Maryland signs big man...

[tower912]

Two years out, we will have Acker, Cubillan and Christopherson for guards, Mbakwe, Hazel, Saunders, Lazar for sure.   Nick Williams, more than likely.   A very nice base.   If we manage to pull some combination of Wilson,  Crittle, Schumpert , one of the Centers, we will be fine.  A lot of top notch recruits out there with MU on their short list.   We are getting good talent.  Not UNC or KU talent, but solid.  Assuming that TC stays, enough people stay healthy, and we can avoid wholesale transfers, we will stay competitive in the BE and a fixture in the tournament.   SOMEBODY has to be the first round upset, why not us?

[romey]

can somebody tell me how to "box" or quote another member's comments so I can separate them from my new posts?  I'm sure it's simple, but I'm confused!

I agree two years out we'll have Coobs, Christopher, Aker, Hayward,etc.  BUT, how does that compare to the top tier Big East teams (including us in that group)?  I'm just asking I don't know the rosters as well as many of you do, but does the talent on our roster stack up with those teams in two years?  I think that's the whole point isn't it?

I will also throw these two cents in.  More and more we're seeing teams with four year players making runs in the tourney because of the cohesiveness of their roster.  Many of the top 50 recruits are "one and done" or maybe two years.  If you have solid ballers who play all four years, that can make for a aformidible foe with a veteran roster.  I think we will see that this year and next becasue in my opinion, it is unlikely any of our grouip will leave early (with the possible exception of DJ).

[mu_hilltopper]

(Romey:  To quote someone's post, click on the "Quote" button at the top of each message.  It will populate the "Quick Reply" box at the bottom of the page with the quote in question.)

[romey]

(Romey:  To quote someone's post, click on the "Quote" button at the top of each message.  It will populate the "Quick Reply" box at the bottom of the page with the quote in question.)

Like this?

[4everwarriors]

Two years out, we will have Acker, Cubillan and Christopherson for guards, Mbakwe, Hazel, Saunders, Lazar for sure.   Nick Williams, more than likely.   A very nice base.   If we manage to pull some combination of Wilson,  Crittle, Schumpert , one of the Centers, we will be fine.  A lot of top notch recruits out there with MU on their short list.   We are getting good talent.  Not UNC or KU talent, but solid.  Assuming that TC stays, enough people stay healthy, and we can avoid wholesale transfers, we will stay competitive in the BE and a fixture in the tournament.   SOMEBODY has to be the first round upset, why not us?

Where's Crean going?

[ChicosBailBonds]

The last 3 years the same posters have been ripping recruiting, then we go to the NCAA tournament and finish in the top 5 in one of the best leagues in the country.

It's like clockwork.  Recruits aren't 5 stars, we can't win without big men, too many guards, Big East teams will kill us, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[MUDPT]

3 years ago we got beat by Western Michigan in the NIT after finishing 8-8? in Conference USA.

[ChicosBailBonds]

3 years ago we got beat by Western Michigan in the NIT after finishing 8-8? in Conference USA.

I'm talking about the last 3 pre-seasons leading up to that season.  This is our 3rd pre-season leading into the Big East and it's the same doom and gloom each year.

And yes, we lost to Western Michigan with a multi-million dollar NBA player named Travis Diener sitting on the bench with a broken hand. 

The fascination with recruiting always has me perplexed.  Yeah, we're not pulling in 5 star guys, but a few 4 stars and plenty of 3 stars...the key is do they mesh well together and play well?  A TEAM!!   Give me a good team that plays well together over a bunch of great individual players every day of the week.

One needs to just look at LSU, Alabama and a few others from this past season to see what I'm talking about.

We will be just fine.  Good kids on the team now, more good players coming in and we will compete and compete at a high level with those kids and continue to go to the post season in the process.

[tower912]

We lost to Western because we had Marcus Jackson bringing the ball up.    Good rebounder, tough defender, lots of heart.....not a point guard.    TC swore he would never be caught short on guards again.   Now, a few years later, looking at the roster, unless there is a bus accident, there is no way we will get caught short of guards.

[muwarrior87]

It's all about finding the balance. The year TD was hurt, we had size but not much in the backcourt. The last couple years we've been guard heavy. From the recruits that we have lined up for the next few years, it looks like TC is trying to find that balance where we have the size we need to not get dominated down low and also have the guards to control the flow of the game and dominate the back court.

[Harrison]

"3 years ago we got beat by Western Michigan in the NIT after finishing 8-8? in Conference USA."

Exactly...then we bring in 3 top 50-75 recruits and are in the tourney again.


Go back to 2001 same situation then Crean signs Wade, Merrit and ODB....

Chicos is again lost...our recruitng has been OK at best. 

Our lineup in 2 years will have 2-3 top 100 kids depending on what rankings you use and whether those people ever make it on campus.   The top of the BE will sport a starting 5 of top 100 kids and 2-3 McD's. 

We will struggle if our 3 top 50 types are not replaced with commensuarte talent.  And the last two classes have been OK but will not replace this year and next year we must replace or we will struggle until we bring in the type of talent or peers are.

Lastly, I have to address the Uconn comments...the look at Uconn comments saying look at their talent and what happened....That is retarded...no other way to put it.  Uconn lost 4-5 guys to the 1st round, a number of whom were underclassmen.  they were very talented last year just all young, their "star" in Adrien was about 8th man the year before.  After being #1 and two titles I think the having the best talent method seems to work despite one year of struggling with abunch of McD's AA's. 

Another perfect example akin to the MU situation is Villanova...a program that had sort of treaded water then they sign 3 top 50 guards and have a couple of trmendous seasons....Last year the bottom would have fell out on Villanova because Jay Wright had signed some nice classes but not Top 1/3 of the BE type classes.   The only reasosn and absolutely the only reason Villanova was anything last year and the only rerason they made the NCAA's was because they got Scottie Reynolds.  they were on their way to a season that would only make Chico's happy with a bunch of top 150 player getting beat by future NBA players until Samson left OK, and Wright had a McD's AA fall into his lap.  He got "lucky" and replaced his talent, Mu has yet to do so.   

[The Lens]

It's long been my belief Crean recruits best when he has PT to sell.

[Marquette84]

**** The top of the BE will sport a starting 5 of top 100 kids and 2-3 McD's.  

Sort of like how Georgetown's success was fueled by 5 top 100 kids including 2 or three McDonalds . . .

Oops.  

Georgetown only had one former top 100 in their starting five last year.  

Green and Hibbert were a couple of "projects"--two or three years ago nobody would have given them a chance at competing with the type of talent that UConn or Syracuse or Providence was bringing in.  Spunds pretty familiar to the situation MU is finding themselves in.  

Now, I'll give you that Georgetown did have a McDonald's AA (Macklin) coming off the bench.  For all of 10 minutes/3 points per game.  And they've landed a couple more top 50 players this year--of course they had nothing to do with last year's team.

But this notion that only talent laden teams can succeed is pure nonsense.  Over the last couple of years teams like MU, Pitt, Georgetown and WVU have all cracked the upper division of the Big East without a ton of proven HS talent.  

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

It's long been my belief Crean recruits best when he has PT to sell.

No doubt about it, although I think you could probably say that about a lot of schools.

[ChicosBailBonds]

"3 years ago we got beat by Western Michigan in the NIT after finishing 8-8? in Conference USA."

Exactly...then we bring in 3 top 50-75 recruits and are in the tourney again.


Go back to 2001 same situation then Crean signs Wade, Merrit and ODB....

Chicos is again lost...our recruitng has been OK at best. 

Our lineup in 2 years will have 2-3 top 100 kids depending on what rankings you use and whether those people ever make it on campus.   The top of the BE will sport a starting 5 of top 100 kids and 2-3 McD's. 

We will struggle if our 3 top 50 types are not replaced with commensuarte talent.  And the last two classes have been OK but will not replace this year and next year we must replace or we will struggle until we bring in the type of talent or peers are.

Lastly, I have to address the Uconn comments...the look at Uconn comments saying look at their talent and what happened....That is retarded...no other way to put it.  Uconn lost 4-5 guys to the 1st round, a number of whom were underclassmen.  they were very talented last year just all young, their "star" in Adrien was about 8th man the year before.  After being #1 and two titles I think the having the best talent method seems to work despite one year of struggling with abunch of McD's AA's. 

Another perfect example akin to the MU situation is Villanova...a program that had sort of treaded water then they sign 3 top 50 guards and have a couple of trmendous seasons....Last year the bottom would have fell out on Villanova because Jay Wright had signed some nice classes but not Top 1/3 of the BE type classes.   The only reasosn and absolutely the only reason Villanova was anything last year and the only rerason they made the NCAA's was because they got Scottie Reynolds.  they were on their way to a season that would only make Chico's happy with a bunch of top 150 player getting beat by future NBA players until Samson left OK, and Wright had a McD's AA fall into his lap.  He got "lucky" and replaced his talent, Mu has yet to do so.   

Harrison, when a fact enters your post one day, send me an alert or something.  Thanks.

I'll remind you that it was you that said we've had 2 good recruiting classes in 8 years and that we wouldn't make the Big East Tournament 2 years ago.

[tower912]

If TC recruits best with PT to sell, then the 6'10" guys should have been flinging themselves at him.    I look at that list over at cracked sidewalks (thanks, by the way, everybody who put that together).  If we get one big (preferably Crittle or Ben-easy) and Schumpert, in addition to Williams, we will have a top 20 recruiting class.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

"3 years ago we got beat by Western Michigan in the NIT after finishing 8-8? in Conference USA."

Exactly...then we bring in 3 top 50-75 recruits and are in the tourney again.


Go back to 2001 same situation then Crean signs Wade, Merrit and ODB....

Chicos is again lost...our recruitng has been OK at best. 

Our lineup in 2 years will have 2-3 top 100 kids depending on what rankings you use and whether those people ever make it on campus.   The top of the BE will sport a starting 5 of top 100 kids and 2-3 McD's. 

We will struggle if our 3 top 50 types are not replaced with commensuarte talent.  And the last two classes have been OK but will not replace this year and next year we must replace or we will struggle until we bring in the type of talent or peers are.

Lastly, I have to address the Uconn comments...the look at Uconn comments saying look at their talent and what happened....That is retarded...no other way to put it.  Uconn lost 4-5 guys to the 1st round, a number of whom were underclassmen.  they were very talented last year just all young, their "star" in Adrien was about 8th man the year before.  After being #1 and two titles I think the having the best talent method seems to work despite one year of struggling with abunch of McD's AA's. 

Another perfect example akin to the MU situation is Villanova...a program that had sort of treaded water then they sign 3 top 50 guards and have a couple of trmendous seasons....Last year the bottom would have fell out on Villanova because Jay Wright had signed some nice classes but not Top 1/3 of the BE type classes.   The only reasosn and absolutely the only reason Villanova was anything last year and the only rerason they made the NCAA's was because they got Scottie Reynolds.  they were on their way to a season that would only make Chico's happy with a bunch of top 150 player getting beat by future NBA players until Samson left OK, and Wright had a McD's AA fall into his lap.  He got "lucky" and replaced his talent, Mu has yet to do so.   

I'll just say one last thing and then bail on this debate, because realistically I think everybody agrees, but we are all saying it differently.

Harrison, you are certainly right that MU needs talent to win. You are even right that MU's best teams have come when they have recruited the best talent.

I think were you vier off the path a little bit is when you seem very worried/annoyed with the potential recruiting classes for the next 2 seasons.

Again, we can all agree that MU needs talent to win, but you have to realize the tremendous amount of variables between now and 2010 that will effect MU's W - L record. You are pointing out one variable, but you are missing the big picture that 1000 other things could happen that could have a much greater effect.

I think you are hyper-focusing on player rankings instead of looking at things like:

Regional recruiting (2 great recruits from MN and WI this year, this is important because you like to keep strong recruiting ties in your own region)

Player development (Hayward is supposedly developing very quickly, and ooze has a chance to improve again),

Roster weaknesses (the team is still heavy in guards, but has added some depth in the front court with this year's recruits),

The coaching staff has had some turnover, which isn't great, but the new assistants appear qualified... hopefully they prove to be good coaches

ETC. ETC.


We can agree to disagree, and that's ok, but I just want to be clear that I think you have to look at a lot of things (along with recruiting rankings) before you can say that MU will be in trouble in 2 seasons.

[BuzzSucksSucks]

Here's a question for you Muscoopsters:  Does anybody know if there's a correlation between assistant coach tenure and recruiting success?  From what I read on the recruiting sites, the players seem to express loyalty to the programs who show early interest, and then maintain that support and interest as they come along.  I assume our assistant coaches do a lot of this relationship building, and maybe moreso with the younger guys. Just a thought.

[MUMD05]

This is my first actual post on this forum, but I have been following the forum for quite some time and am a recent graduate of MU, witnessing firsthand the highs and lows of the last few years.

I think everyone who is speaking negatively about the last two recruiting classes is missing the point entirely.  For the first time since I have been here, Marquette finally has depth!!!!!  I cannot stress that enough.  This upcoming season Tom Crean can go deep into his bench.  We have depth at every position and no longer do we have to bring in a particular player for offensive upside while disguising on defense.  Tom Crean has done an excellent job recruiting high quality players to frontline his attack and surround them with role players.  

And in regards to all of the notions about player rankings:  I have followed recruiting extensively over the past 7 years and Harrison, your comments are not accurate.  Dameon Mason was very highly touted, I believe 32nd by scout.com, Novak in the 50's on a consistent basis, obviously the three amigos in the top 100, and Mbakwe was in the top 100 before taking a dip recently.  Three years ago as a sophomore when Minnesota and Iowa State were recruiting him very hard, Trevor was considered by many in Minneapolis to be a can't miss prospect.  He has slipped in rivals, but you cannot tell me for one second that you are not happy to have him come in a contribute right away, especially over a guy like Bryce Webster, who by the way was ranked a lot higher  a year ago and has been having quite a bit problems or even Nankivil, who many people wanted badly, but simply would not fit into this uptempo offense.

Crean is doing an excellent job for this program by giving the reins to the uber-athletic Three Amigos.  And surrounding these guys with excellent role players, like a Cubillan, Hayward, Christopherson, Mbakwe, Acker, Fitz, and Ooze.

And one more thing: this team is not only building itself to win now, but it is shaping up to become a consistent mainstay in the top 8 of the Big East by emerging players that will gladly take the reins from the Three Amigos when need be suggest as a Hayward, and Nick Williams in the future.  Its always nice to say we have depth on this team.  But it is even better when someone can say that our surrounding players all know their roles and will step up when need be.

[Harrison]

"Crean is doing an excellent job for this program by giving the reins to the uber-athletic Three Amigos.  And surrounding these guys with excellent role players, like a Cubillan, Hayward, Christopherson, Mbakwe, Acker, Fitz, and Ooze."

I totally agree...the issue is who replaces the big 3... This year and next year or the bottom falls out. 

[Marquette84]

I totally agree...the issue is who replaces the big 3... This year and next year or the bottom falls out. 

A backcourt of Christopherson, Acker, Williams, and Cubillan will not be a "bottom drops out" situation.  Add Shumpert and it's likely a "zero drop off" situation.

[muwarrior87]

I totally agree...the issue is who replaces the big 3... This year and next year or the bottom falls out. 

A backcourt of Christopherson, Acker, Williams, and Cubillan will not be a "bottom drops out" situation.  Add Shumpert and it's likely a "zero drop off" situation.

gotta agree there, christopherson is gonna be a very good shooter for us, we've seen what Cubie can do and Acker will be a very solid true point guard.  Williams and if Shumpert is added will be a very solid back court. not much of a drop off if any, lose some athleticism but gain shooting

[ChicosBailBonds]

I totally agree...the issue is who replaces the big 3... This year and next year or the bottom falls out. 

A backcourt of Christopherson, Acker, Williams, and Cubillan will not be a "bottom drops out" situation.  Add Shumpert and it's likely a "zero drop off" situation.

Exactly.  Plus Mkwabe is a huge lift for the next 4 years, I think we will land at least one more quality big man in the next 2 years.  I don't know why the doom and gloom each year, it's not as if the results have mirrored the gloom at all.

The Big 3 will be replaced but I would argue in a more responsible way, meaning with more depth, more options and not solely a focus on 3 guys.  That has already begun to happen with tremendous depth on this team that we haven't seen in years.

[Pardner]

TC loves all out and quickness--thus he has stressed guards and shooting forewards when recruiting hs players.  He has tended to take transfers or JC players lately for bigs...which has been mixed bag.  Why?  Surer thing on bigs which is a crap shoot as it is, can pick out the "big" type he needs as a role player, could get a late bloomer, top bigs went pro right out of hs--which wastes 4-6 years of recruiting.  Ooze was a project so he was going to stay 4 years.  Recently, JC/transfer bigs haven't worked out as well as RJax did.  With new NBA draft rule about at least one year, it looks like TC getting back into the game as he sees he is exposed on back line match-up depth.  Already, his recruiting list reflects this.

[muwarrior87]

TC loves all out and quickness--thus he has stressed guards and shooting forewards when recruiting hs players.  He has tended to take transfers or JC players lately for bigs...which has been mixed bag.  Why?  Surer thing on bigs which is a crap shoot as it is, can pick out the "big" type he needs as a role player, could get a late bloomer, top bigs went pro right out of hs--which wastes 4-6 years of recruiting.  Ooze was a project so he was going to stay 4 years.  Recently, JC/transfer bigs haven't worked out as well as RJax did.  With new NBA draft rule about at least one year, it looks like TC getting back into the game as he sees he is exposed on back line match-up depth.  Already, his recruiting list reflects this.

another example of the projects bigs sometimes are is Hibbert. Man could barely do a pushup his frosh year and now look at him, still slow but a fairly dominant presence down low.