A little birdie heard....

[GGGG]

since not having football will always make us a second rate conference.

YEAH, IT WOULD BE MUCH BETTER IF WE WERE IN A CONFERENCE WITH HOUSTON AND SMU!!!  THEY PLAY FOOTBALL YOU KNOW!!!!

WORRY, WORRY, WORRY....

[Chili]

Spot on analysis.  No reason to think that Gonzaga makes the conference significantly better than Dayton would.

you're both forgetting the biggest thing which is national eyeballs. Gonzaga routinely is one of the top selling hoops only collegiate brands in the country often outselling everyone except Georgetown (Marquette and Nova are the other schools that make the top 75 on a regular basis). Gonzaga is a national brand - Dayton is nice regional one. Butler is a national brand. Xavier is close to a national brand. This is what is important.

[GGGG]

you're both forgetting the biggest thing which is national eyeballs. Gonzaga routinely is one of the top selling hoops only collegiate brands in the country often outselling everyone except Georgetown (Marquette and Nova are the other schools that make the top 75 on a regular basis). Gonzaga is a national brand - Dayton is nice regional one. Butler is a national brand. Xavier is close to a national brand. This is what is important.

Really?  Seriously?  Tell me how good the WCC television contract is.  Yeah, they sure bring a lot of eyes to the television because I have no trouble catching those Portland v. Pepperdine match ups on ESPN.

They are SUCH a national brand.  They are DRIVING eyeballs to the television for those battles against the mighty Dons of San Francisco!!!!!

[Tugg Speedman]

Really?  Seriously?  Tell me how good the WCC television contract is.  Yeah, they sure bring a lot of eyes to the television because I have no trouble catching those Portland v. Pepperdine match ups on ESPN.

They are SUCH a national brand.  They are DRIVING eyeballs to the television for those battles against the mighty Dons of San Francisco!!!!!

So you would argue that ND is not a national brand because they play in South Bend and Joyce Center barely hold 10,000.

[GGGG]

So you would argue that ND is not a national brand because they play in South Bend and Joyce Center barely hold 10,000.

So you would agree with me that the sky is orange and I piss Jack Daniels.

(See, I can make irrelevant statements too!!!)

[Chili]

Really?  Seriously?  Tell me how good the WCC television contract is.  Yeah, they sure bring a lot of eyes to the television because I have no trouble catching those Portland v. Pepperdine match ups on ESPN.

They are SUCH a national brand.  They are DRIVING eyeballs to the television for those battles against the mighty Dons of San Francisco!!!!!

Who said anything about WCC? I was talking about individual brands. Gonzaga is a national brand. Why do you think they get nationally televised games in the non conference?

You obviously do not understand the basis of marketing so I am not going to go into it, but you can read the rankings here of merchandise sales which is great measure of brand health (also means that people probably are going tune in watch them and advertisers will pay to be part of): http://www.clc.com/News/Archived-Rankings.aspx

This league needs the best hoops brands possible. Gonzaga is a premiere brand. Dayton, SLU & VCU are not.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So you would agree with me that the sky is orange and I piss Jack Daniels.

(See, I can make irrelevant statements too!!!)

Dude, if you can piss Jack Daniels I have an order I'd like to submit.   

[GGGG]

Who said anything about WCC? I was talking about individual brands. Gonzaga is a national brand. Why do you think they get nationally televised games in the non conference?

Because they play a marquee non conference schedule.  Every game MU plays against a decent team is on ESPN too.  They don't add a great deal of value to their conference television contract.  What make you think they would add significant value to this new conference?  Because they are a "national brand?"

Yeah, because I see Gonzaga gear all over the place.  It's all people can talk about around the water cooler...Zags basketball.

Some people have no clue....

[Chili]

Because they play a marquee non conference schedule.  Every game MU plays against a decent team is on ESPN too.  They don't add a great deal of value to their conference television contract.  What make you think they would add significant value to this new conference?  Because they are a "national brand?"

Yeah, because I see Gonzaga gear all over the place.  It's all people can talk about around the water cooler...Zags basketball.

Some people have no clue....

Yes, you don't....you take it like you are the marketing / advertising savant who knows all but is really just throwing crap against solid numbers because he doesn't like what he sees. If you had an actually argument based on merit and fact rather opinion people might actually respect what you have to say on this topic. But rather, you come off looking like a person saying "no no you're wrong because I said so".

If Gonzaga wasn't a national brand they wouldn't be consistently in the top 75 schools in merchandise sales which typically only has 3-4 (if that) basketball only ones in it. Sorry my facts disprove your opinion.

[GGGG]

Chili...you have no clue.

If Gonzaga was such a national brand, and being top 75 in merchandise sales is no indication of that, they would be helping the WCC get a better television contract.  But they don't. 

Would they be a better addition than Dayton?  I have no idea.  Really only the conference and potential media partners know this for sure.  However the idea that Dayton makes the C7 a mid-major, while Gonzaga wouldn't, is a monumentally stupid thought.

[Tugg Speedman]

Yes, you don't....you take it like you are the marketing / advertising savant who knows all but is really just throwing crap against solid numbers because he doesn't like what he sees. If you had an actually argument based on merit and fact rather opinion people might actually respect what you have to say on this topic. But rather, you come off looking like a person saying "no no you're wrong because I said so".

Chili, Sultan is a self-described Dick and all his posts are designed to prove that description correct.

[GGGG]

Chili, Sultan is a self-described Dick and all his posts are designed to prove that description correct.

Oh Another....you are so DAMN CUTE when you get pissy!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Dayton wears that mid-major cologne. That mid-major cologne. Who wants to breath that in?

Butler used to wear that cologne...so did Xavier...so did Gonzaga.  There will always be some people that label schools that way, while others will say Northwestern is all that even though they have never been to the NCAA tournament.  It's not about the conference they come from, it's about what they have done.

VCU seems committed, but it's a short run of committment so far. SLU has concerns, but if SLU and Dayton were to say they are willing to put $8 tp $10 million per year toward hoops, I would be fine adding them. It's ultimately about financial commitment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Depending on who they are talking to, yes the potential media partner might be giving input.  There is also the very real possibility they come up with a determined league and then shop their rights.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg.  Let's not forget that media partner has to pay the freight so although they want good schools in there that are going to help carry the day, they also don't want to over play their hand.

Goes both ways. 

[Tugg Speedman]

CBB:

What's your thought about Gonzaga as a National Brand?

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Yes, you don't....you take it like you are the marketing / advertising savant who knows all but is really just throwing crap against solid numbers because he doesn't like what he sees. If you had an actually argument based on merit and fact rather opinion people might actually respect what you have to say on this topic. But rather, you come off looking like a person saying "no no you're wrong because I said so".

If Gonzaga wasn't a national brand they wouldn't be consistently in the top 75 schools in merchandise sales which typically only has 3-4 (if that) basketball only ones in it. Sorry my facts disprove your opinion.

The facts you've offered are of course open to interpretation. You remark that "national brand" schools are on that list of merchandise suppliers, and Gonzaga's inclusion bolsters their reputation as a national brand. I look at the same list and see several schools who no one would confuse with "national brands" not only on the list, but ranked ahead of Gonzaga. Schools like East Carolina, Central Florida, Texas State-San Marcos, and Louisiana-Lafayette. Tends to undercut the point.

[GGGG]

The facts you've offered are of course open to interpretation. You remark that "national brand" schools are on that list of merchandise suppliers, and Gonzaga's inclusion bolsters their reputation as a national brand. I look at the same list and see several schools who no one would confuse with "national brands" not only on the list, but ranked ahead of Gonzaga. Schools like East Carolina, Central Florida, Texas State-San Marcos, and Louisiana-Lafayette. Tends to undercut the point.

TEXAS-SAN MARCOS IS THE KEY TO THE CONFERENCE!!!!

[The Equalizer]

Television Exposure
Spokane's Nielsen rating is 73. They would be the second-lowest-ranked television market in the league. (No listing given for Providence, RI, presumably because they are considered part of the Boston media market).

1- New York (St. John's/Seton Hall)
3- Chicago (DePaul)
4- Philadelphia (Villanova)
7- Boston (Providence)
8- Washington, DC (Georgetown)
21- St. Louis (SLU)
26- Indianapolis (Butler)
34- Milwaukee (Marquette)
35- Cincinnati (Xavier)
63- Dayton (Dayton)
73- Spokane (Gonzaga)
75- Omaha (Creighton)

FYI, Providence is the #52 market--not considered part of Boston.

[Tony Two Times]

So you would argue that ND is not a national brand because they play in South Bend and Joyce Center barely hold 10,000.

Why argue with Sultan. He's always right. He's always right.

[Tony Two Times]

you're both forgetting the biggest thing which is national eyeballs. Gonzaga routinely is one of the top selling hoops only collegiate brands in the country often outselling everyone except Georgetown (Marquette and Nova are the other schools that make the top 75 on a regular basis). Gonzaga is a national brand - Dayton is nice regional one. Butler is a national brand. Xavier is close to a national brand. This is what is important.

This is correct. Gonzaga is a national brand. Anyhow, the Capo di tutti capi of ESPN will manage the velvet rope. That says Gonzaga is in. Gonzaga is in.

[🏀]

This is correct. Gonzaga is a national brand. Anyhow, the Capo di tutti capi of ESPN will manage the velvet rope. That says Gonzaga is in. Gonzaga is in.

ESPN and the C7 are not even in discussions.

[Tony Two Times]

Who said anything about WCC? I was talking about individual brands. Gonzaga is a national brand. Why do you think they get nationally televised games in the non conference?

You obviously do not understand the basis of marketing so I am not going to go into it, but you can read the rankings here of merchandise sales which is great measure of brand health (also means that people probably are going tune in watch them and advertisers will pay to be part of): http://www.clc.com/News/Archived-Rankings.aspx

This league needs the best hoops brands possible. Gonzaga is a premiere brand. Dayton, SLU & VCU are not.

Well said. But you aint ever gonna change da know it all compare, capisce?

[brewcity77]

If Gonzaga was such a national brand, and being top 75 in merchandise sales is no indication of that, they would be helping the WCC get a better television contract.  But they don't.

Would they be a better addition than Dayton?  I have no idea.  Really only the conference and potential media partners know this for sure.  However the idea that Dayton makes the C7 a mid-major, while Gonzaga wouldn't, is a monumentally stupid thought.

First of all, when Gonzaga plays a marquee non-con schedule and gets on ESPN, that proves they ARE a national brand. Why? Because ESPN puts teams with national drawing power in those games. You don't see us playing Savannah State on national TV, even though they were conference champs last year. Gonzaga is absolutely a national brand as shown by their merchandise sales and presence on ESPN in November and December.

Talking about the WCC contract is a completely different topic. The reason Gonzaga gets on TV in the non-con is because they are a national brand playing against other national brands. They get on when they play Illinois, or K-State, or Notre Dame, or Butler. But the WCC doesn't have any other schools of that level. St. Mary's is it. How do you get a better TV contract, a national TV contract, when you have virtually no marketable content to sell? Why can't you see Portland/Pepperdine? Because the rest of that league sucks, and having one good school isn't enough to get the entire league a contract.

Put Gonzaga in a conference where they are playing Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, St. John's, Xavier, and Butler on a weekly basis and they will draw eyes. Add in late-night tip-offs for triple-headers and you will increase the value of your content. Anyone acting like Gonzaga doesn't add value is being silly, and anyone with half a brain knows they add far more value than Dayton. How do I know this? Because when Gonzaga plays a Big East school in December it's on ESPN and when Dayton plays a Big East school in December it's on WHIO-7. The question is do they add ENOUGH value to offset the travel costs and time loss that both basketball and non-revenue sports will have to overcome in order to make those travels?

I don't know the answer to that. If the ADs and networks determine the answer to be yes, then by all means add Gonzaga. As for the ADs, Gonzaga's should be the main one involved in that decision as it impacts his SAs the most. But let's not pretend Dayton and Gonzaga on a marketing scale are somehow a wash. That's kooky talk.

[GGGG]

brew, I am not arguing with any of that except for the "national brand" nonsense.  My main complaint is this bizarre notion that Dayton makes the conference mid-major while Gonzaga doesn't.  Gonzaga is pretty much the definition of mid-major.  They play in a mid-major conference.  They play in a mid-major gym.  Now, they are a good mid-major program....but they are a mid-major nevertheless.

If the powers that be decide to add Dayton for whatever reason, then Dayton is fine.  Between the C7, Xavier and Butler, you have enough firepower to overcome whatever baggage Dayton brings.

[Dr. Blackheart]

As I said before, I am of the mind that 14 teams are added eventually. If the brand of the conference is hoops, then the Zags are going to be insisted on by any media partner. As it is, the Zags are on The Mothership 16 times this season. If the Big East blows up, and the A10, MVC and the WCC are stripped of their best teams, you start to get the Mothership to pay a bit more attention and up the bidding war with Fox and NBC for their former most-valuable content. Let's face it, the Zags have been the best hoops team west of Lawrence KS recently,with UCLA, USC, UW and AZ being down for some time.  SDS, BYU, Colorado are basically it...with St. Mary's who will need to be added as a travel partner.  

The new Conference needs media content...and other Olympic sports teams. Heck, St. Mary's even has a women's lacrosse team. Say what you will, but teams like VCU, Dayton, Creighton, etc. add much needed non-revenue sport depth as well...not for a network but for reputation and to stem image/prestige loss or even add streaming content. If you forget these sports, they will bleed hoops even more. MU's women's basketball actually makes a profit, for example, and recruiting will suffer. Some of the hoops schools proposed significantly lower RPI's in these other sports to the point where the new conference would actually be a LOW major at 10 teams in the other sports.

Plenty of things to be settled...better to add slowly...but it starts with the media deal...and ends with the loose ends not even being discussed yet.