Gonzaga

[GOO]

I hope your right keefe.  Who will be the travel partner, if there will be one?

[Marqus Howard]

I hope Keefe is right. I would love to have Gonzaga join. Adding St. Mary's doesn't make much sense though.

[keefe]

Other sports is a HUGE deal. Travel costs could kill programs. Maybe not for DePaul or MU, but for the East Voast schools its a ridiculous price for non bball schools.

Gonzaga is in for BB. They may or may not bring other sports. Other sports is not the issue for Gonzaga. They are open to leaving them in WCC.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It might not make sense to you but you are not Gonzaga. Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports. Trust me - other sports is not a big deal and will get sorted.

Aren't you using conflicting comments in your statement?  Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports"...then you say a moment later that other sports is not a big deal.  If it's not a big deal, then why are they bothering to take a last look?

[keefe]

Aren't you using conflicting comments in your statement?  Gonzaga is in, pending a last look at logistics and other sports"...then you say a moment later that other sports is not a big deal.  If it's not a big deal, then why are they bothering to take a last look?

No conflicts in what I say. Gonzaga BB is in. Period. I understand the BoD wants to understand the financial impact but they already agree it will not be greater than the upgraded TV deal and so many other financial benefits. Then there are the intangibles. Only question is about other sports and that is something Hertz' team is modeling now. I understand they are looking at options other than C7 membership. WCC will be happy as Zags can play Seattle and Portland and everyone on both sides will be happy. What I don't know is what the Zags will ask for when they meet with C7 in January but I am told they will be very flexible as getting in is seen by Zags as imperative. Don't expect deal breakers tho they will ask for some considerations. You lose a lot of leverage once you say I do.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Gonzaga is in for BB. They may or may not bring other sports. Other sports is not the issue for Gonzaga. They are open to leaving them in WCC.

Why would the WCC say it's ok for Gonzaga to not play basketball...the premier basketball school in their conference...but still be allowed to participate in all other sports in the WCC?  Why would the WCC be open to this, especially since their television deal is largely based on success of Gonzaga basketball?

[keefe]

Why would the WCC say it's ok for Gonzaga to not play basketball...the premier basketball school in their conference...but still be allowed to participate in all other sports in the WCC?  Why would the WCC be open to this, especially since their television deal is largely based on success of Gonzaga basketball?

I don't know. Neither do you. We'll see after the January meetings.

[GGGG]

No conflicts in what I say. Gonzaga BB is in. Period. I understand the BoD wants to understand the financial impact but they already agree it will not be greater than the upgraded TV deal and so many other financial benefits. Then there are the intangibles. Only question is about other sports and that is something Hertz' team is modeling now. I understand they are looking at options other than C7 membership. WCC will be happy as Zags can play Seattle and Portland and everyone on both sides will be happy. What I don't know is what the Zags will ask for when they meet with C7 in January but I am told they will be very flexible as getting in is seen by Zags as imperative. Don't expect deal breakers tho they will ask for some considerations. You lose a lot of leverage once you say I do.

Seattle isn't in the WCC.  They are in the WAC. 

But this is the kind of thing I alluded to.  Give the WCC some games or $$ and it will work out.

[Dawson Rental]

I did the same thing.  Actually made one up.  Good way to visualize what we're discussing.

http://goo.gl/maps/Xe6Fx

Let's add schools from Toronto and Montreal!

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Someone from their time zone.  More than like St. Mary's.  If there were better candidates (i.e. better basketball schools) closer to them, they would prefer them...Seattle U., Portland, Portland State, etc.  None of them are of the quality that will make them worthy of this league, so St. Mary's becomes the defacto alternative.

Some folks here need to put themselves in Gonzaga's shoes.  Travel to Milwaukee and Chicago for two games...come home...classes.  Travel to Omaha and Indy..come home for classes.  Travel to NYC, Philly...go home for classes.  Travel to D.C. and Providence...come home for classes.  You get the idea.  We're asking a TON from Gonzaga if this were to happen.  They will be at a considerable travel disadvantage to everyone else.  Every game in the Eastern or Central time zones so their fans on weeknights have to get home by 5:00pm to watch.  Etc, etc, etc.

I was under the impression we were starting a college athletics conference, not creating a charity to help Gonzaga raise their athletics profile. Gonzaga needs the Catholic 7 much....MUCH more than the Catholic 7 needs Gonzaga.

[keefe]

I was under the impression we were starting a college athletics conference, not creating a charity to help Gonzaga raise their athletics profile. Gonzaga needs the Catholic 7 much....MUCH more than the Catholic 7 needs Gonzaga.

Mutual benefit situation. We are way better off with the Zags than any of the other schools mentioned, save X and Butler.

[Dawson Rental]

Mutual benefit situation. We are way better off with the Zags than any of the other schools mentioned, save X and Butler.

Gonzaga is a huge geographic mismatch for the new league.  In the end, my opinion, your opinion, and  Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup's opinion won't be worth squat.  All that is going to matter is whether the TV people think that their addition to the league will be lucrative enough to increase the payout to the league enough to make it worthwhile for Gonzaga and the rest of the league to deal with the inconveniences involved with Gonzaga's location.  If its not, then the new league is not better off with Gonzaga.  Until the TV people make their determination we just won't know.  All we can do is guess.  (And hope, If we really want that extra high ranked team.)  When The TV folks have spoken, Gonzaga will almost certainly have the biggest decision to make, so it just makes sense that they are doing the most number crunching now.

[keefe]

Do the University of Phoenix or Ashford U have BB teams?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't know. Neither do you. We'll see after the January meetings.

I don't know and that's why I'm asking as you seem to be implying it's all but a done deal other than some logistics.  If I'm the WCC, I can't for the life of me figure out why I would let Gonzaga play in all sports but basketball.  Makes no sense.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I was under the impression we were starting a college athletics conference, not creating a charity to help Gonzaga raise their athletics profile. Gonzaga needs the Catholic 7 much....MUCH more than the Catholic 7 needs Gonzaga.

I don't think Gonzaga is going to agree with you on that.

14 straight NCAA tournament appearances without the Catholic 7 and just the little, teeny, tiny, WCC.

They will be just fine without the C7.  I've asked the question here and no one has stepped up to answer it yet.

If Marquette was invited to a conference in which every other team was 2 time zones away, how would you feel?  Would you want us to demand at least one like minded team in our region for purposes of travel, costs, rivalries, alumni, game starting times, etc?  Is that a charitable ask or a common sense ask?  Gonzaga doesn't need the C7 and we don't need Gonzaga.  Would I like to have them...you bet.  Would Gonzaga probably like to be in this conference?  Most likely, but I suspect if they are doing their school a favor as well as their student athletes and their alumni, they're going to ask for some concessions.  They'd be foolish not to.

[Marqus Howard]

I don't know and that's why I'm asking as you seem to be implying it's all but a done deal other than some logistics.  If I'm the WCC, I can't for the life of me figure out why I would let Gonzaga play in all sports but basketball.  Makes no sense.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious about how much leverage the WCC has. Is it possible that Gonzaga is ready to risk their relationship with the WCC in order to boost their basketball profile? Is the WAC or another conference that much of a downgrade for their other sports?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious about how much leverage the WCC has. Is it possible that Gonzaga is ready to risk their relationship with the WCC in order to boost their basketball profile? Is the WAC or another conference that much of a downgrade for their other sports?

Without basketball, Gonzaga is basically nothing to the WCC. It kills their tv deal, etc. They simply don't bring anything to the table outside of men's hoops so the WCC would have all the leverage they need when it comes to the other Gonzaga sports.  Either you're all in or you're not in at all would be my take.  Spokane is such a nightmare to get to already, it's a pill other WCC schools can swallow because of how good Gonzaga hoops are, but take them out of the equation, what's the incentive?  Certainly not the big Gonzaga vs Loyola Marymont soccer match. 

Gonzaga finished 7th of 9 schools in the WCC for their all sports standings Commissioner Cup in 2012.  Basically it's hoops and crap. In 2001, they finished 7th of 8.  Year before that, 8th of 8.  They simply have a really poor athletic department except for men's hoops.  They haven't even finished in the upper half for all sports in almost a decade..doing it one time finishing 4th of 8.

I just don't know why Jamie Zaninovich would go for this.  If they lose Gonzaga, they still have 8 schools to have a valid NCAA conference.  If they were going under the minimum, then they would lose a ton of leverage, but that isn't the case.  Just my opinion, but don't see what's in it for the WCC to allow them to stick around sans men's hoops.

[keefe]

I don't know and that's why I'm asking as you seem to be implying it's all but a done deal other than some logistics.  If I'm the WCC, I can't for the life of me figure out why I would let Gonzaga play in all sports but basketball.  Makes no sense.

What I know is what I have been told by a protégé of the Zags project point man. The Zags have been approached and asked to come back with terms of engagement. Gonzaga is ready to say yes for BB but needs to sort out other sports. I have no idea where that is but they are looking at some or all joining the new league. That is what I understand to be the case at this point in time. But I have it on very good authority that they are in for BB. Personally I welcome their joining in any form, much more so than the Daytons of the world.

[bilsu]

Nice.. found this map to help out as well.. all div 1 basketball programs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Cbd1.PNG

This is a very cool map. My conclusion after looking at this map is that the travel issue would not be Gonzaga's, because they are going to be traveling a great distance no matter what. The issue will be whether the other C7 teams will want to travel to Spokane.

[MU82]

I don't think Gonzaga is going to agree with you on that.

14 straight NCAA tournament appearances without the Catholic 7 and just the little, teeny, tiny, WCC.

They will be just fine without the C7.  I've asked the question here and no one has stepped up to answer it yet.

For Gonzaga, I doubt it is about their ability to get to the NCAAs or even the overall success of their program. They surely are confident that they will win regardless of where they play.

For them -- as for Marquette, as for Maryland, as for Notre Dame, as for every-freakin'-body, it is about the money.

If they determine that, after all expenses, they would be net financial winners by coming aboard to the C7, they will try to do just that. If they determine it's a losing proposition, they won't bother.

We are overthinking this. When in doubt, follow the money.

And remember: As soon as anybody in sports (a university president, a coach, a pro athlete, anybody!) says "It's not about the money," that translates to only one thing:

IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT THE MONEY!

[GOO]

Having another anchor school is worth some money, in my opinion.  Gonzaga has success, a name, and commitment.  They can add some non-conference games with WCC schools and others out west to keep the WCC happy and to keep a west coast presence.  The new conference  will open up new recruiting grounds for Ganzaga.  It could be great for them and the conference.

How much can it cost others financially, I'm not sure, but this should be worked out if it doesn't hurt financially too much.  I don't think it has to be a financial value add, just not financially too detrimental.

Another anchor school's importance cannot be over looked.  Adding the Zags, Xavier, Butler makes one heck of a conference.  I sure hope this doesn't get dismissed by the C7 if it isn't a financial value add.  That is the wrong way to look at this add.  Go to 10 and then wait to add the next 2 or 4 over time (VCU, SLU, Creighton, or another team in the west).

[ChicosBailBonds]

What I know is what I have been told by a protégé of the Zags project point man. The Zags have been approached and asked to come back with terms of engagement. Gonzaga is ready to say yes for BB but needs to sort out other sports. I have no idea where that is but they are looking at some or all joining the new league. That is what I understand to be the case at this point in time. But I have it on very good authority that they are in for BB. Personally I welcome their joining in any form, much more so than the Daytons of the world.

I have no doubt in what you are saying.  I think the C7 would be foolish not to approach them. I also think Gonzaga would be foolish not proactively reach out, which rumors are they have.  I'm merely commenting on the other aspects of it....the WCC, the other sports, the travel, etc. 

[Aughnanure]

This is a very cool map. My conclusion after looking at this map is that the travel issue would not be Gonzaga's, because they are going to be traveling a great distance no matter what. The issue will be whether the other C7 teams will want to travel to Spokane.

This. They're already travelling far for every sport as it is.

[Lennys Tap]

For Gonzaga, I doubt it is about their ability to get to the NCAAs or even the overall success of their program. They surely are confident that they will win regardless of where they play.

For them -- as for Marquette, as for Maryland, as for Notre Dame, as for every-freakin'-body, it is about the money.

If they determine that, after all expenses, they would be net financial winners by coming aboard to the C7, they will try to do just that. If they determine it's a losing proposition, they won't bother.

We are overthinking this. When in doubt, follow the money.

And remember: As soon as anybody in sports (a university president, a coach, a pro athlete, anybody!) says "It's not about the money," that translates to only one thing:

IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT THE MONEY!

You've "stepped up" and given the 100% accurate answer. Pay the man, Shirley.

[keefe]

I have no doubt in what you are saying.  I think the C7 would be foolish not to approach them. I also think Gonzaga would be foolish not proactively reach out, which rumors are they have.  I'm merely commenting on the other aspects of it....the WCC, the other sports, the travel, etc. 

The Bottom Line in this case is very much the Bottom Line. Zags get a lot more than better TV revenues. This leverages their already solid brand in many ways and that delivers multiple incremental revenue streams. Their objective is improving BB which will improve their Bottom Line. The C7 does that.

As for travel costs for BB, look at their current mileage. Joining the C7 is not that much more. Look at their non-conf schedule. It is aggressive and national. Joining the C7 allows them to play more cupcakes at home since conf play addresses RPI issues.

Zags are in for BB. And that is good for Marquette.