fiscal cliff

[reinko]

Well this WAS a reasonable thread.  Not shocked to see a couple of ideologues take it off course.

[Jay Bee]

Hards is gunna be pissed when he realizes his "share" of his SS taxes went back up to 6.2% yesterday.

Since he makes $42,000... that's $42k x 6.2% = $840 this year. $840 can buy a lot of granola and sandals.

[Hards Alumni]

Hards is gunna be pissed when he realizes his "share" of his SS taxes went back up to 6.2% yesterday.

Since he makes $42,000... that's $42k x 6.2% = $840 this year. $840 can buy a lot of granola and sandals.

Well, I make more than that now.  And I don't mind chipping in.  I'd hate to see all you old timers out in the streets because I need those sandals and granola more than you need food and shelter.

[hairy worthen]

Not sure Texas has a thriving economy but if they do it is for one reason -- Oil.  And your fearless leader named Rick Perry, if he is anything like what he came across during the Republican primaries, is the biggest empty suit on the planet...which is exactly what big oil wants.

Mods, go ahead and lock this now before it degenerates further.

Oh

That’s right, dig into that democrat play book and blame everything on evil big oil. I challenge you to go 1 hour without using something that is produced with the help of “big oil”.   Not to mention they pay billions in tax dollars and create millions of jobs for the economy. 

[Hards Alumni]

That’s right, dig into that democrat play book and blame everything on evil big oil. I challenge you to go 1 hour without using something that is produced with the help of “big oil”.   Not to mention they pay billions in tax dollars and create millions of jobs for the economy. 

??????

[ATWizJr]

??????

You disagree?

[hairy worthen]

Other facts:

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1109193#bmb=1
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/18/news/economy/poverty_perry_texas/index.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/09/19/us/politics/who-doesnt-pay-federal-taxes.html
http://www.lung.org/assets/documents/publications/state-of-the-air/state-of-the-air-2011-report.pdf
http://healthyamericans.org/report/98/obseityratesbystate

If you are too lazy to read, your great state has one of the worst health care systems, highest poverty rates, some of the worst air to breathe in the country, your kids are fatter than most, and your state takes in more federal dollars than it pays, so enjoy MY tax dollars down there.

I am sure you can find a number of articles that support any argument. You are using some pretty liberal leaning publications that had an agenda of making Rick Perry look bad when he was running for president.  CNN, NY Times, and 2 dot orgs.  Not exactly organizations that I would trust to get unbiased information. 
There are other factors that those articles will not tell you, like Texas has a huge Hispanic and illegal alien problem that skew the numbers.  Air quality?  There are many cities that have air quality issues for a number of reasons, L.A., Denver, Chicago. 

[hairy worthen]

??????

Look it up not hard to find information.

[ATL MU Warrior]

That’s right, dig into that democrat play book and blame everything on evil big oil. I challenge you to go 1 hour without using something that is produced with the help of “big oil”.   Not to mention they pay billions in tax dollars and create millions of jobs for the economy. 

Firstly, I am not a democrat.  Secondly, you just said exactly the same thing I did, which is that oil/the energy industry is largely responsible for a very robust economy in Texas.  That's a no-brainer.  Of course there are other industries that contribute, but oil is what made Texas what it is today.

Oh, and Chicos, I have been to Texas more times than I can count.  My best friend in the world used to live in Austin and is now in Houston and I have travelled there for business dozens of times.  Much prefer Houston to Dallas (shocking I know since I hate BIG OIL and all) as the people are generally less arrogant than those I have encountered in Dallas.

On my many trips I am generally very excited to be leaving again as the whole "Don't mess with Texas" and Everything is bigger in Texas" schtick gets old really fast.  Other than that, it's a great place.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A thriving economy isn't the end-all-be-all measuring stick for a government (either state or federal).

I can create a thriving economy tomorrow. Deregulate everything, ban unions, no more OSHA, repeal all environmental laws, sub-contract out all government labor jobs, and remove the minimum wage. We'll be thriving in no time. Seriously. It would work.

But, at what cost? Poor workplace safety? Ruin every waterway in the country with toxic waste? Cut down EVERY tree? Workers working 60+ hours per week for low wages? Copy-cat products and blatant rip-offs of patents? A desperate working/labor class of people?

The key is to have sound economic policies while keeping the long term vision and quality of life high for your citizens.

So, saying "(Insert place) has a thriving economy!" is great, but it's short-sighted to think that is the primary goal for a governing body.

I learned this all in SIM CITY.

[akmarq]

I am sure you can find a number of articles that support any argument. You are using some pretty liberal leaning publications that had an agenda of making Rick Perry look bad when he was running for president.  CNN, NY Times, and 2 dot orgs.  Not exactly organizations that I would trust to get unbiased information. 
There are other factors that those articles will not tell you, like Texas has a huge Hispanic and illegal alien problem that skew the numbers.  Air quality?  There are many cities that have air quality issues for a number of reasons, L.A., Denver, Chicago. 

Let today be the day we found out that being a .org website qualifies you as liberal leaning.
And that CNN and the NYT are discounted for being overly biased newsources.

Lock this mother down.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I am sure you can find a number of articles that support any argument. You are using some pretty liberal leaning publications that had an agenda of making Rick Perry look bad when he was running for president.  CNN, NY Times, and 2 dot orgs.  Not exactly organizations that I would trust to get unbiased information. 
There are other factors that those articles will not tell you, like Texas has a huge Hispanic and illegal alien problem that skew the numbers.  Air quality?  There are many cities that have air quality issues for a number of reasons, L.A., Denver, Chicago. 

And you get your "unbiased" information where exactly?  Please share.

[Hards Alumni]

Look it up not hard to find information.

I'm well aware that they do.  But that what is required of them as a corporation.  What's the point?

[Hards Alumni]

A thriving economy isn't the end-all-be-all measuring stick for a government (either state or federal).

I can create a thriving economy tomorrow. Deregulate everything, ban unions, no more OSHA, repeal all environmental laws, sub-contract out all government labor jobs, and remove the minimum wage. We'll be thriving in no time. Seriously. It would work.

But, at what cost? Poor workplace safety? Ruin every waterway in the country with toxic waste? Cut down EVERY tree? Workers working 60+ hours per week for low wages? Copy-cat products and blatant rip-offs of patents? A desperate working/labor class of people?

The key is to have sound economic policies while keeping the long term vision and quality of life high for your citizens.

So, saying "(Insert place) has a thriving economy!" is great, but it's short-sighted to think that is the primary goal for a governing body.

I learned this all in SIM CITY.

lol china.

[hairy worthen]

Firstly, I am not a democrat.  Secondly, you just said exactly the same thing I did, which is that oil/the energy industry is largely responsible for a very robust economy in Texas.  That's a no-brainer.  Of course there are other industries that contribute, but oil is what made Texas what it is today.

Oh, and Chicos, I have been to Texas more times than I can count.  My best friend in the world used to live in Austin and is now in Houston and I have travelled there for business dozens of times.  Much prefer Houston to Dallas (shocking I know since I hate BIG OIL and all) as the people are generally less arrogant than those I have encountered in Dallas.

On my many trips I am generally very excited to be leaving again as the whole "Don't mess with Texas" and Everything is bigger in Texas" schtick gets old really fast.  Other than that, it's a great place.

(Firstly? Is that a word?)   Firstly,  I didn’t say you were a Democrat, read more closely.  

Second, Oil WAS a major part of the Texas economy, but the Texas economy is much more diversified now. Houston had a horrible oil crash in the 80’s but they recovered largely by having a more diversified economy. Houston is doing well now and it is not primarily because of the oil companies.
Also, travelling to Texas many times for business and to visit a friend does not make you an expert on the Texas economy.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

lol china.

Well, yea, that's a decent example... but their political landscape is so different that I don't really know enough to talk intelligently about it.

For a more local example you go back the the US industrial revolution where you can see thriving capitalism, which I like... but there were some serious costs, which the government helped correct over time.

[hairy worthen]

Let today be the day we found out that being a .org website qualifies you as liberal leaning.
And that CNN and the NYT are discounted for being overly biased newsources.

Lock this mother down.

If you do no think CNN and NY Times are liberal leaning and bias, then I suggest you open your eyes a little wider. And yes many .orgs are liberal leaning because many get funding from the government.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

And yes many .orgs are liberal leaning because many get funding from the government.

Wait, is this is a real thing? 

Stuff funded by tax payers is inherently liberal and should be dismissed automatically?

[akmarq]

If you do no think CNN and NY Times are liberal leaning and bias, then I suggest you open your eyes a little wider. And yes many .orgs are liberal leaning because many get funding from the government.

Did you even read the links that were posted? The NY Times piece was an infographic on the tax burden. Please show me the overwhelming and 'unbiased' evidence you have to attack their analysis with.

I can understanding if you were so easily dismissing something like MSNBC or Mother Jones, but in spectrum of viewpoints, the NYT is pretty much in the middle of things.

[hairy worthen]

I'm well aware that they do.  But that what is required of them as a corporation.  What's the point?

The point is, that oil companies should not be demonized at every turn, especially to become re-elected.  Oil companies have the right to make a profit just like any other company.  Paying billions in taxes to the over spending government is a good thing, correct?

You are correct, it is what is required of them as corporations, but they are no different than other big corporations. You do not see other big corporations such as Ford, GM, Apple, Microsoft, GE get ragged on constantly for being greedy to the extent that oil companies do. Why? Because the average person can relate to paying more money at the pump, so the politicians jump on it to help them politically. The reality is the price of bread, milk and many other things has probably increased much more than a gallon of gas has in the past 30 years.

[hairy worthen]

Wait, is this is a real thing?  

Stuff funded by tax payers is inherently liberal and should be dismissed automatically?

No, you are putting words in my mouth.  The main point is that there are many sources of information out there that will give you many sides to a story. To cherry pick a few that supports your point of view does not tell the whole picture.  All I am saying is have some objectivity when reading an article and understand who is writing the article.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

In before the lock.

[hairy worthen]

Did you even read the links that were posted? The NY Times piece was an infographic on the tax burden. Please show me the overwhelming and 'unbiased' evidence you have to attack their analysis with.

I can understanding if you were so easily dismissing something like MSNBC or Mother Jones, but in spectrum of viewpoints, the NYT is pretty much in the middle of things.

There is a media bias, I think most people would agree with that.  When you read an article or watch the news you have to take an objective look at it because they are usually slanting it one way or another.  Almost any data or statistics can be looked at to support your point of view.  Some things are left out or taken out of context or do not tell the whole story. 

NYT is generally known as a left leaning publication.

[4everwarriors]

I'm sure poor 4ever is going to be destitute, living out of the back of his Mercedes 

Are you referrin' to the Benz I earned or the Benz that I got because government is responsible for my success?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

No, you are putting words in my mouth.  The main point is that there are many sources of information out there that will give you many sides to a story. To cherry pick a few that supports your point of view does not tell the whole picture.  All I am saying is have some objectivity when reading an article and understand who is writing the article.

Well, I don't want to start a crappy debate, but this is what you said:

If you do no think CNN and NY Times are liberal leaning and bias, then I suggest you open your eyes a little wider. And yes many .orgs are liberal leaning because many get funding from the government.

You didn't dismiss the information in the .org articles based upon the facts they present, you simply dismissed them because they are .orgs, and in your mind, many .orgs are liberal leaning because they are funded by the government.

Is this this accurate?