Gonzaga

[keefe]

My friend played for Steve Hertz at Gonzaga and reports Hertz is actively involved in ongoing talks about the Zags joining the C7. Hertz' role is to figure out logistics issues. One note is that both Gonzaga and St Mary's were members of the Pac 10 for many sports for many years. These schools have great programs and will add to the new conference much more than the also rans of the A 10. I look forward to the announcement of Gonzaga linking up with the C7.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My friend played for Steve Hertz at Gonzaga and reports Hertz is actively involved in ongoing talks about the Zags joining the C7. Hertz' role is to figure out logistics issues. One note is that both Gonzaga and St Mary's were members of the Pac 10 for many sports for many years. These schools have great programs and will add to the new conference much more than the also rans of the A 10. I look forward to the announcement of Gonzaga linking up with the C7.

I wouldn't say many sports..there were a few, like baseball, where there was a Pacific 10 Northern Division.  That ended almost 20 years ago..1995.  Gonzaga and Portland left in baseball to play in the WCC for baseball (where they were already members in most other sports).  Back then, the north division was kind of a secodn tier in baseball with Washington, Washington State, Oregon State and Portland State along with Portland and Gonzaga.  In the south you had the powers with Stanford, Cal, UCLA, USC, Arizona and Arizona State...the number of baseball national titles between those 6 was staggering.  There was a lot of anger form the northern schools that the Southern division schools weren't giving them the time of day...and they were right.  So that was part of the reason for the breakup in baseball.

I'm not aware of Gonzaga participating in any other Pac 10 sports other than baseball and that was a long time ago.  Hertz has been up there for ever, probably 25 years or more.  There are still schools today that have affiliate membership in some sports, like Boise State (Wrestling only), UCSB (Swimming and Diving), San Diego State (soccer) and a few others.  Not aware of St. Mary's ever being involved in the Pac 8, 10, or 12 conference, but it's certainly possible in something like softball or some other sport.

[MURFC]

My friend played for Steve Hertz at Gonzaga and reports Hertz is actively involved in ongoing talks about the Zags joining the C7. Hertz' role is to figure out logistics issues. One note is that both Gonzaga and St Mary's were members of the Pac 10 for many sports for many years. These schools have great programs and will add to the new conference much more than the also rans of the A 10. I look forward to the announcement of Gonzaga linking up with the C7.

I am interested to see how this would work.  Absolutely love the idea.  As it has been stated several times, this would only result in 1-4 trips out west (depending if SMC is added as well) for Marquette hoops.  The real question is the time/cost of sending all of our other programs to the west coast for conference play.  If you are able to fly direct, which admittedly most sports would not be able to do, it is only a negligible difference in flight time in comparison to USF.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

I like the idea of Gonzaga joining the league.

I hate the idea of Gonzaga joining the league if it means that St. Mary's has to come too. Gonzaga and BYU are the only two programs west of Omaha who are fits for this new league. Therefore, if you can't get BYU, sorry Gonzaga, you either fly solo or you don't fly at all.

The  league is probably not going to go above 12 teams for some time. With Xavier and Butler already with one foot in the door, that only leaves 3 spots left. Are you really going to use one of your 3 remaining league slots just to admit a team who plays in a gym barely bigger than the AL? The end result means you can only have one of Creighton, SLU, Dayton, VCU, George Mason, etc. before you're at 12.

And for what?
--"Bay Area TV?" SMC is on their best day, in a complete dream world, a third or fourth-place also-ran college program in the Bay Area. Saying SMC delivers Bay Area eyeballs is like saying Loyola delivers the Chicago TV market.
--"A travel partner for Gonzaga?" They're 867 miles apart. That'd be like adding Tulane to be a travel partner for Xavier.
--"An up and coming program?" They've been to the tournament  5 times since 1990. Same as SLU.

SLU gives you exactly the same thing as St. Mary's but 1) Are on their worst day, the #3 college team in St. Louis after Mizzou and UIUC, but play in a city with no pro basketball. 2.) You can drive from SLU to DePaul, back to SLU, and then start a second road trip from SLU to Butler for the same distance as it would take St. Mary's to make one trip to Gonzaga, 3.) Reduced travel costs for conference members, and an athletic program that is at least on par with St. Mary's.

Long post short
Gonzaga > SLU
SLU > SMC
SLU > Gonzaga + SMC

[Brewtown Andy]

I am interested to see how this would work.  Absolutely love the idea.  As it has been stated several times, this would only result in 1-4 trips out west (depending if SMC is added as well) for Marquette hoops.  The real question is the time/cost of sending all of our other programs to the west coast for conference play.  If you are able to fly direct, which admittedly most sports would not be able to do, it is only a negligible difference in flight time in comparison to USF.

I should hope there'd be direct flights to Oakland and Spokane.

[buckchuckler]

Long post short
Gonzaga > SLU
SLU > SMC
SLU > Gonzaga + SMC

Completely disagree with this math. 

Any equation that involves the Zags in the league outweighs the negatives of adding any other team to accommodate them.

[keefe]

Completely disagree with this math. 

Any equation that involves the Zags in the league outweighs the negatives of adding any other team to accommodate them.

Adding the Zags is a must do. As for St Mary's, I have no idea what is going on with C7 if anything. I have it on very good authority that the Zags only have to say the word and it's a done deal. Their issue is it just BB or is it everything. Hertz is tabulating the defining the impact of logistics but I am guessing it is for internal reasons with regard to the other sports.

[GGGG]

Some rumors that BYU isn't finding the entire "football independence" thing to be much of a positive and are looking for a spot to land in an all sports conference....perhaps even back in the MWC.  They will probably hold out for a couple years more looking for a potential B12 invite, but I don't think I want them involved.

[nathanziarek]

You that over-used word "synergy" whereby some magic two parts add up to greater than the whole? That's what adding Gonzaga is from a public relations perspective—they not only add a great athletic program, but another pop of excitement.

[nathanziarek]

Some rumors that BYU isn't finding the entire "football independence" thing to be much of a positive and are looking for a spot to land in an all sports conference....perhaps even back in the MWC.  They will probably hold out for a couple years more looking for a potential B12 invite, but I don't think I want them involved.

Schools with football are causing this mess. I understand the want to take great basketball programs, but if they have football, they will always be looking and we'll never have stability. I don't want any of them involved.

(ND might be the exception, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them be the straw that breaks the ACC's back, either).

[Marqevans]

Schools with football are causing this mess. I understand the want to take great basketball programs, but if they have football, they will always be looking and we'll never have stability. I don't want any of them involved.

(ND might be the exception, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them be the straw that breaks the ACC's back, either).

Getting ND to come to join the Catholic 7 would be the best fit possible.  They will never join a conference for football. 

[GGGG]

Getting ND to come to join the Catholic 7 would be the best fit possible.  They will never join a conference for football. 

But they aren't going to join the C7 either.  Associating themselves with the ACC has its benefits from their perspective.

[MU82]

ND ... of course if they'd do it.

Gonzaga ... love the idea of them in the C7, and wouldn't mind at all if it's just for men's hoops.

St. Mary's ... less excited about them with each passing day.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thing is, if you are Gonzaga, you are going to want someone from the west coast to be part of this league.  It makes total sense.  They want a travel partner, they want to keep rivalries, etc.  Having just Gonzaga, really isolates them. If I'm Gonzaga, I would say you have to make it a 2fer.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

Thing is, if you are Gonzaga, you are going to want someone from the west coast to be part of this league.  It makes total sense.  They want a travel partner, they want to keep rivalries, etc.  Having just Gonzaga, really isolates them. If I'm Gonzaga, I would say you have to make it a 2fer.

Can someone explain the travel partner thing to me? Do schools share charter flights for non-revenue sports or something. I don't get why it matters to Gonzaga if there is another school that also has to travel cross country.

[Skatastrophy]

Can someone explain the travel partner thing to me? Do schools share charter flights for non-revenue sports or something. I don't get why it matters to Gonzaga if there is another school that also has to travel cross country.

I don't understand the travel partner thing, but I do understand wanting to have a regional rival.

[GGGG]

Can someone explain the travel partner thing to me? Do schools share charter flights for non-revenue sports or something. I don't get why it matters to Gonzaga if there is another school that also has to travel cross country.

Cross country plane trips are long.  One team brings the juice boxes, the other brings the orange slices.

[Tugg Speedman]

Can someone explain the travel partner thing to me? Do schools share charter flights for non-revenue sports or something. I don't get why it matters to Gonzaga if there is another school that also has to travel cross country.

First, no charter flights.  That is for the basketball teams only.  To send the soccer team (which number 30 to 40 people when players, coaches, trainers and others are considered) one-way to Spokane on a charter is more than 50k.  100k round trip.  I doubt the school spends this much on the entire program (not including scholarships).

Non-revenue sports take a bus to Chicago Midway and fly Southwest or some other discount airline.  It long, hard, luggage gets lost, flights get delay, you know the drill.

So as long as you're out on the west coast, hopefully you can stay and play another school, the "travel partner."

The problem with St. Marys is they are 800 miles away.  That's like saying Tulane is MU's travel partner.  So Gonzaga has no travel partner.    It makes everything hard and more expensive for non-revenue sports.  It really makes things hard for Gonzaga non-revenue sports as every away contest is 1,000 miles away.

The solution is for Gonzaga to join the C7 for basketball only.  Is that likely?

[GGGG]

The solution is for Gonzaga to join the C7 for basketball only.  Is that likely?

This has been brought up before and I don't think it is.  The reason being, why would the WCC allow this?  Why would they allow the premier basketball school to move its product elsewhere while still incurring the cost of having to travel to Spokane for non-revenue sports?

BYU, and in the future Boise and SDSU, are parking their non-football sports in a conference that doesn't sponsor football.  (WCC and Big West respectively.)  Notre Dame is different, but Notre Dame is Notre Dame.

Perhaps if the money is enough in Big East basketball, Gonzaga might be willing to "pay" for their continued non-revenue membership in the WCC.  For instance, an agreement to play two road games at WCC schools per year...perhaps sending the conference $500k from its share of an increased television contract each year...  Anything can be negotiated.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Can someone explain the travel partner thing to me? Do schools share charter flights for non-revenue sports or something. I don't get why it matters to Gonzaga if there is another school that also has to travel cross country.

Here would be my answer based on what has worked out here for many years.

You are thinking about it from an outbound perspective only, not inbound.  The Pac 12 has been doing this for years to great success.  When you go visit Oregon on Thursday, you visit Oregon State on Saturday.  When you travel down to UCLA on Thursday, you play USC on Saturday.  Cal and Stanford..same.  Arizona and ASU..same.  Washington and Wash State..same.

You fly out to the coast, you take care of two games.  That's part of it.


Then we get back to rivalries.  Imagine being a Marquette alum and we join a conference in which all of the teams in our league are in California, Oregon, Arizona and New Mexico.  EVERY ONE OF THEM.  How many people here would clamor for another conference team like DePaul or another school at least in the same time zone?  Many here would, just as Gonzaga is going to do the same.  They are going to want at least another school they are familiar with, plays in their time zone, etc.  Otherwise you are putting an unfair travel burden on their athletes.  Think about a 12 team league in which half your games are on the road.  For Gonzaga in this league, they are traveling a ton every time they come out, get back to school for classes, come back out for games, get back to school for classes, wash, rinse, repeat. 

They are going to want a travel partner and someone that is at least in their region.  They would be foolish not to ask for something like this and make it a condition of any entry.  I would demand if I were their AD or president.  If I didn't get it, then I stay in the WCC and continue to make the NCAA tournament every year. 

[Tugg Speedman]

They are going to want a travel partner and someone that is at least in their region.  They would be foolish not to ask for something like this and make it a condition of any entry.  I would demand if I were their AD or president.  If I didn't get it, then I stay in the WCC and continue to make the NCAA tournament every year. 

ok, who does Gonzaga want as their travel partner?

[Ellenson Guerrero]

I guess the travel partner thing makes sense in an ideal world, but I'm not sure taking care of two games on one trip is worth adding a school like St. Mary's to the rest of the C7. From Gonzaga's perspective, I'm sure they'd like to have a school closer by, but if they value that enough to make it a condition of entry, then why are they thinking of joining this conference in the first place?

I think this just comes down to how badly Gonzaga wants to take a step up in the conference food chain. If they are willing to swallow the travel, expense, and lack of geographic rivalries in order to play with some better basketball schools then welcome them aboard. If they are going to demand that the C7 start adding lesser programs in order to get Gonzaga, then we just part ways amicably and add Creighton/Dayton/VCU. The difference between those schools and Gonzaga isn't great enough to warrant adding a tag along, geographically inconsistent, bottom feeder.

[ChicosBailBonds]

ok, who does Gonzaga want as their travel partner?

Someone from their time zone.  More than like St. Mary's.  If there were better candidates (i.e. better basketball schools) closer to them, they would prefer them...Seattle U., Portland, Portland State, etc.  None of them are of the quality that will make them worthy of this league, so St. Mary's becomes the defacto alternative.

Some folks here need to put themselves in Gonzaga's shoes.  Travel to Milwaukee and Chicago for two games...come home...classes.  Travel to Omaha and Indy..come home for classes.  Travel to NYC, Philly...go home for classes.  Travel to D.C. and Providence...come home for classes.  You get the idea.  We're asking a TON from Gonzaga if this were to happen.  They will be at a considerable travel disadvantage to everyone else.  Every game in the Eastern or Central time zones so their fans on weeknights have to get home by 5:00pm to watch.  Etc, etc, etc.

[GOO]

If they could get the Zags and BYU, that would be great. Maybe then add a west coast team. I don't care how good BYU is - they bring fans and eyeballs.  Lots of ifs, and buts... Of course. Worth a shot.

[GGGG]

ok, who does Gonzaga want as their travel partner?

Potential candidates...

Geographically proximate:  Seattle, Portland (neither make a great deal of sense)
Basketball success: BYU, St. Marys (BYU has that damn football team though.)
Obligatory outside-the-box suggestion: Denver

BTW, to accomplish this exercise, I actually pulled out a map.  And holy crap I didn't really fully comprehend how isolated Gonzaga would be from the rest of the conference.  This would be the equivalent of the Big Ten adding Oregon.  And while all conferences are expanding their footprint, they aren't doing so like this.  (WVU to B12 excluded...oh and that clusterf*ck called the Big East.)