Looney Offer

[The Equalizer]

Sacre, Pargo, Daye, Turiaff.
Morrison could have been 5.
There are also two Zags in the NBADL, and one Warrior (Jerel).

RE: Tokoto, it is still my hope that UNC recruits over him, limits his playing time, and he comes back to Milwaukee to shine.
Just peeped his numbers though: 10.6 minutes per game, 52.9% FG, but 8-22 from the FT (yikes).

If we want to compete at UNC's level, I don't think we should take transfers that couldn't crack the rotation there. 

I would rather take a chance on an "under the radar" player that at least has a chance at becoming an elite level player than one we already know isn't there.

If he wants to come home to Milwaukee, let him play at UWM.

[MU82]

A few points:

1. When one of our guys has a good game in the NBA, we get excited and post about it here. For Duke, Kentucky and UNC, it's "ho-hum, another great game by one of our guys." In recent years, Kentucky has sent its entire starting lineup into the NBA. We are happy (and rightly so) when one of our guys gets drafted at all. Those places are basketball factories; Marquette is not, for better or worse. As for the argument that we would be a basketball factory if more elite players came here, well sure. But they don't -- perhaps in part because they don't see us as a basketball factory.

2. Whether UW or MU has been a better program since 2000 is irrelevant. All that matters is now. Marquette would seem to be trending on more of an upward path, both in recruiting and in recent results against UW. I'd argue for MU, but of course I'm a little biased.

3. Some high school kids either have no preference toward staying close to home or actually want to get away from home and try something new. I'm an East Coast kid who was accepted at five schools. Four were in the East, the other was Marquette. My brothers all went to eastern schools. When it came time for my choice, I wanted to do something different, so I chose Marquette -- sight unseen and not knowing a single person West of Philadelphia. I wasn't quite an elite-level athlete (though I was on some good intramural teams!!), but the thought is the same.

[Goose]

I trust 4ver for all of the obvious reasons. In addition, there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to go away to school. Many parents mandate that their kids go away to experience life. The kid has every option in the world and hope he makes his dreams come true.

[TVDirector]

saw Looney at a game a month or so back-
sat in the first row behind the bench, where I am recruit/visitors are placed for game observation.

I've seen many there over the years, but few as disinterested in what was transpiring on the floor in front of him.
he paid a great deal of attention to his phone (teenager, of course), smirked a few times at what was on the jumbotron above and was annoyed by the wee lil' ones next to him being small children doing small children stuff. 

but mostly stoically sat- texted- ate popcorn.

perhaps because it was a stinker of a game?
but he did not seem impressed.
imo

would love to have him here- but unless he's the lowest of all low key personalities out there, he did not appear exciting one iota...

[Gato78]

Not an indicator by any stretch. I sit near recruit seats and every recruit tries to be too cool to be interested. I am telling you, recruit indifference at games means absolutely nothing.

saw Looney at a game a month or so back-
sat in the first row behind the bench, where I am recruit/visitors are placed for game observation.

I've seen many there over the years, but few as disinterested in what was transpiring on the floor in front of him.
he paid a great deal of attention to his phone (teenager, of course), smirked a few times at what was on the jumbotron above and was annoyed by the wee lil' ones next to him being small children doing small children stuff.  

but mostly stoically sat- texted- ate popcorn.

perhaps because it was a stinker of a game?
but he did not seem impressed.
imo

would love to have him here- but unless he's the lowest of all low key personalities out there, he did not appear exciting one iota...

[BCHoopster]

As much as I would like a player like Looney, more importantly, I think MU will need a big man to replace Gardner, that should be more on the radar.  I know about Stone, but
he is the following year.  Lost Emblid, so MU needs someone?  Any ideas?

[Goose]

Would not dismiss a recruit's interest in MU over his attitude or excitement level at game. Plenty of games I am disinterested and looking forward to halftime to socialize and I am paying money to be there.

[karavotsos]

Everything is arbitrary.  Since 2000, the last decade, same result.  Last 15 years, same result.  Last 20 years, same result.  Now, go to last 40 years, result changes.

Or go last 5 years, since Buzz got here and attempt to look forward.  I think that's what you would have to do to look at the state of the program.  I would say as long as Buzz stays our program has a much higher ceiling than UW and about the same floor.  Bo is essentially a mid-major coach in a major conference. The trend of the stats is changing and will continue to change.  Whether you go 10, 13, 15, or 20 years into the past, you will not see that.  Because you are essentially looking at UW's success from the end of the Dick Bennett era and the beginning of the Bo Ryan era.  I would say a lot has changed for the positive at MU since that time, and UW has pretty much stayed the same. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Or go last 5 years, since Buzz got here and attempt to look forward.  I think that's what you would have to do to look at the state of the program.  I would say as long as Buzz stays our program has a much higher ceiling than UW and about the same floor.  Bo is essentially a mid-major coach in a major conference. The trend of the stats is changing and will continue to change.  Whether you go 10, 13, 15, or 20 years into the past, you will not see that.  Because you are essentially looking at UW's success from the end of the Dick Bennett era and the beginning of the Bo Ryan era.  I would say a lot has changed for the positive at MU since that time, and UW has pretty much stayed the same. 

As far as the trajectory, I'm done saying UW-madison's trajectory is flat.  I hear that EVERY single year and EVERY single year they finish in the top 3 or 4 in the conference.

Use the last 5 years. 
UW-madison has more regular season wins than us 125 to 120
UW-Madison won a conference title in that time, we didn't
Worst conference finish 4th for UW-madison....tied for 9th for MU
NCAA appearances tied with 5
NCAA wins goes to UW-madison  8 vs MU's 6

The data is the data.  We've been really good, they've just been a step ahead.  I hope it changes, believe me.  I'm just not going to underestimate them because they keep pulling it off year after year after year. 

[MerrittsMustache]

As far as the trajectory, I'm done saying UW-madison's trajectory is flat.  I hear that EVERY single year and EVERY single year they finish in the top 3 or 4 in the conference.

Use the last 5 years. 
UW-madison has more regular season wins than us 125 to 120
UW-Madison won a conference title in that time, we didn't
Worst conference finish 4th for UW-madison....tied for 9th for MU
NCAA appearances tied with 5
NCAA wins goes to UW-madison  8 vs MU's 6

The data is the data.  We've been really good, they've just been a step ahead.  I hope it changes, believe me.  I'm just not going to underestimate them because they keep pulling it off year after year after year. 

If you use the actual 4+ seasons that Buzz has been the head coach...

Total wins: MU 109, Wisc 108
NCAA appearances: 4 each
NCAA wins (average seed of win): Wisc 6 (8.8), MU 5 (8.0)
Avg NCAA seed: MU 6.5, Wisc 6.0
Sweet 16s: 2 each
Head to Head: MU 3, Wisc 2
Average conf finish (percentile): MU - top 29% (5.25/18) , Wisc - top 34% (3.75/11)
Avg Conf RPI: Big East - 2.5, Big 10 - 2.5

Hard to look at those numbers and consider either program to be "a step ahead."

[ATWizJr]

If we want to compete at UNC's level, I don't think we should take transfers that couldn't crack the rotation there. 

I would rather take a chance on an "under the radar" player that at least has a chance at becoming an elite level player than one we already know isn't there.

If he wants to come home to Milwaukee, let him play at UWM.

did you feel that way about Wilson when he chose to return home?

[Goose]

If Tokoto wanted to transfer you jump at like we did with Wilson. We very well might be local kids second option and anyone with a lot of stars next to their name is welcome to come back home IMO. In some cases a year away from home might best thing.

[JD]

As far as the trajectory, I'm done saying UW-madison's trajectory is flat.  I hear that EVERY single year and EVERY single year they finish in the top 3 or 4 in the conference.

Use the last 5 years.  
UW-madison has more regular season wins than us 125 to 120
UW-Madison won a conference title in that time, we didn't
Worst conference finish 4th for UW-madison....tied for 9th for MU
NCAA appearances tied with 5
NCAA wins goes to UW-madison  8 vs MU's 6

The data is the data.  We've been really good, they've just been a step ahead.  I hope it changes, believe me.  I'm just not going to underestimate them because they keep pulling it off year after year after year.  

Why don't you use NBA players in your arguement as well..

[brewcity77]

Why don't you use NBA players in your arguement as well..

Probably because we're talking about success at the college level.

[JD]

Probably because we're talking about success at the college level.

So success at the college level doesn't translate to getting players to the next level?  Dearly noted.

[brewcity77]

So success at the college level doesn't translate to getting players to the next level?  Dearly noted.

I think you meant "duly noted". And no, not necessarily.

Adam Morrison, Scottie Reynolds, and Michael Beasley were all fantastic college players that had only marginal success at the next level. All of them were All-Americans. There are countless other all-Conference players that are collegiate superstars that never succeed at the next level. Alando Tucker, Jordan Taylor, Jon Leuer, and Marcus Landry were all great college players that never did great at the next level.

Sometimes guys are surprisingly better at the next level than they are in college. Wes Matthews is a great example as he was usually the third or fourth option at Marquette but has become one of the best players in Portland while Greg Stiemsma was never a great player for Wisconsin but has found a niche in the NBA.

[Groin_pull]

As far as the trajectory, I'm done saying UW-madison's trajectory is flat.  I hear that EVERY single year and EVERY single year they finish in the top 3 or 4 in the conference.

Use the last 5 years. 
UW-madison has more regular season wins than us 125 to 120
UW-Madison won a conference title in that time, we didn't
Worst conference finish 4th for UW-madison....tied for 9th for MU
NCAA appearances tied with 5
NCAA wins goes to UW-madison  8 vs MU's 6


The data is the data.  We've been really good, they've just been a step ahead.  I hope it changes, believe me.  I'm just not going to underestimate them because they keep pulling it off year after year after year. 

I'm with you. I hate UW-Madison, but every year they deliver results. They're like a bad rash...just can't get rid of them.

[jsglow]

If you use the actual 4+ seasons that Buzz has been the head coach...

Total wins: MU 109, Wisc 108
NCAA appearances: 4 each
NCAA wins (average seed of win): Wisc 6 (8.8), MU 5 (8.0)
Avg NCAA seed: MU 6.5, Wisc 6.0
Sweet 16s: 2 each
Head to Head: MU 3, Wisc 2
Average conf finish (percentile): MU - top 29% (5.25/18) , Wisc - top 34% (3.75/11)
Avg Conf RPI: Big East - 2.5, Big 10 - 2.5

Hard to look at those numbers and consider either program to be "a step ahead."

Seems like one could throw a blanket over both of the programs and get a pick 'em.  I guess that's why our annual rivalry game is really a big deal these days.  All good.

[MUSF]

If we want to compete at UNC's level, I don't think we should take transfers that couldn't crack the rotation there. 

I would rather take a chance on an "under the radar" player that at least has a chance at becoming an elite level player than one we already know isn't there.

If he wants to come home to Milwaukee, let him play at UWM.

This is a ridiculous post on many levels.

[Lennys Tap]

I think you meant "duly noted". And no, not necessarily.



Sometimes guys are surprisingly better at the next level than they are in college. Wes Matthews is a great example as he was usually the third or fourth option at Marquette but has become one of the best players in Portland while Greg Stiemsma was never a great player for Wisconsin but has found a niche in the NBA.

Wesley was never better than the third option his first 3 years under TC. His senior year Buzz "took the chains off of him" (Wesley's own words) and made him the co-number one option. It wasn't quite enough to get him drafted, but his senior year gave him a look and he seized the opportunity.

[MerrittsMustache]

If we want to compete at UNC's level, I don't think we should take transfers that couldn't crack the rotation there. 

I would rather take a chance on an "under the radar" player that at least has a chance at becoming an elite level player than one we already know isn't there.

If he wants to come home to Milwaukee, let him play at UWM.

Tyler Zeller averaged under 8 minutes per game as a freshman at UNC. Think he would have look OK in a Marquette uni despite that?

[🏀]

Tyler Zeller averaged under 8 minutes per game as a freshman at UNC. Think he would have look OK in a Marquette uni despite that?

Of course not.

See example Blue, Vander.

[Tugg Speedman]

Of course not.

See example Blue, Vander.

I will answer this seriously ...

The difference is Zeller and Blue underperformed their Freshman year.  Tokoto is about the lowest rated recruit at UNC.  Everyone else was higher rated and everyone else (or nine others to be exact) are getting more minutes. 

This might not change that much in coming years.

[MUSF]

I will answer this seriously ...

The difference is Zeller and Blue underperformed their Freshman year.  Tokoto is about the lowest rated recruit at UNC.  Everyone else was higher rated and everyone else (or nine others to be exact) are getting more minutes. 

This might not change that much in coming years.

I don't think you can really say Blue and Zeller "underperformed".

To say they underperformed means there is a certain base level of performance that they failed to meet. What level of performance are you using as a standard? High School? Expectations? Whose expectations? Yours? The coaching staff?

[karavotsos]

Why don't you use NBA players in your arguement as well..

One of UW's NBA players just got traded for three players and a #1 draft pick.  No MU player has ever been traded for so much.