A little birdie heard....

[Litehouse]

Bring in X and Butler and keep it at 9 for now.  The fact we're struggling to find a consensus beyond that is a strong sign we should just leave it at that.

[4everwarriors]

Thanks for the input, guy who registered 20 minutes ago.

Speaking of that, what name is Canadian Dimes goin' by these days?

[ATL MU Warrior]

You can be assured ZERO fear on this front. Simply stating a fact, both on business and basketball side of a conference that includes the schools mentioned. If you get excited over those names it tells me the race has been run and most are hoping for making best out of situation. I still have hope that we do better than the making the best out of a situation.

What's your solution?  What else can MU do but make the best out of a sh!tty situation created by this whole conference realignment mess when we don't have the sport that's driving the bus? 

[🏀]

I love everyone saying adding Creighton or SLU is making it mid-major.

Who will determine that major this conference is? The networks, and if Pete Thamel's reports are correct, we will be increasing our TV revenue with this new league.

The A-10 is a mid-major with their $300k/school TV deal.

[Mufflers]

Bring in X and Butler and keep it at 9 for now.  The fact we're struggling to find a consensus beyond that is a strong sign we should just leave it at that.

I agree with this.  What's the rush to add more than two teams?  A 16 game home-and-home is a solid schedule.  We can get an alliance with another league to give each weekends spare team somebody to play.  Dayton, Creighton, SLU, and VCU will still be out there for the taking in a few years.  My dream scenario is that the ACC or Big 12 break up, Duke or Kansas disband football and join the basketball conference.  Who knows what the football landscape will look like in 10 years?

[KenoshaWarrior]

I love everyone saying adding Creighton or SLU is making it mid-major.

Who will determine that major this conference is? The networks, and if Pete Thamel's reports are correct, we will be increasing our TV revenue with this new league.

The A-10 is a mid-major with their $300k/school TV deal.

This mid major talk is ridiculous. Im going to give you a few a teams and your going to tell me who the "Mid Major" is

Auburn, Creighton, Washington State, Northwestern, Providence....... 

Creighton would kick the crap out of those teams year in and year out yet some of you idiots think they are the mid major

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Would like to see someone like VCU only because if it's about basketball I don't want to see it end up all catholic schools plus Butler.  

[TheTulsaWarrior]

Everything on signing a TV deal ASAP that has 2-3 M$ per school.  That will solidify the conference.  My bet is a deal that will make the league the enter piece for one of the upstart all sports cable channels -- Fox or NBC are the most likely.

[muguru]

Man, a lot of hate for Dayton.  46th in all-time wins (we are 45th), 27th in attendance last year, $423 million endownment.

I am not saying they should be top of the list but they have to be a candidiate.

Why?? This should be additions by "what have you done for me lately". What kind of success has Dayton had lately?? I don't care about their attendance or anything else. I care about the product they put on the floor and Dayton and SLU's product stinks. Dayton has only made back to back NCAA tourneys twice since 1980..and have never made it more then two years in a row. Not good enough. SLU made it last year, ok, but where is their consistency??

[🏀]

This mid major talk is ridiculous. Im going to give you a few a teams and your going to tell me who the "Mid Major" is

Auburn, Creighton, Washington State, Northwestern, Providence....... 

Creighton would kick the crap out of those teams year in and year out yet some of you idiots think they are the mid major

Pretty sure we're on the same page.

[Benny B]

Again I will ask for the definition of a "mid-major" and why it's being used exclusively as a pejorative term.

[🏀]

Again I will ask for the definition of a "mid-major" and why it's being used exclusively as a pejorative term.

I believe because it infers the conference is not in the top tier, but yet a middle tier.

Marquette should be in the top tier with the top tier basketball schools, not that I agree with a lot that is being said.

[GGGG]

Again I will ask for the definition of a "mid-major" and why it's being used exclusively as a pejorative term.

Exactly right.  Again, this will be the best basketball conference that doesn't sponsor football.  That is really the best we can hope for.  If someone wants to label it mid-major, but each school still manages to get $2-3M per year for TV rights, then I don't care what they call it.

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

I agree with this.  What's the rush to add more than two teams?  A 16 game home-and-home is a solid schedule.  We can get an alliance with another league to give each weekends spare team somebody to play.  Dayton, Creighton, SLU, and VCU will still be out there for the taking in a few years.  My dream scenario is that the ACC or Big 12 break up, Duke or Kansas disband football and join the basketball conference.  Who knows what the football landscape will look like in 10 years?

Now is probably the time to point out that the last team presently in a BCS conference to dissolve their previously Division I football program was Marquette in 1960.

St. John's dissolved their football program in 2002, and Seton Hall dissolved their program in 1981. However, Seton Hall was Division III, and St. John's was FCS-level.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Kansas or Duke or Wake Forest dissolving football, and football dollars earned just by being a doormat in a BCS-level conference to join our wee league.

[GGGG]

I agree with this.  What's the rush to add more than two teams?  A 16 game home-and-home is a solid schedule.  We can get an alliance with another league to give each weekends spare team somebody to play.  Dayton, Creighton, SLU, and VCU will still be out there for the taking in a few years.  

Because the more teams you have, the more product you generate.  The question is at what level does the $$$ from increased product produce diminishing marginal returns.  Im pretty sure those questions are being addressed right now.  Simply put, if they can make more money per school with 12 teams, then you have 12 teams.

My dream scenario is that the ACC or Big 12 break up, Duke or Kansas disband football and join the basketball conference.  Who knows what the football landscape will look like in 10 years?

Yeah and as with most dreams, you need to wake up soon.

[🏀]

Now is probably the time to point out that the last team presently in a BCS conference to dissolve their previously Division I football program was Marquette in 1960.

St. John's dissolved their football program in 2002, and Seton Hall dissolved their program in 1981. However, Seton Hall was Division III, and St. John's was FCS-level.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Kansas or Duke or Wake Forest dissolving football, and football dollars earned just by being a doormat in a BCS-level conference to join our wee league.

Way ahead of the curve.

[Tony Two Times]

Would like to see someone like VCU only because if it's about basketball I don't want to see it end up all catholic schools plus Butler.  

I think we should add BYU. Add BYU. They have their own Borgata for football so the rest of their crew would fit nicely. Would fit nicely.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I think we should add BYU. Add BYU. They have their own Borgata for football so the rest of their crew would fit nicely. Would fit nicely.

Go away.  Go away.  Your little schtick is old. Your little schtick is old.

[TedBaxter]

Dayton beat Murray State yesterday.

If you take a conference of Butler, Creighton, Dayton, DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Saint Louis, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova and Xavier, you have all of your members of the top 112 programs in Ken Pom's latest rankings.  Not one of the BCS conferences can say that, so when you consider programs mid-major, just remember this.  Also, the lowest ranked members of this group in the rankings are DePaul and St. John's.

[esotericmindguy]

....from a significant booster that Xavier, Creighton, SLU and Butler are most definitely getting invites. Attendance is a slight concern with the new league relative to what we have had in the BE. From what I have heard, MU is not necessarily the leader in all of this mess because the source (OK...Larry WILLIAMS)...didnt have all the answers. There is a slight amount of concern that GU doesnt have two feet in....but they have no where else to go. SJU and GU are working hard to secure long term OOC agreements with Syracuse. Some of the "other" schools dont like that effort.

So your birdie buddy donates some money and knows the future of Marquette's fate 3 years from now?

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

Just a few thoughts on Gonzaga. There's this line out there that Gonzaga is somehow an elite-level program, but there's certainly an argument to be made as far as what they add to the conference.


Team Success
Yes, Gonzaga makes the tournament a lot, but let's have some perspective. The Bulldogs have only made it past the first weekend once in the last 6 years.

Ticket sales
Gonzaga's home arena is the McCarthy Athletic Center, and with a capacity of 6,000, it would be the smallest main men's basketball arena in the league. Here are some schools that have been tossed around by one thread or another.

20,308- Verizon Center (Georgetown)
20,238- Wells Fargo Center (Villanova)
19,033- Madison Square Garden (St. John's)
18,850- Bradley Center (Marquette)
18,711- Prudential Center (Seton Hall)
18,320- CenturyLink Center (Creighton)
17,500- Allstate Arena (DePaul)
13,435- UD Arena (Dayton)
12,400- Dunkin Donuts Center (Providence)
10,600- Chaifetz Arena (Saint Louis)
10,250- Cintas Center (Xavier)
10,000- Hinkle Fieldhouse (Butler)
 9,071- Robins Center (Richmond)
 7,617- Stuart C. Siegel Center (Virginia Commonwealth)
 6,500- The Pavilion (Villanova)
6,000- McCarthy Athletic Center (Gonzaga)
 5,602- Carnesecca Arena (St. John's)
 4,000- Al McGuire Center (Marquette)
 3,000- Sullivan Athletic Center (DePaul)

Television Exposure
Spokane's Nielsen rating is 73. They would be the second-lowest-ranked television market in the league. (No listing given for Providence, RI, presumably because they are considered part of the Boston media market).

1- New York (St. John's/Seton Hall)
3- Chicago (DePaul)
4- Philadelphia (Villanova)
7- Boston (Providence)
8- Washington, DC (Georgetown)
21- St. Louis (SLU)
26- Indianapolis (Butler)
34- Milwaukee (Marquette)
35- Cincinnati (Xavier)
63- Dayton (Dayton)
73- Spokane (Gonzaga)
75- Omaha (Creighton)

Don't think of this just in play for television eyeballs. Think as far as ticket sales and corporate support. Yes, there are exceptions of small city teams attracting wide following and corporate support (the Packers, etc.) but they are the exception, not the rule.

Further, what does Gonzaga deliver exactly for television except 10PM East Coast tipoff times? If the league is 12 teams, it is very likely that 8 of the 12 teams will be based in the Eastern Time Zone (Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, Georgetown, Xavier, Butler, VCU/Dayton).

Distance
Gonzaga would face enormous travel costs to send not just its basketball team, but all its other teams to road games across the conference. Gonzaga's closest rival would likely be Creighton, a mere 1400 miles or so. The I-95 schools would likely be a four-to-six-hour plane ride each way, and each team would make several trips like that per year. Will Gonzaga be able to pay for that as a small school in a tiny market with a small basketball arena?

Travel Partners
I'm personally not a big believer in "travel partners" but you seem to need them in geographically spread conferences. If so, who are you going to grab out west? There's not a lot to pick from. If you're looking for the best basketball west of the Rockies, you're realistically looking at the WCC and nobody else. Despite its recent boost in reputation, the WCC is basically the west coast version of the A-10. A few decent programs at the top and 900 feet of pure s*** at the bottom.

BYU (9 NCAA appearances in last 13 years) is the prize pig, but they would be the only school with FBS football. Getting BYU would be a hail mary in every sense of the word.

St. Mary's College (7 NCAA appearances in school history). For perspective, much-maligned SLU has just as many, and both schools have 5 appearances since 1990. Dayton has 14 appearances all time. So St. Mary's has half the NCAA tournament success of Dayton, another non-favorite on this board.

San Francisco (17 NCAA appearances in school history, none in the last 14 years)
Pepperdine (12 NCAA appearances in school history, none in the last 10 years)
Santa Clara (11 NCAA appearances in school history, none in the last 16 years)
Loyola Marymount (5 NCAA appearances in school history. None in the last 22 years)
San Diego (4 NCAA appearances in school history. (One in the last 9 years)
Portland (2 NCAA appearances in school history. None in the last 16 years)

So long story short, unless you can get BYU, there's no "travel partner" for Gonzaga worth taking who's west of Omaha. It makes zero sense to grab Gonzaga if you're just going to water the conference lineup down with a travel partner for them, especially not St. Mary's.

Conclusion
Small gym, small city, no travel partners, too far, late tipoffs, season consistently over by St. Patrick's Day weekend. Gonzaga's not all it's cracked up to be.

[GGGG]

Spot on analysis.  No reason to think that Gonzaga makes the conference significantly better than Dayton would.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Media Partner decides the next 5-7 in.

[Tugg Speedman]

Media Partner decides the next 5-7 in.

100% correct.  ADs will ask the media partner, not decide.

[bilsu]

+1

C7 plus X, SLU! Creighton and Butler runs the risk of turning into a mid-major.

Need Gonzaga, VCU to ensue this inference can have 4+ bids.

I do not see how Gonzaga and VCU help at all given that the statement that Butler is nothing once
Stevens leaves would also aply to to VCU and Gonzaga. The conference is going to be slightly better than the Atlantic 10 is now. I suspect everyone here considers them mid-major and that may be. There is nothing we can do about it, since not having football will always make us a second rate conference.