler
3. Creighton
4. St. Louis
5. VCU

If Gonzaga and the C7 can work out the logistics, by all means put Gonzaga in the first 3 invites and bump everyone else down a notch, dropping VCU out. I've said this in multiple posts, but in addition to a good basketball conference, adding Creighton and St. Louis are key to making this a really good soccer conference. And if Gonzaga can't join, then adding VCU also strengthens the soccer portion.

[keefe]

assuming Gonzaga is off the table

If Gonzaga and the C7 can work out the logistics

From what I hear Zags want in for basketball but prefer another home out west for Olympic sports. That is where they are at. Also, they are involving BYU in discussions, fwiw.

[2012 Warrior]

I understand ND is not coming along, but scheduling would be real easy with them in a 13 team conference

18 games half home and home, 3 homes 3 aways

[mileskishnish72]

Norm, I agree with the teams and the order.

[DienerTime34]

Isn't the travel issue really something for Gonzaga to be concerned about rather than any team in the C7? If they're fine with it, invite them. Our teams would only have to travel out there once per year. Is it really that much farther than South Florida?

[keefe]

Isn't the travel issue really something for Gonzaga to be concerned about rather than any team in the C7? If they're fine with it, invite them. Our teams would only have to travel out there once per year. Is it really that much farther than South Florida?

I am told it comes down to finding a home for their Olympic sports. That is the tipping point for them. Saying yes for hoops is easy and the C7 want them in.

[CAGASS24]

Gonzaga Xavier and butler are the best three no doubt; adding Creighton and slu for 11 and 12 would be icing on the cake; 1-12, that's a hell of a conference

[Chili]

I am told it comes down to finding a home for their Olympic sports. That is the tipping point for them. Saying yes for hoops is easy and the C7 want them in.

I have heard the same thing. The issue is their men's basketball team is the only sport worth anything at Gonzaga. The rest of their sports stink and no one really wants them.

[Eight Legger]

Hey guys, UR fan and grad here. I think our fans are mostly interested in the opportunity to join the new league if invited – primarily to join Marquette and Georgetown and to remain with X and Butler... and in some part to stick it to VCU, which has quickly developed quite the holier-than-thou following. I don't think Seton Hall, Providence, St. John's or Depaul do much to get most people excited, but I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know there.

We've been wondering what the huge appeal to Creighton is, though. They've been to the NCAAs three times since 2005 and are 1-3 there. We've been three times since 2004 and are 2-3. Richmond is the #56 TV market, and Omaha is #76. I understand they have a nice arena and get a good turnout for games, but I'm a little curious to hear other perspectives on them.

I don't know where UR will fall on this list. Most UR fans, I suspect, would be happy with any outcome in which VCU is not somehow elevated "above us" in some way. We are already treated at times like a stepchild by local media in our own city because our coach doesn't have a 70s porn name, and the VCU fans are becoming pretty insufferable. We enjoyed beating them last month and look forward to sweeping them in March.

Would enjoy having you all as conference mates if the powers that be deem it appropriate!

[icheights]

I think you guy$ might all be forgetting one other rea$on to keep the league at 10 rather than 12.

[Aughnanure]

From what I hear Zags want in for basketball but prefer another home out west for Olympic sports. That is where they are at. Also, they are involving BYU in discussions, fwiw.

If BYU is involved, wouldn't that help solve a lot of those travel problems as they would have a perfect travel partner for the Olympic sports?

[Aughnanure]

I think you guy$ might all be forgetting one other rea$on to keep the league at 10 rather than 12.

I don't think anyone is forgetting money. But this isn't as simple as "there is a big pot of money and if we add more programs each serving will get smaller). The rumors are that TV wants it at 12 because it gives them more inventory. If TV wants 12 and is willing to increase the pot for it, then we are going to 12.

[tower912]

Hey guys, UR fan and grad here. I think our fans are mostly interested in the opportunity to join the new league if invited – primarily to join Marquette and Georgetown and to remain with X and Butler... and in some part to stick it to VCU, which has quickly developed quite the holier-than-thou following. I don't think Seton Hall, Providence, St. John's or Depaul do much to get most people excited, but I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know there.

We've been wondering what the huge appeal to Creighton is, though. They've been to the NCAAs three times since 2005 and are 1-3 there. We've been three times since 2004 and are 2-3. Richmond is the #56 TV market, and Omaha is #76. I understand they have a nice arena and get a good turnout for games, but I'm a little curious to hear other perspectives on them.

I don't know where UR will fall on this list. Most UR fans, I suspect, would be happy with any outcome in which VCU is not somehow elevated "above us" in some way. We are already treated at times like a stepchild by local media in our own city because our coach doesn't have a 70s porn name, and the VCU fans are becoming pretty insufferable. We enjoyed beating them last month and look forward to sweeping them in March.

Would enjoy having you all as conference mates if the powers that be deem it appropriate!

Richmond is a fairly recent addition to the list of names being tossed around.    So I am not sure that there is a strong concensus here about the Spiders.    Also, because the news about how this is all going to play out has slowed to a trickle, the energy level about it has also ebbed.    

[Norm]

Hey guys, UR fan and grad here. I think our fans are mostly interested in the opportunity to join the new league if invited – primarily to join Marquette and Georgetown and to remain with X and Butler... and in some part to stick it to VCU, which has quickly developed quite the holier-than-thou following. I don't think Seton Hall, Providence, St. John's or Depaul do much to get most people excited, but I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know there.

We've been wondering what the huge appeal to Creighton is, though. They've been to the NCAAs three times since 2005 and are 1-3 there. We've been three times since 2004 and are 2-3. Richmond is the #56 TV market, and Omaha is #76. I understand they have a nice arena and get a good turnout for games, but I'm a little curious to hear other perspectives on them.

I don't know where UR will fall on this list. Most UR fans, I suspect, would be happy with any outcome in which VCU is not somehow elevated "above us" in some way. We are already treated at times like a stepchild by local media in our own city because our coach doesn't have a 70s porn name, and the VCU fans are becoming pretty insufferable. We enjoyed beating them last month and look forward to sweeping them in March.

Would enjoy having you all as conference mates if the powers that be deem it appropriate!

Creighton has a really loyal fans base that really supports their team - #6 in NCAA attendance last year. Also, they made the Final four in men's soccer the past year and have a good tradition in that sport.

[icheights]

I don't think anyone is forgetting money. But this isn't as simple as "there is a big pot of money and if we add more programs each serving will get smaller). The rumors are that TV wants it at 12 because it gives them more inventory. If TV wants 12 and is willing to increase the pot for it, then we are going to 12.

If we are letting Fox dictate the dynamics of the conference we are in trouble.

It is as simple as less teams added, more money in the pot. Especially when we talk about less teams with high exit fees added the more money in the pot.

[Aughnanure]

If we are letting Fox dictate the dynamics of the conference we are in trouble.

It is as simple as less teams added, more money in the pot. Especially when we talk about less teams with high exit fees added the more money in the pot.

No it's not. Not when you don't know what the pot is or how big it is. Basically, Fox may be willing to pay MORE for the additional teams, not less per team. Of course if adding additional team meant less per team we would not add them. But that's NOT what's supposedly happening/being rumored.

Yes it's a sellers market right now, but that doesn't mean we don't consult with who is going to pay us more than a half a billion for decade+ deal.  Being able to consult with Fox on this is an advantage. Doesn't mean we do whatever they want, but they have expertise in the marketplace and that's valuable for deciding what schools, and how many, should be added.

[GOO]

I'd suspect that Gonzaga and BYU additions would add to the $ pot.  Enough to make the logistics and travel costs worth it?  
If both wanted in, it would be hard to turn them down along with Xavier and Butler (and one other of SLU, VCU, Richmond, Creighton) to get to 12.

If we do 10 or go without Gonzaga, maybe we can have a scheduling agreement with Gonzaga for out of conference games with our TV partner.

Is having an East to West coast conference worth having a Gonzaga and maybe a BYU in the mix?  I think it is worth it since most teams are flying anyway.  The time zone difference creates some travel issues and students miss an extra day of class more than having closer teams.

Thinking about it.  If we go to 10 or 11, why not try scheduling a bunch of home and homes with Gonzaga as out of conference and see how it goes for a season or two, and if it is working out, make it official and have them join.

[MUMountin]

Creighton is really not far away, even for Providence it can't be much longer of a flight than it already is to ORD or MKE. It's a good bball program with good facilities, and it is a big player in non-bball sports. Adding them helps bring up the profile of the conference in a lot of different ways. I don't see any downside to Creighton at all.

Ultimately, I agree with you.  However, I think that there may be more concern about this from the East Coast schools perspective--both from a geographic and cultural standpoint.  Creighton makes great sense from MU's viewpoint, as it moves the geographic center of the conference closer to us, and makes us that much more relevant--very easy to create good rivalry between us.  And, culturally, there are similar ties between Milwaukee and Omaha (not to mention the Wisconsin province Jesuit connection).

For the east coast schools, and especially G'town, I can see why they might prefer a school like Richmond (or even Dayton, maybe) to Creighton--they would keep the focus of the conference closer to the midatlantic region, as opposed to stretching deeper into those dreaded flyover states.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

From what I hear Zags want in for basketball but prefer another home out west for Olympic sports. That is where they are at. Also, they are involving BYU in discussions, fwiw.

Is that what you hear?  Hertz dialed in?

Quite a difference from what you said not long ago.  "Gonzaga BB is in. Period."