If the Catholic 7 breaks from the Big East, who should be invited to join?

[Dish]

Not considering Gonzaga is small minded. You can't have a Catholic Conference focused on strictly basketball and not have Gonzaga. It's one thing if Gonzaga turns down the offer, but I strongly believe they would jump at the chance. Gonzaga as a university gets more eyeballs focused on it, more revenue than what they are getting from the WCC. Their university can build a national brand, they'd be crazy not to want to join.

This isn't 30 years ago, 20 years ago, times have changed. Hell, San Diego Friggin State was about to join the Big East, my god.

Whatever this new conference is going to be, it has to build a brand, it has to market itself. The C7, and in my opinion, add Gonzaga and Xavier, and that's it.

9 teams, true round robin 16 game schedule. From a TV contract standpoint, adding SLU, Creighton, Butler, etc, does nothing. Your name brand teams are the C7 and Gonzaga, Xavier adds a solid team.

Fewer teams=more TV revenue, and more NCAA units revenue.

[Warriors10]

Not considering Gonzaga is small minded. You can't have a Catholic Conference focused on strictly basketball and not have Gonzaga. It's one thing if Gonzaga turns down the offer, but I strongly believe they would jump at the chance. Gonzaga as a university gets more eyeballs focused on it, more revenue than what they are getting from the WCC. Their university can build a national brand, they'd be crazy not to want to join.

This isn't 30 years ago, 20 years ago, times have changed. Hell, San Diego Friggin State was about to join the Big East, my god.

Whatever this new conference is going to be, it has to build a brand, it has to market itself. The C7, and in my opinion, add Gonzaga and Xavier, and that's it.

9 teams, true round robin 16 game schedule. From a TV contract standpoint, adding SLU, Creighton, Butler, etc, does nothing. Your name brand teams are the C7 and Gonzaga, Xavier adds a solid team.

Fewer teams=more TV revenue, and more NCAA units revenue.

Fewer teams does not mean more TV revenue.  Gotta think on the margins bro.

The most interesting thing out of this is it will be a traveling conference tournament.

[brewcity77]

It's a bigger deal than you think.  True, they're flying already, but it's quick trips to Portland, San Fran, LA, all regional flights.  For kicks, compare the cost of a commercial ticket out of Spokane to San Diego -- their current far-flung conference affiliate -- against one from Spokane to D.C.  On average, that's a 60%-80% cost hike.  On top of that, would you want to endure a five-day, three-game, four hundred mile bus trip bookended by six-hour flights?  What are the odds they finish that swing 2-1 vs 1-2?  Same goes for the Midwest trip.  I just think at they end of the day when their president and AD look at the numbers, it'll be "Thanks, but no thanks."

60-80%? Not even close. Flights to San Diego run around $550-600. To DC it's around $750-800. That's a lot closer to 30% than it is to 80%. And something tells me they will have $2M reasons per year to make those trips. And I highly doubt the WCC TV deal comes anywhere close to what they'd get for joining us. Besides, we could always take them as a basketball-only member. It would more than balance out.

[Dish]

Fewer teams does not mean more TV revenue.  Gotta think on the margins bro.

The most interesting thing out of this is it will be a traveling conference tournament.

Huh?

TV Contract / Number of teams= Split per, it's rather simple.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Just looking at the UCONN blog comments from this story. Some of these comentors are hilariously hurt that the Catholic 7 arent letting them in as a first choice. Can you really blame us?

http://www.theuconnblog.com/2012/12/13/3762958/catholic-schools-leave-big-east-uconn-acc

[Warriors10]

Huh?

TV Contract / Number of teams= Split per, it's rather simple.

It's also rather simple that by adding the right team your TV contract can become larger and your payout can increase..

[Dish]

It's also rather simple that by adding the right team your TV contract can become larger and your payout can increase..

Ok, humor me. Who are you adding that is going to increase TV revenue?

[martyconlonontherun]

Huh?

TV Contract / Number of teams= Split per, it's rather simple.

ESPN/NBC would pay more for more games and content. Obviously, they get a discount as we add more teams.

Also, have to add in revenue from the NCAA tourney and it helps the conference when the good teams have bad years. If we squeeze an extra 2 teams into the tourney it diversifies the risk.

[Warriors10]

Ok, humor me. Who are you adding that is going to increase TV revenue?

I am just saying that fewer teams does not always equal more money.  None of us know what the C7 is being told on TV revenue prospects with different league models, so you don't know if you will get more money with a 9 team model than a 12 team model depending on what the teams are.

[martyconlonontherun]

I am just saying that fewer teams does not always equal more money.  None of us know what the C7 is being told on TV revenue prospects with different league models, so you don't know if you will get more money with a 9 team model than a 12 team model depending on what the teams are.

You would have to think a extra round of conference tourney play would bring in some money.

Horrible at math but 9 teams at 16 game conference schedules should be 72 games. An extra 3 teams would bring a third more games bring the total to 96.

If it's NBCSports, they need content even if it is water-downed a bit.

[Dish]

If you take the C7, and add Gonzaga and Xavier, in my opinion, there is no one else worth adding.

If nothing else has been learned from the chaos, more isn't always worth it. If you're going to have a niche brand, keep it simple. Don't add Butler or SLU, just to add teams.

9 teams, gets you a 16 game round robin schedule. Build strong rivalries out of it. Adding SLU, Butler, Dayton doesn't add much.

Revenue is going to go down as it is without FBS money coming in. Why needlessly split revenue with 2 or 3 more schools when you don't have to? Every team you add gets an additional share.

Let's say a contract with NBC is worth $9 million, just for pure number sake. Is adding 3 teams in SLU, Dayton, Butler going to justify NBC to up their ante to $12 million? No f'n way.

[Pakuni]

If you take the C7, and add Gonzaga and Xavier, in my opinion, there is no one else worth adding.

If nothing else has been learned from the chaos, more isn't always worth it. If you're going to have a niche brand, keep it simple. Don't add Butler or SLU, just to add teams.

9 teams, gets you a 16 game round robin schedule. Build strong rivalries out of it. Adding SLU, Butler, Dayton doesn't add much.

Revenue is going to go down as it is without FBS money coming in. Why needlessly split revenue with 2 or 3 more schools when you don't have to? Every team you add gets an additional share.

Let's say a contract with NBC is worth $9 million, just for pure number sake. Is adding 3 teams in SLU, Dayton, Butler going to justify NBC to up their ante to $12 million? No f'n way.

St. Louis and Butler each add credible programs in large markets that likely would appeal to the networks, which matters a lot.

[Warriors10]

If you take the C7, and add Gonzaga and Xavier, in my opinion, there is no one else worth adding.

If nothing else has been learned from the chaos, more isn't always worth it. If you're going to have a niche brand, keep it simple. Don't add Butler or SLU, just to add teams.

9 teams, gets you a 16 game round robin schedule. Build strong rivalries out of it. Adding SLU, Butler, Dayton doesn't add much.

Revenue is going to go down as it is without FBS money coming in. Why needlessly split revenue with 2 or 3 more schools when you don't have to? Every team you add gets an additional share.

Let's say a contract with NBC is worth $9 million, just for pure number sake. Is adding 3 teams in SLU, Dayton, Butler going to justify NBC to up their ante to $12 million? No f'n way.

It's your opinion, but you aren't the one signing the checks so it doesn't matter.

[MarquetteDano]

If you take the C7, and add Gonzaga and Xavier, in my opinion, there is no one else worth adding.

If nothing else has been learned from the chaos, more isn't always worth it. If you're going to have a niche brand, keep it simple. Don't add Butler or SLU, just to add teams.

9 teams, gets you a 16 game round robin schedule. Build strong rivalries out of it. Adding SLU, Butler, Dayton doesn't add much.

I don't agree.  Having Saint Louis and Indianapolis will be really key for this new league.  Even outside of the pure tv revenue per school standpoint just having more eyes on this league will be good in the long run.

[MU82]

Butler adds a very good sports market for TV, a very good basketball market for the league and a very good program.

If that adds up to "not very much," then why even bother having a league?

[Dish]

St. Louis and Butler each add credible programs in large markets that likely would appeal to the networks, which matters a lot.

It comes down to pure economics. If adding them generates more revenue than it would at 9 teams, take them by all means. I understand the television markets involved, but let's not kid ourselves, St. Louis (21) and Indy (25) aren't huge markets or huge alumni bases to draw from.

It's not just TV revenue, TV revenue is secondary to NCAA units. If you add those teams, and they are 1 and done, or worse, not going, you're needlessly sharing more money.

This shouldn't be that hard to figure out. You have a niche brand, your revenue stream is going to go down. You need to control revenues as best you can to your ability. I'm not going to share my pay check with an intern who created an RFQ for me.

[Dish]

Butler adds a very good sports market for TV, a very good basketball market for the league and a very good program.

If that adds up to "not very much," then why even bother having a league?

"Very good sports market for TV"? You do know it's 25th overall in the US, right?

Indy=The NYC...of Indiana.

[martyconlonontherun]

Any insight on what is more profitable when comparing length of conference schedule versus buying games?

[Benny B]

"Very good sports market for TV"? You do know it's 25th overall in the US, right?

Indy=The NYC...of Indiana.

Didn't you watch Hoosiers?  The entire state listens to the radio for games at Hinkle Fieldhouse.

I swear to God.... Buzz better walk the guys into Hinkle next year and measure the height of the rim and distance to the free throw line.

[🏀]

Didn't you watch Hoosiers?  The entire state listens to the radio for games at Hinkle Fieldhouse.

I swear to God.... Buzz better walk the guys into Hinkle next year and measure the height of the rim and distance to the free throw line.

That better be video taped.

[chapman]

say a contract with NBC is worth $9 million, just for pure number sake. Is adding 3 teams in SLU, Dayton, Butler going to justify NBC to up their ante to $12 million? No f'n way.

Besides the media market issue, still a good chance yes.  9 teams playing 16 games is 72 games.  12 teams playing 18 is 108, or a 50% increase in content.  If it's quality content (adding worthwhile teams in good markets), absolutely they would pay 33% more.  It's when you add another four, adding lackluster markets or redundant markets and only giving the network one chance to air  MU-Georgetown rather than two with a home-and-home because each one now has to play a bad team that you see the size issues really come about.

[Dish]

Besides the media market issue, still a good chance yes.  9 teams playing 16 games is 72 games.  12 teams playing 18 is 108, or a 50% increase in content.  If it's quality content (adding worthwhile teams in good markets), absolutely they would pay 33% more.  It's when you add another four, adding lackluster markets or redundant markets and only giving the network one chance to air  MU-Georgetown rather than two with a home-and-home because each one now has to play a bad team that you see the size issues really come about.

That's also trusting NBC or ESPN (whoever) is going to want that increase in content. What markets are you going to be drawing from that would cause this 33% bump? St. Louis, Indy, and Dayton?

If I'm a media partner, I'd much rather have two of Georgetown/MU, Villanova/Gonzaga than SLU/Providence, or Dayton/St. Johns. I understand your content argument, but you have to go into this conference going with quality over quantity.

[brewcity77]

"Very good sports market for TV"? You do know it's 25th overall in the US, right?

Indy=The NYC...of Indiana.

And 25th overall is bigger than Cincy (34th) or Milwaukee (35th). Yet no one's arguing Xavier or our inclusion.

Butler brings more than just Indy, though. They are one of the ultimate underdog teams and while much of the state seems to rally behind them, so too does a portion of the country. And it isn't like they just showed up. They have 10 tourney appearances in the past 15 years and 2 Sweet 16s in that time to go along with their back-to-back Finals runs. They are a very worthy add.

[BME to MD]

I think Dish is on the right track with the goal of decreasing mouths to feed and increasing NCAA performance.  Xavier is a given but I would prefer Butler over Gonzaga on the basis of travel costs (given that this will affect all sports).

Given that the future of the ACC is anything put predictable I think it would be worthwhile to save a place for ND as they may prefer a new home for their non-football teams in a couple years.

[Dish]

And 25th overall is bigger than Cincy (34th) or Milwaukee (35th). Yet no one's arguing Xavier or our inclusion.

Butler brings more than just Indy, though. They are one of the ultimate underdog teams and while much of the state seems to rally behind them, so too does a portion of the country. And it isn't like they just showed up. They have 10 tourney appearances in the past 15 years and 2 Sweet 16s in that time to go along with their back-to-back Finals runs. They are a very worthy add.

Take Milwaukee out, because Milwaukee is already in. Xavier is in because they are the number 1 get.

Take all the "underdog" and "rally behind them" crap out of the equation. That's all fine and dandy, but we are talking about money. If they can continue to make the tourney and make runs, then invite them by all means. Passion and underdog crap doesn't matter. Everyone needs to read between the lines here, all of this is about making cash. Read Larry Williams comments, he gets it.