This Board Is Not Melting Down After UWGB Loss, Have We All Really Given Up

[tower912]

A lot of assumptions were made.   JWilson would become Jae/Lazar/JFB.  Trent would become DJO.   Junior was going to make the next leap forward.   Jake Thomas could shoot.   Mayo would be here.   CO would be fully recovered.   DG would be able to play defense for all 30 minutes he would be on the floor.    The team would collectively be able to shoot 3's.    Right now, it feels like 2004 and 2005, without the two future NBA'ers.

[Golden Avalanche]

okay, as a recent graduate of 2012, I have yet to see Buzz lose to a team that he had no business losing too.  This is probably the first loss to a non power conference team at home in Buzz's tenure, Crean lost many of these games.  Im not worried, it was just a matter of time before this team lost to a team they should have beaten.  Lets all move on, and focus on the Big East Schedule.   

Did you just start watching Marquette this season?

Really?

Why would you overlook LSU and NC Central to the Big East season when we're following a squad that is impotent right now?

[Hards Alumni]

Maybe we're growing up and realizing that bad as this may be, it's still just one game.

We'll beat LSU Saturday. We'll be in the NCAAs in March. I always expected this game to be tough. 6 of Green Bay's 7 losses came away from the Resch. I still think that if Brown plays to form they'll be a strong contender for the Horizon title.

I'm on board.  I think that people are just a lot less likely to freak out.

Or the students are on break and aren't flooding the board with posts like, "OMG WE SUCK".

Look folks, the only thing that matters is getting into the tournament.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

One thing I was concerned with going into the season is that every player was stepping into a new role.

EVERYBODY is going to have to play better than last season for this team to be good.

With this said, I think it's reasonable to think that this could be an early season growing pain and this team could be playing well in March. The talent is there, but they are all going stepping up from role players/bench players to major contributors/bench players. It can be a little painful to watch.

There is reason for concern, but there is also reason for hope.

[connie]

There is, I believe, a realization that there are serious deficiencies on this team.  They may have the most top to bottom talent, but they lack the one or two players that make the whole so much better. There is no explosive DJ or Wes that can either hit a three or drive by you.  There is no outside threat, (no matter how much irrational lusting we express for Jake Thomas to come in and start draining 3's --face it--that's not going to happen), and that is going to allow defenses to sag on both post and perimeter players, decreasing both the impact of our slashers and our posts and taking away from whatever talent they have.  Far more sensibility here than on, say, a Bears fan board after they lose to the Packers (again).

[bilsu]

I think Buzz hit it on the head in his post game show a few games ago. He said "The good news is that there is very little drop off in talent from the starters to the subs". "The bad news is that there is very little drop off in talent from the starters to the subs." The fact is that most team's starters are as good as or better than ours, but most team's second teams cannot compete with our second team. That is why we see some of the lesser teams play us close for a long time and still end up losing to us. As fans we look at our depth and think we are talented. However, we are missing a DJO or Crowder that can put the team on their back to a win.

[Benny B]

In response to the OP, I purposely stay off this board for at least 12 hours following a loss, longer if it's truly devastating.  I must say that I'm disappointed with the sheer lack of leapers.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that most of us didn't actually witness what happened.

[GGGG]

There is, I believe, a realization that there are serious deficiencies on this team.  They may have the most top to bottom talent, but they lack the one or two players that make the whole so much better. There is no explosive DJ or Wes that can either hit a three or drive by you.  There is no outside threat, (no matter how much irrational lusting we express for Jake Thomas to come in and start draining 3's --face it--that's not going to happen), and that is going to allow defenses to sag on both post and perimeter players, decreasing both the impact of our slashers and our posts and taking away from whatever talent they have.  Far more sensibility here than on, say, a Bears fan board after they lose to the Packers (again).

This is exactly right.  Basketball isn't about 1-13 talent.  It is about top level talent.  And while this might be a real talented team depth wise, they don't have enough talent at the highest levels.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This is exactly right.  Basketball isn't about 1-13 talent.  It is about top level talent.  And while this might be a real talented team depth wise, they don't have enough talent at the highest levels.

Not yet we don't.

Guys are growing. There is no clear cut DJO or McNeal, but these guys can grow into really good players.

Some of them might not get there, some of them might surprise us.

[GGGG]

The problem Guns is that Junior is a senior.  How much can he really grow?  Vander is a junior and has grown a ton already, but how much can he grow?  Jamil, Trent, Davante....

Young teams grow....this isn't a young team.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The problem Guns is that Junior is a senior.  How much can he really grow?  Vander is a junior and has grown a ton already, but how much can he grow?  Jamil, Trent, Davante....

Young teams grow....this isn't a young team.

You're right, but I think the roles have significantly changed for each of the them, and this is an entirely new experience.

DJO and Jae bailed the team out of a lot of bad possessions and games last year. The current roster is going to have to learn that there is no DJO safety net anymore.

They have to be better than last year. They have to play "perfect". Rotations have to be quick, the extra pass has to be on time, shooters have to pull the trigger with confidence, post players have to score in traffic, etc. etc.

Realistically, they aren't "perfect", so this limits their upside, but I think they are capable of getting better as a group throughout the season.

Buzz will get into them over break and we'll see if they can be sharper in conference play.

I do think their ceiling is limited because they don't have a premium player, but I think they have enough talent to be a pretty good team.

I still love next years roster, but I would like to see more consistent scoring out of Vander and Jamil... which I think can still happen.

[mu_hilltopper]

For a while I've felt this season is just a long funeral.  

Obviously, the Big East is dying as we know it, and I'm just not optimistic Buzz will remain at MU after this year .. which means we'll lose big chunks of the awesome recruiting class too.  

Losing to UWGB?  Just chapter 4 of this year's funeral.

[brewcity77]

The problem Guns is that Junior is a senior.  How much can he really grow?  Vander is a junior and has grown a ton already, but how much can he grow?  Jamil, Trent, Davante....

Young teams grow....this isn't a young team.

It's not a young team, but the roles are radically different for many of these guys. Junior has always been a facilitator, and now he also has to be a creator. Blue has gone from fourth (or fifth) wheel to oft-times needing to be the star. Jamil was expected to go from role-player to do-it-all forward in the mold of Lazar, JFB, or Jae. Trent and Jake are on a completely different team. Juan went from 2 minutes of energy off the bench to double-digit minute starter. The only guys whose roles really didn't change were CO, DG, and DW, and they've giving us about what we'd hope for in expanded roles.

That's why I'm not panicking. The talent is there. It's going to take time, take bumps and bruises, and take some losses for this team to get to where they have the potential to be. Buzz has shown a solid ability to get his teams to figure it out by the time it really matters. I have no reason to expect this year will be different.

[JD]

Not really sure why people "can't wait for conference play"


Have you watched any MU games this year?  I don't think MU will be in the top half of the conference this year judging by the way they've played.

[Golden Avalanche]

This is exactly right.  Basketball isn't about 1-13 talent.  It is about top level talent.  And while this might be a real talented team depth wise, they don't have enough talent at the highest levels.

Do people truly believe this is a real talented team depth wise?

I know I missed a lot of the smoke session this summer but I never saw this team as that overly talented. But am I the only one? Is there an overwhelming feeling from MU fans that this is a team laden with talent, just not superstar talent?

[Blackhat]

For a while I've felt this season is just a long funeral.  

Obviously, the Big East is dying as we know it, and I'm just not optimistic Buzz will remain at MU after this year .. which means we'll lose big chunks of the awesome recruiting class too.  

Losing to UWGB?  Just chapter 4 of this year's funeral.

Somewhat my feelings as well. This is an odd season.  First, the team isn't very talented. In the past Buzz found a super talented JUCO to step right in, becoming a catalyst for a good season.   Paired with the schism from the off season, hard to be gung ho. 


Be a damn shame if we don't get to cheer on the Milw. boys McKay, Wilson, and Burton.

[tower912]

Do people truly believe this is a real talented team depth wise?

I know I missed a lot of the smoke session this summer but I never saw this team as that overly talented. But am I the only one? Is there an overwhelming feeling from MU fans that this is a team laden with talent, just not superstar talent?

This team has lots of talent.    It is missing a go-to stud.   Put Wes/Jae/JFB/Lazar/DJO on this team and there could be magic.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

Do people truly believe this is a real talented team depth wise?

I know I missed a lot of the smoke session this summer but I never saw this team as that overly talented. But am I the only one? Is there an overwhelming feeling from MU fans that this is a team laden with talent, just not superstar talent?

I think/thought it is a really deep team...more so this summer when TJT and Todd were here...on paper not a lot of weaknesses in match-up situations...and also situationally strong.  But, I did not think it was an overly talented basketball team--although Jamil and Vander do have elite athleticism.  And they have stepped up in parts.  What has surprised me?  MU has not been able to exploit its match-up strengths much (Wisconsin, USC and Butler were examples of plus games)...but have been really exposed where they don't have match-up strengths (Florida, UWG).  They and Buzz have not been able to hide that so far this season as was the case in past years...I thought with experience we had returning that the sum would be greater...but the lack of stars has exposed MU.

[Goose]

What we need is some good news. If we could get solid conference layout with starting dates and teams it would take some of the uncertainty out of the future. This season to me was going to be down year to some extent and next year would be exciting. Maybe Buzz can get a raise for Xmas and make everyone relax.

IMO MU needs Buzz more than ever going forward. Would love to see Buzz come out excited about new conference and the future. Deep down I think the new conference is rather depressing and some good news is needed.

[TexMex]

Maybe Buzz can get a raise for Xmas and make everyone relax.

That's just what we need.

"Our team isn't doing well"
"We're losing games"
"We should raise tuition again and give our coach more money..... again"

booooo garbage

[frozena pizza]

I think/thought it is a really deep team...more so this summer when TJT and Todd were here...on paper not a lot of weaknesses in match-up situations...and also situationally strong.  But, I did not think it was an overly talented basketball team--although Jamil and Vander do have elite athleticism.  And they have stepped up in parts.  What has surprised me?  MU has not been able to exploit its match-up strengths much (Wisconsin, USC and Butler were examples of plus games)...but have been really exposed where they don't have match-up strengths (Florida, UWG).  They and Buzz have not been able to hide that so far this season as was the case in past years...I thought with experience we had returning that the sum would be greater...but the lack of stars has exposed MU.

Yes, I think we have some very good athletes (Jamil and Vander in particular), but not necessarily a great basketball team.  Our PG makes too many mistakes, we do not have a consistent scorer or outside shooter.  Our bigs can be neutralized.  We are not able to get to the line much and when we do we are not able to convert.  The defense is not all bad, but there are lapses.  It's just a rebuilding year for us and there will be some growing pains.  I'm expecting that we will be middle to lower part of the of the Big East and play in the NIT.

[Dawson Rental]

Somewhat my feelings as well. This is an odd season.  First, the team isn't very talented. In the past Buzz found a super talented JUCO to step right in, becoming a catalyst for a good season.   Paired with the schism from the off season, hard to be gung ho. 


Be a damn shame if we don't get to cheer on the Milw. boys McKay, Wilson, and Burton.

It has loads more talent than the team in Lazar's senior year.

[tower912]

It has loads more talent than the team in Lazar's senior year.

But less 3 pt shooting.

[Dawson Rental]

That's just what we need.

"Our team isn't doing well"
"We're losing games"
"We should raise tuition again and give our coach more money..... again"

booooo garbage

Buzz is not paid with tuition dollars.

[akmarq]

Maybe it's because my first year at MU coincided with Buzz's first season, but I have no reason to doubt that there will be improvement going into and through the BE season.

MU has consistently disappointed in non-conference only to really turn it on at the end of the season. Are we as good as last year? Probably not. But there isn't a team in the country who can't lay an egg (pretty much everything that could go wrong did go wrong against UWGB) and every team has issues and weaknesses. While I agree that our strengths may not be as great as they were last year, it seems easy to highlight every weakness after a loss and conclude that we suck. This is not a good way to draw conclusions from a loss.

Learn from this. Improve. Hopefully the team now realizes that they will have to bring 100% to every game to win (as do 90% of teams in the NCAA).

I still think upper-middle of the conference and a tourament birth are very attainable. For those who think we finish in the bottom half and out of the tournament, I wonder what BE teams you put ahead of us?