A little birdie heard....

[MU82]

The silliest thing in this thread is the suggestion that Butler is toast the second Stevens leaves for a better job.

Um ... how about if Butler hires an even better coach/recruiter/personality? It happens all the time. Hell, it happened at Marquette after a certain tanned wonder left.

Only a goofball would choose or not choose a program based on who might or might not be coaching there 1, 3, 5 or 10 years down the line.

[Goose]

MU82

All I suggest on Butler is the odds are stacked against him when it is time for new hire. I would be very patient as AD before I hooked up the train to Butler. They are going nowhere and that conversation can be had down the road to add them or not.

Honestly I would be working every backroom deal I could with elite conference and see what falls out. Odds might not be good for hitching on with ACC, Big 10 or other top conference but I think it is worth every ounce of energy. We have a fallback plan and that is great. I am pretty sure GU is looking at this as fallback plan and I agree with that thought process.

[tower912]

Goose, the B1G, ACC, B12, and SEC are not coming calling.   They look at the hybrid concept of the BEast as a cautionary tale, not as something to be emulated.    This is the right move for MU and the rest of the C7.   Grab Butler, X, and either 1 or 3 more.   That gives markets, stability, product, and freedom from the vicissitudes of football re-alignment.   There are no backroom deals. 

[GGGG]

Goose, the B1G, ACC, B12, and SEC are not coming calling.   They look at the hybrid concept of the BEast as a cautionary tale, not as something to be emulated.    This is the right move for MU and the rest of the C7.   Grab Butler, X, and either 1 or 3 more.   That gives markets, stability, product, and freedom from the vicissitudes of football re-alignment.   There are no backroom deals. 

Exactly.  If it hasn't happened already with Georgetown, it certainly won't happen with Marquette.  People need to get the basketball-only idea out of their head.  It makes no sense.

[GGGG]

The silliest thing in this thread is the suggestion that Butler is toast the second Stevens leaves for a better job.

Um ... how about if Butler hires an even better coach/recruiter/personality? It happens all the time. Hell, it happened at Marquette after a certain tanned wonder left.

Only a goofball would choose or not choose a program based on who might or might not be coaching there 1, 3, 5 or 10 years down the line.

Butler has had a sustained run with Collier, Matta, Licklighter and Stevens.  There is no reason to suggest that wouldn't continue, especially since the school site in the middle of a talent-rich state.  Furthermore, if Stevens hasn't left before, he certainly is going to look twice when the school is part of the C7.

[Tony Two Times]

Butler has had a sustained run with Collier, Matta, Licklighter and Stevens.  There is no reason to suggest that wouldn't continue, especially since the school site in the middle of a talent-rich state.  Furthermore, if Stevens hasn't left before, he certainly is going to look twice when the school is part of the C7.

Both Butler and Gonzaga have had sustained success since 1997. And yet you denigrate the Zags while praise Butler. Facts can hurt. facts can hurt.

[MU82]

Butler has had a sustained run with Collier, Matta, Licklighter and Stevens.  There is no reason to suggest that wouldn't continue, especially since the school site in the middle of a talent-rich state.  Furthermore, if Stevens hasn't left before, he certainly is going to look twice when the school is part of the C7.

Excellent points, Sultan.

Ignoring Butler because Stevens might leave would have been like the Big East not inviting Marquette because Crean might leave.

[Tony Two Times]

Excellent points, Sultan.

Ignoring Butler because Stevens might leave would have been like the Big East not inviting Marquette because Crean might leave.

Ignoring the Zags cause Few might leave would be the same. Would be the same.

[GGGG]

I never denigrated Gonzaga Warthog.  But I am not going to sing the praises of a Gonzaga as if that's the ticket to conference success.  That has been my point from the beginning of this debate...simply having Dayton doesn't make the C7 "mid-major" versus having the Zags.

Furthermore I will point out that Butler's success (and Xaviers) has been much greater than Gonzaga's over the past decade.

[Tugg Speedman]

If Stevens is destined to replace Coach K at Duke, Butler cannot stop him.

But if Butler is elevated to the C7, and the C7 is considered a high major conference, then Stevens list of schools he bolts to shrinks a lot. 

If the C7 is "real" then Stevens might not look at Purdue if they fire Painter after more struggles or Louisville when Rick has bent his last waitress over a table.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Blind resume should be an insightful exercise when discussing programs who are good gets for the new conference, and programs who are horrible mid-majors who will only drag the league down.

Program A
KenPom Rank: 45
All-time NCAA Appearances: 7
NCAA Appearances since 1990: 5
Sweet 16 Appearances: 2
NCAA Tournament record: 4-7
Enrollment: 13,785
Basketball arena capacity: 10,600

Program B
KenPom Rank: 42
All-time NCAA Appearances: 7
NCAA Appearances since 1990: 5
Sweet 16 Appearances: 2
NCAA Tournament record: 3-7
Enrollment: 4,000
Basketball arena capacity: 3,500

So who brings more to the table? Pretty similar resumes? Well, Program A is Saint Louis, and Program B is St. Mary's.

So if you think St. Mary's would make a great travel partner for Gonzaga in the new league, but think Saint Louis is a mid-major who will drag down the whole conference, you must concede that being a travel partner for Gonzaga is the ONLY thing that St. Mary's brings to the table that SLU doesn't.

[GGGG]

Another excellent point...and I'm not sure how useful it is for a school in Spokane to have a travel partner in the Bay Area.

[Lennys Tap]

Butler has had a sustained run with Collier, Matta, Licklighter and Stevens.  There is no reason to suggest that wouldn't continue, especially since the school site in the middle of a talent-rich state.  Furthermore, if Stevens hasn't left before, he certainly is going to look twice when the school is part of the C7.

Butler's "sustained" run with Collier, Matta and Licklighter: 6 NCAA appearances in 18 years, 5 NCAA wins. Stevens: 4 NCAA appearances in 5 years, 11 NCAA wins. That's slightly above average mid major to a powerhouse.

Gonzaga has made 14 straight NCAA tournaments and in that time has 17 tournament wins - borderline elite, most consistent program this side of Duke.

Conclusion: Butler is elite with Stevens but was never anything like that before. Gonzaga was Elite 8 the year before Few (Monson) and 14 years of actual sustained excellence make it more likely (IMO) that Few stays put - and that if he doesn't the Zags are on firmer ground than the Bulldogs.

If I'm the C7, these 2 (with Xavier) are my top 3 targets and #4 isn't close.

[🏀]

Another excellent point...and I'm not sure how useful it is for a school in Spokane to have a travel partner in the Bay Area.

They're only 900 miles apart, makes total sense.

Might as well invite New Orleans to be Marquette's travel partner.

[Lennys Tap]

They're only 900 miles apart, makes total sense.

Might as well invite New Orleans to be Marquette's travel partner.

I think we can all agree that St Mary's isn't a logical "travel partner" for Gonzaga.

My question is why the frack does Gonzaga need a "travel partner" to join the C7?

[Aughnanure]

MU82

All I suggest on Butler is the odds are stacked against him when it is time for new hire. I would be very patient as AD before I hooked up the train to Butler. They are going nowhere and that conversation can be had down the road to add them or not.

Honestly I would be working every backroom deal I could with elite conference and see what falls out. Odds might not be good for hitching on with ACC, Big 10 or other top conference but I think it is worth every ounce of energy. We have a fallback plan and that is great. I am pretty sure GU is looking at this as fallback plan and I agree with that thought process.

Stop this stupid dream. It's amazing how everyone here says MU is "big time" or "major" or whatever but apparently can't stand the idea of joining a conference with a bunch of Marquette-level programs.

Stop crapping on this conference simply because it doesn't include who ESPN college football analysts tells you who's mportant.

[🏀]

I think we can all agree that St Mary's isn't a logical "travel partner" for Gonzaga.

My question is why the frack does Gonzaga need a "travel partner" to join the C7?

Agreed. Plane flight is a plane flight. Who cares about wb extra hour.

[Aughnanure]

I think we can all agree that St Mary's isn't a logical "travel partner" for Gonzaga.

My question is why the frack does Gonzaga need a "travel partner" to join the C7?

Agreed. It's not like WCC is made up of a bunch of schools within driving distance. They have to fly everywhere.

Though I do think they'll have to go divisions though (at least for scheduling) to mitigate the amount of cross-country trips.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I think we can all agree that St Mary's isn't a logical "travel partner" for Gonzaga.

My question is why the frack does Gonzaga need a "travel partner" to join the C7?

For non-revenue sports coming from the East. St. Mary's on Thursday or Friday and Spokane on Saturday or Sunday. One charter plane, minimal disruption, one set of tutors and training staff, lower costs. For example, Syracuse and Milwaukee are travel partners now in the BE. So, if Gonzaga added for hoops and others then it makes more economic and SA sense to add another Western school in the same time zone.

Not to mention it opens up the Bay Area for media, time zone games, and sports and admissions recruiting presence.  That is why you need a travel partner...to again keep non-revenue costs down to not bleed the hoops program more than it does.  In the current BE, Seton Hall, SJU, Rutgers, UCONN could be paired...as can Pitt and Nova or Temple...UND and DePaul were paired. That is the frack why.

[buckchuckler]

Spot on analysis.  No reason to think that Gonzaga makes the conference significantly better than Dayton would.

Except in terms of quality of the basketball.  But that can't matter all that much right?

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Agreed. It's not like WCC is made up of a bunch of schools within driving distance. They have to fly everywhere.

Though I do think they'll have to go divisions though (at least for scheduling) to mitigate the amount of cross-country trips.

Not if it's a geographically compact league. IMHO there's very little to be gained by this league going west of Omaha. More blind resume time!

Program A
NCAA Appearances: 14
Sweet 16s: 6
NCAA Record: 14-16
Nielsen Market: 63
Enrollment: 10,068
Basketball arena capacity: 13,435

Program B
NCAA Appearances: 15
Sweet 16s: 5
NCAA Record: 17-15
Nielsen Market: 73
Enrollment: 7,764
Basketball arena capacity: 6,000



Program A is Dayton, and Program B is Gonzaga.

[tower912]

Go Dayton!

[Goose]

Aughnanure

I dream in the daytime and will continue doing so. MU has had stumbling blocks in the past a strong leadership made for positive steps forward. I am not going to sit back in MU basketball discussion and go along with the best option in bad case situation. You can chase mid majors and that is your right, but please do not bash me because I hold MU in high regard. If you think SLU, Dayton, Butler and Creighton's of the world are on par programs that is where our disagreement starts.

Funny thing is I said months ago MU knows their fan base and I would say you are target backer of the program. I will support MU regardless of conference but not ready to throw white towel in the air and jump in mid major conference. Trust me...I have dreamed my life and not going to stop today.

Merry Christmas!!

[bilsu]

YEAH, IT WOULD BE MUCH BETTER IF WE WERE IN A CONFERENCE WITH HOUSTON AND SMU!!!  THEY PLAY FOOTBALL YOU KNOW!!!!

WORRY, WORRY, WORRY....

I think you are missing the big picture. The C7 does not need football to be a very good basketball conference. However, the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 10 and ACC will always be considered a cut above the C7 even if the C7 has better basketball. These conferences get a tremendous amount of TV exposure during the first 2 /1/2 months of football season, while the C7 will be getting none. While Big East football was never something I got excited about, at least the football gave them some TV exposure.

[Aughnanure]

For non-revenue sports coming from the East. St. Mary's on Thursday or Friday and Spokane on Saturday or Sunday. One charter plane, minimal disruption, one set of tutors and training staff, lower costs. For example, Syracuse and Milwaukee are travel partners now in the BE. So, if Gonzaga added for hoops and others then it makes more economic and SA sense to add another Western school in the same time zone.


Not to mention it opens up the Bay Area for media, time zone games, and sports and admissions recruiting presence.  That is why you need a travel partner...to again keep non-revenue costs down to not bleed the hoops program more than it does.  In the current BE, Seton Hall, SJU, Rutgers, UCONN could be paired...as can Pitt and Nova or Temple...UND and DePaul were paired. That is the frack why.

Whip I agreed that Gonzaga doesn't "Need" a Trevor partner, I agree expanding west does present some valuable opportunities - especially for TV.

St. Mary's, LMU, San Fran, BYU and Pepperdine all could be viable. But I still see this expansion (incl Gonzaga) as a something that is down the road.