Maryland signs big man...

[Harrison]

will this help MU with Quintrell Thomas?  Seeing how it is only Maryland's first commitment it is not an issue with no more scholarships to offer and only time will tell.  A class of Shumpert, Williams, and Thomas continues to be my personal wet dream.
Unfortunately, history tells us it will prabably be Williams and two clowns we have never heard of before.

[bananahammock]

maryland is going after 3 of the bigs we are pursuing - thomas, ben-eze, sutton.  my preference (granted, i've never seen any of them play) would be ben-eze; he has the height we badly need!

[Harrison]

Height is over rated in the snese that height is only hieght.  Would you rather have Mike Kinsella or faisal abraham?  My recollection is that Fai at 6'7" is the schools 3rd or 4th all time shot clocker, additionally he was tough as nails and strong.  he could body and push out bigger guys.  Additionally, he was agreat leaper and most importantly couldd rebound out of his area.  Meaning he did not just get rebounds that came to him but had the athleticism to go get balls over others or away from his spot.  Give me two 6'8" guys that can do that all day long!!  That is part of oozes problem, Burkes too. they only get rebounds that hit them in the chest.   Evrything I read about Thomas speakes of his strenthg, leaping ability and toughness.  Those are the guys i want.  Mbakwe and Thomas on the baseline!!   

[77ncaachamps]

I agree with Harrison.

I'm seeing Crean recruiting a lot of "do everything" forwards: they're long, quick, and can defend multiple positions. Similar to Cuse and Cincy's frontlines.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A class of Shumpert, Williams, and Thomas continues to be my personal wet dream.
Unfortunately, history tells us it will prabably be Williams and two clowns we have never heard of before.

C'mon dude... the Wade class was awesome (ODB, WADE, Merrit) and the James class was great (James, Matthwes, McSteal)...

I don't think that we are going to just get williams and 2 clowns. I admit that MU has reached on some recruits, but there is a lot of potential in last years frosh. and this years frosh as well.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

will this help MU with Quintrell Thomas?  Seeing how it is only Maryland's first commitment it is not an issue with no more scholarships to offer and only time will tell.  A class of Shumpert, Williams, and Thomas continues to be my personal wet dream.
Unfortunately, history tells us it will prabably be Williams and two clowns we have never heard of before.

A lot of people felt Cubillan was a clown. That was probably down to the fact that 95% of MU fans on these boards had never seen him play. In fact, 95% of fans on these boards never see any recruits play prior to entering MU so they probably feel most of them are clowns.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I love Cubillan -- he and McNeal are my two favorite returners --  but he's not a marquee recruit. The way it's shaping up, he may never start a game for MU. He's a lot like Karon Bradley.

[Cooby Snacks]

Cubillan is a LOT better than Karon Bradley.

[NYWarrior]

Cubillan is a LOT better than Karon Bradley.

yes.  and he seems to understand/accept his role unlike mr bradley at MU

[Harrison]

2002 Mualum...I absolutely agree those two classes were good classes.  Unfortunately his 6 other classes have left ALOT!!! to be desired.  Jury is out on last years class...LAzar is good ...Cubes can catch and shoot...it remains to be seen what else he can do without the three amigos. 

Definite props to Crean on his two classes...one took us to the Final 4...unfortunately when ODB and then Wade left recruitng blunders produced 2 brutal seasons (records were not bad but we beat cupcakes and were outclassed by NCAA caliber teams).  Then he signed his second great class and we are in the NCAA's two years running.

I stand by my comments...any betting man would see a 75% failure rate and bet on failure.  The concern is what happens when the big 3 leave, is Crean restocking the shelves?  Big time question mark.  Espn thinks not giving our incoming class a ranking of 10 out of 16. 

2 for 8 aint great.

[NYWarrior]

I stand by my comments...any betting man would see a 75% failure rate and bet on failure.  The concern is what happens when the big 3 leave, is Crean restocking the shelves?  Big time question mark.  Espn thinks not giving our incoming class a ranking of 10 out of 16. 

2 for 8 aint great.

2 for 8 ain't great, but it also might not be so (you admit as much in evaluating Cuby and Lazar).  The 07 class should be helpful, but not great.  But TC did fill two key needs (shooting and a rebounder with potential).  The 08 and 09 classes are huge for MU given the veteran nature of the roster heading into those seasons.....MU will have PT available to talented kids, and it seems that Nick Williams is a keeper.  I'd expect TC to do just fine in 08 given the kids he's in with, and if he can land Wilson in 09, we wont have these threads much more.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

2002 Mualum...I absolutely agree those two classes were good classes.  Unfortunately his 6 other classes have left ALOT!!! to be desired.  Jury is out on last years class...LAzar is good ...Cubes can catch and shoot...it remains to be seen what else he can do without the three amigos. 

Definite props to Crean on his two classes...one took us to the Final 4...unfortunately when ODB and then Wade left recruitng blunders produced 2 brutal seasons (records were not bad but we beat cupcakes and were outclassed by NCAA caliber teams).  Then he signed his second great class and we are in the NCAA's two years running.

I stand by my comments...any betting man would see a 75% failure rate and bet on failure.  The concern is what happens when the big 3 leave, is Crean restocking the shelves?  Big time question mark.  Espn thinks not giving our incoming class a ranking of 10 out of 16. 

2 for 8 aint great.

I hear ya... and I don't think you are being totally unreasonable... but I just think that that there have been a few nice classes... and quite honestly, I think MU is still on the rise... so I expect the classes to get better.

I think this year's incoming class is pretty nice. Arguably the 2 best player(s) out of Wisconsin and Minnesota... I know that nationally this year's class might not have been ranked extremely high, but I'll take the top 2 players out of those states every year.

I hear what you are saying though... I guess my expectations are a little different. I'm looking for long term growth, and I would say MU is still climbing.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

I love Cubillan -- he and McNeal are my two favorite returners --  but he's not a marquee recruit. The way it's shaping up, he may never start a game for MU. He's a lot like Karon Bradley.

He may not have been a marquee recruit but he could turn into a marquee player for MU in the sense that his value to the team will be high over the next 3 years.

Back to the topic, was Cubillan a "clown"? Is any recruit that's not marquee a "clown"? And, how do we define marquee?

The last few classes it seems Crean has learned how to balance out the team between marquee players and role players. He always seems to have at least one clown because, let's face it, we need the lighter side of things from time to time.

[augoman]

Hate to weigh in on a negative but need to say; our last two classes garnered nothing higher than a 3 star, (versus uw w/ 2-4 stars and 2-3 stars each year) and we don't seem to be in on any 'marquee' players for '08.  Mbakwe is our highest rated (rivals 150) player, and he is 148 (versus uw's 2 in the top 100-again).  Noone over 6'7", noone w/ a rep for 'aggressive' boards.  I'm primed for some GOOD news here, fellas-  can someone give me some? 

[Cooby Snacks]

we don't seem to be in on any 'marquee' players for '08

Iman Shumpert much?

[herboturbo]

Hate to weigh in on a negative but need to say; our last two classes garnered nothing higher than a 3 star, (versus uw w/ 2-4 stars and 2-3 stars each year) and we don't seem to be in on any 'marquee' players for '08.  Mbakwe is our highest rated (rivals 150) player, and he is 148 (versus uw's 2 in the top 100-again).  Noone over 6'7", noone w/ a rep for 'aggressive' boards.  I'm primed for some GOOD news here, fellas-  can someone give me some? 

This whole post is just flat out wrong on every level.  First of all by services that rank 5th year seniors Heyward was ranked and Mbakwe is a RSCI top 100 player - who cares that one service (which might be the worst of all of them) ranked him 150, the collective ranked him a 4 star - and not to mention that he does have a rep for grabbing boards.   And as for 'marquee' players we have a good shot at our first McD AA in a quarter century.   This isn't even mentioning Cristopherson who is considered one of the top shooters in the class and was a top 100 prospect till he stopped playing AAU ball and then dropped off the lists

[Harrison]

"""This whole post is just flat out wrong on every level.  First of all by services that rank 5th year seniors Heyward was ranked and Mbakwe is a RSCI top 100 player - who cares that one service (which might be the worst of all of them) ranked him 150, the collective ranked him a 4 star - and not to mention that he does have a rep for grabbing boards. """"

Well...I think that post really misses the point on many levels as well....

First of all,  getting 1 top 100-150 type player a year in the Big East is simply a recipe for disaster.  Our competition, in Louisville, Uconn, Syracuse, WVU -with Huggy, Villanova, Georgetown, and Pittsburgh (and I am only naming the for sures)  will sign 2-3-4 top 100 players each and every year and will most likely scatter in a few McD's as well. 

Our recruiting the last two years has not been on par with the top half of the BE, in fact ESPN rated it 10 of 16.  The reason we have been competitive has been Steve Novak and the 3  amigos.  When those 3 leave we are in deep trouble.  This year's recruiting class and next are absolutely huge for the program.  The 3 amigos represent 3 of the 4 highest rated players Crean has ever signed at MU.  Accordingly,they have lifted the team after two woefully untalented seasons into two straight NCAA's.

I will absolutely agree that the recruitng as a whole has improved and that  the incoming class and the class before while not great are better than some of Crean's earlier classes, but that simply does not matter.   

Those two classes would  be fine and successful in C-USA, but while we signed those two classes the aforementioned schools have all signed 5-6-7 top 100 kids and almost all of them have signed multiple McD's all-americans. 
To compare these MU classes with previous MU classes is plain wrong, they must be compared to our competition.  Those schools and I will throw in ND, Depaul, now Cincy, have out recruited us the last two years as well.

Mu is in deep trouble in 2 years...we will have 2 more outstanding seasons led by our outstandingly talented highly rated guards but then we will face a huge talent deficiency if those 3 top 50 type talents are not replaced in kind. 
I hate to be the caster of doom and gloom, because I am going to enjoy the heck out of the next two seasons, but without 2-3 top 75 type players in the next two years year three will be ugly. 

[Big Papi]

"""This whole post is just flat out wrong on every level.  First of all by services that rank 5th year seniors Heyward was ranked and Mbakwe is a RSCI top 100 player - who cares that one service (which might be the worst of all of them) ranked him 150, the collective ranked him a 4 star - and not to mention that he does have a rep for grabbing boards. """"

Well...I think that post really misses the point on many levels as well....

First of all,  getting 1 top 100-150 type player a year in the Big East is simply a recipe for disaster.  Our competition, in Louisville, Uconn, Syracuse, WVU -with Huggy, Villanova, Georgetown, and Pittsburgh (and I am only naming the for sures)  will sign 2-3-4 top 100 players each and every year and will most likely scatter in a few McD's as well. 

Our recruiting the last two years has not been on par with the top half of the BE, in fact ESPN rated it 10 of 16.  The reason we have been competitive has been Steve Novak and the 3  amigos.  When those 3 leave we are in deep trouble.  This year's recruiting class and next are absolutely huge for the program.  The 3 amigos represent 3 of the 4 highest rated players Crean has ever signed at MU.  Accordingly,they have lifted the team after two woefully untalented seasons into two straight NCAA's.

I will absolutely agree that the recruitng as a whole has improved and that  the incoming class and the class before while not great are better than some of Crean's earlier classes, but that simply does not matter.   

Those two classes would  be fine and successful in C-USA, but while we signed those two classes the aforementioned schools have all signed 5-6-7 top 100 kids and almost all of them have signed multiple McD's all-americans. 
To compare these MU classes with previous MU classes is plain wrong, they must be compared to our competition.  Those schools and I will throw in ND, Depaul, now Cincy, have out recruited us the last two years as well.

Mu is in deep trouble in 2 years...we will have 2 more outstanding seasons led by our outstandingly talented highly rated guards but then we will face a huge talent deficiency if those 3 top 50 type talents are not replaced in kind. 
I hate to be the caster of doom and gloom, because I am going to enjoy the heck out of the next two seasons, but without 2-3 top 75 type players in the next two years year three will be ugly. 

WOW!  This post misses the point on so many levels, i don't even know where to start to rip it apart.  Thankfully I am going on vacation in a few hours and won't have the time to go paragraphs upon paragraphs on why this post is so off base but I will leave you with a few points to ponder.


First of all rankings are great and all but to rely on rankings without seeing the players for yourself and than bash those players is beyond idiotic.  We could have 3 studs out of freshmen class but you have already written them off without seeing them.  Thats just wrong. 

Second, UConn's great recruiting class of last year landed them where?  Success has to do with getting great players but it also has to do with team formation and team chemistry.

Third, you might not think Hayward and Cube are great players but I think they are very good four year players that every good team needs and wants.

Fourth, nice of you to not take into account that TC is in on Shumpert and Wilson.  Two players who we have a good chance at getting and blow away James, McNeal and Matthews in terms of rankings since it seems like that is all you care about.  You want top 50 talent, well we are in 2 top 30 talent in 08 and 09.

Fifth, I wouldn't rely on ESPN for any recruiting information.  my recommendation is for you to look at all the rankings out there and not just pick and choose the one that fits your agenda but again take rankings with a grain of salt.

Sixth, yes we were/are competitve because of Novak and James and McNeal and Matthews and than it will be hayward and Mbakwe and Williams and Shumpert and Wilson and........  Recruiting has been up and down but it is trending upward and we are in on a lot of great talent.  Some will come and some will not but I wouldn't say we are looking at doom and gloom with what we have coming in this year (Mbakwe, Hazel, CHristopherson), next year (N. Williams, maybe Shumpert, Thomas, Ben-Eze) or the year after (maybe J. Wilson).

The future looks bright beyond the next two years.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

"""This whole post is just flat out wrong on every level.  First of all by services that rank 5th year seniors Heyward was ranked and Mbakwe is a RSCI top 100 player - who cares that one service (which might be the worst of all of them) ranked him 150, the collective ranked him a 4 star - and not to mention that he does have a rep for grabbing boards. """"


I will absolutely agree that the recruitng as a whole has improved and that  the incoming class and the class before while not great are better than some of Crean's earlier classes, but that simply does not matter.   

I think it does matter... again, in the grand scheme of things, MU is still a rebuilding program that is on the rise. We are not Duke... MU is building better and better classes and putting them closer together. ALSO, getting Mr. Basketball Wisconsin and a top 2 or 3 player from MN every year should give MU enough talent (provided some solid role players are recruited as well).

Those two classes would  be fine and successful in C-USA, but while we signed those two classes the aforementioned schools have all signed 5-6-7 top 100 kids and almost all of them have signed multiple McD's all-americans. 
To compare these MU classes with previous MU classes is plain wrong, they must be compared to our competition.  Those schools and I will throw in ND, Depaul, now Cincy, have out recruited us the last two years as well.

You are just putting too much emphasize of specific numbers. I realize that talent wins, but do you think that anybody knows the difference between the #50 ranked kid and the #100 ranked kid? These are 18 year old kids... there are WAY too many variables in the way they are ranked to put this much faith in the numbers.


Mu is in deep trouble in 2 years...we will have 2 more outstanding seasons led by our outstandingly talented highly rated guards but then we will face a huge talent deficiency if those 3 top 50 type talents are not replaced in kind. 
I hate to be the caster of doom and gloom, because I am going to enjoy the heck out of the next two seasons, but without 2-3 top 75 type players in the next two years year three will be ugly. 

Wow. I mean wow. Re-read what you wrote. I understand that people have high hopes for the program... but now people are getting concerned over recruits for 3 years from now? I mean, c'mon. Relax. You said you were going to enjoy the next 2 seasons, so do so. You are worrying about things that the coaching staff probably doesn't even lose sleep over. Hayward might turn into something special or maybe Mbawke will... or maybe Christopherson will become the next Diener... who knows?

The point I guess is that there are WAY too many variables to worry about recruiting classes 2-3 years from now.

Rankings are fun, and they are fun to read about and banter about... but realistically I wouldn't get concerned too concerned about them.

[Harrison]

When did i say 2-3 years out on recruiting?... I am specifically referring to this years signees and next years  Also if you dont think the coaches are "worried" about it you are in la la land. that is why they "recruit" year around.  Any coach will tell you winning is 90% talent. 
Now you can stick your head in the sand all you want...I have been to scores of AAU tourneys but obviously not as many as the gurus.  But you are dead wrong rankings are huge!!  The six highest rated players Crean has signed have been Wade, Diener, Novak, and the 3 amigos.  Not if you want to rely on your unpolished diamond stuff feel free.  However, today's recruits for the most part are seen so very much that there is not a tremendous amount of mystery or questions on how good a kid is.
and i am happy for you that you think MU recruiting is getting better.  This is an absolute worl not a relativity matter nothing.  Bottom line MU was a poor team in C-USA when we only had 2-3 three top 100 kids after Wade left.  Then Crean signs 3 Top 50 kids...boom!  Zero since, meanwhile Syracuse 3 MCd's, Georgetown 3, Villanova, Louisville, etc. one awesome class after another.  Stick your head in the sand, But like 2004 and 2005, we will be sorely out talented when we lose those three.  If you honestly beleive Cubillan and Christopherson can replace any two of the 3 amigos in a year or two then you have very little knowledge of basketball.  Pittsburgh game without Jerel and when james went out...ring a bell?  Sorry charlie, but our last two classes are role players Lazar and Mbakwe might turn out as nice players but they are not the elite type players to compete at the top of the BE.  Syracuse, Uccon, Gergetown, Louisville and others will have 2-3-4 Mcd's on those squads.

[bma725]

The six highest rated players Crean has signed have been Wade, Diener, Novak, and the 3 amigos.

Merritt was ranked higher than Wade.  Dameon Mason was ranked higher than Wade.  Even Lazar Hayward was ranked higher than Wade by many people.

Hayward was 73rd in Rivals rankings and 78th in Hoopmasters.  The only reason he didn't get consensus top 100 is because so many of the people who do the ranking separate the post graduate players from the regular high schoolers.  Scout had him as a 4 star player and the 13th ranked shooting guard.  He would have been in the top 50-60 but they don't include 6th year players.  It's the same with Hoopscoop and Prepstars.  They both had him in the top 10 post graduate players but didn't include him in the top 100 because of his age.  Clark Francis when contacted came out and said that Hayward was a top 50 player.

[downtown85]

"""This whole post is just flat out wrong on every level.  First of all by services that rank 5th year seniors Heyward was ranked and Mbakwe is a RSCI top 100 player - who cares that one service (which might be the worst of all of them) ranked him 150, the collective ranked him a 4 star - and not to mention that he does have a rep for grabbing boards. """"

Well...I think that post really misses the point on many levels as well....

First of all,  getting 1 top 100-150 type player a year in the Big East is simply a recipe for disaster.  Our competition, in Louisville, Uconn, Syracuse, WVU -with Huggy, Villanova, Georgetown, and Pittsburgh (and I am only naming the for sures)  will sign 2-3-4 top 100 players each and every year and will most likely scatter in a few McD's as well. 

Our recruiting the last two years has not been on par with the top half of the BE, in fact ESPN rated it 10 of 16.  The reason we have been competitive has been Steve Novak and the 3  amigos.  When those 3 leave we are in deep trouble.  This year's recruiting class and next are absolutely huge for the program.  The 3 amigos represent 3 of the 4 highest rated players Crean has ever signed at MU.  Accordingly,they have lifted the team after two woefully untalented seasons into two straight NCAA's.

I will absolutely agree that the recruitng as a whole has improved and that  the incoming class and the class before while not great are better than some of Crean's earlier classes, but that simply does not matter.   

Those two classes would  be fine and successful in C-USA, but while we signed those two classes the aforementioned schools have all signed 5-6-7 top 100 kids and almost all of them have signed multiple McD's all-americans. 
To compare these MU classes with previous MU classes is plain wrong, they must be compared to our competition.  Those schools and I will throw in ND, Depaul, now Cincy, have out recruited us the last two years as well.

Mu is in deep trouble in 2 years...we will have 2 more outstanding seasons led by our outstandingly talented highly rated guards but then we will face a huge talent deficiency if those 3 top 50 type talents are not replaced in kind. 
I hate to be the caster of doom and gloom, because I am going to enjoy the heck out of the next two seasons, but without 2-3 top 75 type players in the next two years year three will be ugly. 

Thanks Harrison.  Good post.  In summary, MU needs to get some top talent over the next 2 years to replace the top talent that will be inevitably leaving.  I hope TC can do it.  Perhaps a good run into the NCAAs this year and a Big East championship will give MU and Crean just enough notoriety so top recruits want to come here but not so much as Crean gets an offer and accepts to coach at some bigger name school.

[Harrison]

Wade was a top 40 recruit by those in the know.  Bullseye had his as the #2 recruit in Illinois behind Darius Miles who went in the lottery out of HS.  Merritt was no  hwere nearly as highly ranked 75-100.  Mason was not as high either.  But if it is your intent to take the whole premise of the argumnet and base it on Wade's particular ranking than fine with you.  Bottom  line is the top 1/3 of te BE has recruited our socks off the last two years and if it continues we will be in trouble.   OK i will appease you, Mason was higher than Wade and Lazar was top50-75.   Ok good for you.....we have still gotten our socks recruited off by 5-6-7-8 other BE teams 4-5 of whome have signed multiple McD's and 5-6-7 Top 100 recruits. 

[romey]

Wade was a top 40 recruit by those in the know.  Bullseye had his as the #2 recruit in Illinois behind Darius Miles who went in the lottery out of HS.  Merritt was no  hwere nearly as highly ranked 75-100.  Mason was not as high either.  But if it is your intent to take the whole premise of the argumnet and base it on Wade's particular ranking than fine with you.  Bottom  line is the top 1/3 of te BE has recruited our socks off the last two years and if it continues we will be in trouble.   OK i will appease you, Mason was higher than Wade and Lazar was top50-75.   Ok good for you.....we have still gotten our socks recruited off by 5-6-7-8 other BE teams 4-5 of whome have signed multiple McD's and 5-6-7 Top 100 recruits.

By no means am I a recruiting guru - nearly all of my info on the top recruits comes from this site and a few others on line - but this does concern me.  While Marquette is better off than it was a couple years ago in this department, I have to remind myself at times to take off the rose colored glasses.  Harrison's post is kind of a reality check.  When the top recruiting classes are mention, we hear the same schools over and over again - it seems these teams just "reload" as we often hear.  While we may have solid players coming in, solid players and McDonald's All Americans are two different things.  I'm not saying that we can't continue to compete, but we do need these top 25 or 50 players to start giving MU serious consideration and we need to snag a couple of them soon.  The rest of the Big East isn't going to "nice-nice" with us just because we have basketball tradition.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

When did i say 2-3 years out on recruiting?... I am specifically referring to this years signees and next years  Also if you dont think the coaches are "worried" about it you are in la la land. that is why they "recruit" year around.  Any coach will tell you winning is 90% talent. 

In a previous post you said this:

"Mu is in deep trouble in 2 years...we will have 2 more outstanding seasons led by our outstandingly talented highly rated guards but then we will face a huge talent deficiency if those 3 top 50 type talents are not replaced in kind.
I hate to be the caster of doom and gloom, because I am going to enjoy the heck out of the next two seasons, but without 2-3 top 75 type players in the next two years year three will be ugly.  "

That's how I figured you were worried about the next 2 to 3 years of recruiting.

As far as my comment about the coaches not being worried... let me clarify. I'm sure the coaches are on top of all of this stuff and are well aware of the talent level they are recruiting. BUT, I also think the coaches understand that there are a TON of variables in recruiting (especially when you are talking about 2 or 3 years down the line). I doubt the coaches are losing sleep over reading the "rankings" put out by whatever recruiting service. They go see the players live, they meet the recruits, they meet their families, the kids visit campus. If MU and the recruit feel it's a good fit, well then the recruit signs. I don't think the coaching staff is really reading all of the recruiting rankings because at the end of the day they are just numbers. It doesn't mean a kid will do well at MU.

Yes, I understand that talent wins games. But, I also understand that if MU can keep landing solid recruits in the 100 range, develop their talents and have them play for 4 years... they are going to be pretty good year in and year out, regardless of what UCONN is doing.


EDIT:

Also, just to be clear, I do think the next 2 recruiting classes are important (every recruiting class is for that matter)... I'm just not sure I'm that nervous about it yet. I have faith that the coaches know what they are doing and they will continue to recruit the players they need to win in the big east.