Buzz on postgame when Davante went down to the floor hard on an obvious missed

[injuryBug]

I don't feel like watching the game again but does anyone remember when Gardner got fouled and they gave the guy his first foul instead of fouling the other guy out when the guy with no fouls didn't even touch him. I thought that was a cheap call.

and 33 was in the game to block Vander's layup just minutes later.  Make the correct call and we have antra 2 points

[ChicosBailBonds]

"The refs didn't cost us the game" is a big stinking pile of coach speak. Of course officials can cost a team a game--just like the other plays in the game. If you ever played a sport, at any level, and you got jobbed by a call, there are two givens: 1. you will never forget the play and the call; and, 2. you will never say the refs cannot cost us a game.

Yes, of course it does, but....

Problem with that is fans automatically conclude the best possible outcome would have happened, and no one knows if it would have.  Was DG fouled on that play...yes.  Would he have made his FT's?  We don't know.  Too much focus on one play or one foul when it is a 40 minute game (45 in this case), where fouls are missed all game long.

The other problem is that fans tend to notice that their team got "jobbed" but almost universally don't find a foul on the other side to be worthy of "jobbed" caliber even though there are plenty of bad calls all the way around.  Ever notice it's always "we got jobbed" and never "we got jobbed but they did too".

Make more than 13 points in a half, we win.  Shoot better than 32% from the field, we win.  Shoot better than 67.7% from the stripe, we win. 

We got called for 24 fouls.  UC for 27.  We had our chances, we started out slow again, we need to get over that and not let any one call dictate an outcome.

[AirPunches]

Bad officiating goes hand in hand with close games. Always 50-50 calls. Take a look at the butler game for example. Maybe it's just me but I thought jones pushed off the big guy at the end to get the steal and then hit the game winner.

Refs didn't cost MU this game. MU didn't stop the one guy that everyone knew was going to take the last shot. In a way, it reminds me of that Washington game in the tourney except where MU blew the big lead. You knew Pondexter was going to get the ball and get a high percentage shot just like Kilpatrick did.

[tower912]

That was the only really blatantly bad call that went against MU.   There were a lot of 50-50 calls that went against MU (Jamil fouling out), but that is to be expected in a road game and there is no point in getting upset about it.    If MU had hit its free throws and/or been able to make anything in the first half, MU wins.   It WAS a terrible call, but that stuff happens. 

[bilsu]

I thought the refs allowed Cincy to continuously push MU in the back, when Cucny was dominating the offensive boards at the start of the game. The game got called a little closer after the double technical. One of the plays that sticks in my mind that had nothing to do with refs was when MU first got the game down to 7 Lockett was breaking to his basket all by himself for what looked like it would be a sure basket, but the pass to him hit the rim and never got to him. Ending up being a 3 pointer on the other end.

[MU82]

Yes, of course it does, but....

Problem with that is fans automatically conclude the best possible outcome would have happened, and no one knows if it would have.  Was DG fouled on that play...yes.  Would he have made his FT's?  We don't know.  Too much focus on one play or one foul when it is a 40 minute game (45 in this case), where fouls are missed all game long.

The other problem is that fans tend to notice that their team got "jobbed" but almost universally don't find a foul on the other side to be worthy of "jobbed" caliber even though there are plenty of bad calls all the way around.  Ever notice it's always "we got jobbed" and never "we got jobbed but they did too".

Make more than 13 points in a half, we win.  Shoot better than 32% from the field, we win.  Shoot better than 67.7% from the stripe, we win. 

We got called for 24 fouls.  UC for 27.  We had our chances, we started out slow again, we need to get over that and not let any one call dictate an outcome.

Excellent point, Chicos.

There was one first-half play in particular where Cincy got totally jobbed. Cincy was on offense. Jamil blatantly, obviously shoved Jackson, who then collided with Derrick. Jackson was called for setting a moving screen. Jackson and Cronin objected to no avail (of course). It was Jackson's third foul and he eventually fouled out; he was limited to 16 minutes and was one of three Cincy bigs in foul trouble throughout.

Just another example of how it's silly and loser-ish to focus on one call in any game.

[Gato78]

That is like saying that Kilpatrick's game winner wasn't really the game winner because there were so many other shots that went in during the game. A stinking pile of coach speak. End of game situations determine winners and losers and officials are a part of that equation. The officials blown call under that microscope is as big as a missed free throw or a made three at the buzzer. Bad calls can determine outcomes.

[MU82]

That is like saying that Kilpatrick's game winner wasn't really the game winner because there were so many other shots that went in during the game. A stinking pile of coach speak. End of game situations determine winners and losers and officials are a part of that equation. The officials blown call under that microscope is as big as a missed free throw or a made three at the buzzer. Bad calls can determine outcomes.

OK, let's say that was the worst call in the history of basketball. We still survived it to tie the game. We still had the outcome in our own control. But then, in crunch time, we couldn't stop their guy -- all of a sudden, we step aside and let him get the ball after denying him for most of the second half, then we let him waltz right into the lane.

STOP BLAMING THINGS THAT THE PLAYERS AND COACHES CAN'T CONTROL AND WORRY ABOUT THE THINGS THAT CAN BE CONTROLLED.

Only losers blame the refs.

[Gato78]

So I guess you are calling me a loser because I was making the point that officials blown calls can be just as important as made or missed shots. Either you are one POd dude or you have a serious problem with reading comprehension. My guess is you would have hated Al McGuire, see, Speech in Baton Rouge, 1977 about officials and back room NCAA deals.

STOP BLAMING THINGS THAT THE PLAYERS AND COACHES CAN'T CONTROL AND WORRY ABOUT THE THINGS THAT CAN BE CONTROLLED.

Only losers blame the refs.

[4everwarriors]

So I guess you are calling me a loser because I was making the point that officials blown calls can be just as important as made or missed shots. Either you are one POd dude or you have a serious problem with reading comprehension. My guess is you would have hated Al McGuire, see, Speech in Baton Rouge, 1977 about officials and back room NCAA deals.

Just as a point of clarity, that speech, delivered by Al, was in Oklahoma City after the Warriors defeated a pesky Kansas State team.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Look I agree that the team could have played a lot better and refs all make bad calls but
Why have three refs when all they come up with the theory that a 3pound ball knocked down a 290lb player?

[Lennys Tap]

That is like saying that Kilpatrick's game winner wasn't really the game winner because there were so many other shots that went in during the game. A stinking pile of coach speak. End of game situations determine winners and losers and officials are a part of that equation. The officials blown call under that microscope is as big as a missed free throw or a made three at the buzzer. Bad calls can determine outcomes.

Perfectly stated. To say, for example, that the refs who gave Seattle a game winning touchdown on what was an obvious game ending interception didn't decide the outcome of that game is total BS.

No team has ever played the perfect, mistake free game. So you can always look backwards. But when games come down to the last possession, players, coaches and/or officials can decide the outcome.

[MU82]

I'm going to admit right now that I shouldn't have used the word "loser." It wasn't nice, it didn't advance the discussion and it was dopey on my part.

But I still maintain that refs rarely, rarely, rarely "cost" a team a game. They are just one of the many variables that influence outcomes of games. It wasn't the refs who went 0-for-9 from 3-point land to put MU in a first-half hole and it wasn't the refs who then made some treys in the second half to get us back into the game.

Fixating on the refs solves nothing. And, as other posters have said, we don't seem to fixate on the refs when we get the calls. Bad calls and good calls come and go every single game. Stop Kilpatrick and we have a chance to beat Cincy. Hit a 3 at the regulation buzzer against UConn and we have a chance to win that game. Overcome a defensive lapse at the end of regulation by playing well against Pitt in OT and we have a chance to win that game. There were good and bad calls in crunch time in each of those games, but ultimately the players and coaches decide them. In the latter two instances, Marquette took control and won; against Cincy, Marquette couldn't take control and lost.

That's all I'm saying. I shouldn't have stooped to name-calling and I won't do so again.

[Gato78]

My bad. A John Blutarsky moment.

Just as a point of clarity, that speech, delivered by Al, was in Oklahoma City after the Warriors defeated a pesky Kansas State team.

[tower912]

There have been games where I have felt poor officiating was a major contributing factor to the outcome.   Last night wasn't one of them.   Yup, the call that sent Gardner to the floor was really bad.     IMO, it wasn't the deciding factor.  MU's play in the first half was.   

[WarriorHal]

...We had our chances, we started out slow again, we need to get over that...

Start Gardner and J. Wilson to generate some offense at the beginning of games. Otule and Anderson should come off the bench to give those guys a breather when needed. And earlier, more frequent appearances by Steve Taylor would help the offense, too.

[Marqus Howard]

Start Gardner and J. Wilson to generate some offense at the beginning of games. Otule and Anderson should come off the bench to give those guys a breather when needed. And earlier, more frequent appearances by Steve Taylor would help the offense, too.

I agree that Jamil should start, but Otule will start as long as he's here. He gives us a much better chance to win the tip.

[MU82]

I agree that Jamil should start, but Otule will start as long as he's here. He gives us a much better chance to win the tip.

Yeah ... Buzz would have to let Lockett take the opening tip if DG starts!

[Dr. Blackheart]

The referee performance is one of many facets of the game.  Offense, defense, coaching, crowd, bench, shooting, defending, situational strategy, etc.  To compartmentalize it and say just one facet is to blame is naive...at the same time to ignore one facet for criticism is also naive.  

In the past , we have had threads on one facet...for the sake of a strategy discussion or other puts and takes. Fair game. We also dwell on officiating.  These are paid professionals like coaches who influence games.  They could blow their whistle every time down the floor in reality on some technicality or not.  So, they are also fair game.  

Frankly, yesterday's game was not an easy game to call.  It was a slugfest.  I thought they did a job of controlling the physicality of the game....yet they clearly made some really bad calls on both sides.  The Bearcat fans were just as upset...and claimed the Xavier game bias follows them.  Welcome to fan hood.

For Marquette, the Gardner non-call was plain horrible, and worse he on two occasions took two hard hits that could have caused injury.  The Jamil call was very questionable.  The bigger issue for me was during the time out after Jamil's call, Buzz was going after the officials pretty good...but he walked away three separate times from the official and the official kept following him...in fact he ended up in the middle of the MU huddle.  To me that is unprofessional and shows a ref looking for a fight. Buzz didn't back down and in fact got a couple of 50/50s calls right after. Refs with rabbit ears let the coaches, crowd and players get to them...and that is what we saw yesterday:  not a very confident crew on the big stage who kept going to the replay, prolonged coach huddles, and letting conversations linger too long.  

[MU82]

Late in the NFC title game, the Falcons were driving and were the beneficiaries of a very questionable call. The Atlanta receiver juggled the ball going down and it appeared the ball might have hit the ground before he had control. It was called a catch on the field but because video was inconclusive, the call was upheld, giving the Falcons a first down inside the red zone. Harbaugh was livid and I'm sure that every 49ers fan in America was howling. I thought it was an OK call, but I wasn't emotionally invested in the game.

Had the 49ers lost the game by 3, many of their fans would have blamed the refs. It didn't matter that their kicker missed a 38-yard field goal or that their receiver fumbled the ball inside the 1. All that they would have remembered was the horrible call.

But the 49ers were determined to not let a call beat them. They stopped the Falcons on first, second, third and fourth downs to win the game.

So what you had was a team believing it was victimized by a terrible call but nonetheless taking matters into its own hands and winning the game despite the call.

That's what I'm talking about. Control what you can. Make the plays. Win the game.