If the Catholic 7 breaks from the Big East, who should be invited to join?

[brewcity77]

Take Milwaukee out, because Milwaukee is already in. Xavier is in because they are the number 1 get.

Take all the "underdog" and "rally behind them" crap out of the equation. That's all fine and dandy, but we are talking about money. If they can continue to make the tourney and make runs, then invite them by all means. Passion and underdog crap doesn't matter. Everyone needs to read between the lines here, all of this is about making cash. Read Larry Williams comments, he gets it.

Read the lines I wrote. Butler has been doing this at a high level for awhile. They have made a solid commitment to their basketball program. They have already moved up to a better conference and have the ability to move up again. And as much as it was a lucky shot, they did just beat us a couple weeks ago.

Market size. Commitment to the sport. Top-notch young coach. Brand name appeal. Sustained success. They have absolutely everything we want in a program. It's almost laughable that Xavier would be a bigger get than Butler. Both are highly desirable.

[🏀]

If they are going 10-team, give me Butler, Xavier and Gonzaga or give me death.

[TallTitan34]

Xavier, Butler, Gonzaga.  Cap it.  Home-and-home against everyone.

[DegenerateDish]

Read the lines I wrote. Butler has been doing this at a high level for awhile. They have made a solid commitment to their basketball program. They have already moved up to a better conference and have the ability to move up again. And as much as it was a lucky shot, they did just beat us a couple weeks ago.

Market size. Commitment to the sport. Top-notch young coach. Brand name appeal. Sustained success. They have absolutely everything we want in a program. It's almost laughable that Xavier would be a bigger get than Butler. Both are highly desirable.

Xavier is #1 because it is Catholic, Butler is not. This isn't anti-Butler, I'd much rather have a 9 team league with Gonzaga and Xavier and that's it. If Butler can add economic value (or any other school), I'm all for them being included. I don't like having another mouth to feed because that school is "close by" or "an underdog". At the end of the day, that doesn't make up for lost revenue. This chaos was started because college football (and basketball to a lesser extent) are huge businesses.

[MU82]

And 25th overall is bigger than Cincy (34th) or Milwaukee (35th). Yet no one's arguing Xavier or our inclusion.

Butler brings more than just Indy, though. They are one of the ultimate underdog teams and while much of the state seems to rally behind them, so too does a portion of the country. And it isn't like they just showed up. They have 10 tourney appearances in the past 15 years and 2 Sweet 16s in that time to go along with their back-to-back Finals runs. They are a very worthy add.

Thank you, brew.

Oh, and how big a market is Spokane?

Make no mistake, I like Gonzaga and I want them in our league, but I'm not sure how somebody can suck up to Gonzaga and rip Butler. Last time I looked at my scorecard, Gonzaga didn't go to the national title game in consecutive years very recently.

[DegenerateDish]

Thank you, brew.

Oh, and how big a market is Spokane?

Make no mistake, I like Gonzaga and I want them in our league, but I'm not sure how somebody can suck up to Gonzaga and rip Butler. Last time I looked at my scorecard, Gonzaga didn't go to the national title game in consecutive years very recently.

Sigh.

We might as well invite George Mason then with this small minded thinking.

[brewcity77]

Xavier is #1 because it is Catholic, Butler is not. This isn't anti-Butler, I'd much rather have a 9 team league with Gonzaga and Xavier and that's it. If Butler can add economic value (or any other school), I'm all for them being included. I don't like having another mouth to feed because that school is "close by" or "an underdog". At the end of the day, that doesn't make up for lost revenue. This chaos was started because college football (and basketball to a lesser extent) are huge businesses.

You're contradicting yourself. You can't say this is about money and then say you'd rather take Xavier over Butler because they are Catholic. It's about money, not denomination.

And I don't want Butler because they are an underdog. But their underdog status has helped them build a national cachet. Much in the same way Gonzaga has used their underdog status to become a school that sells more of their athletic gear nationwide than Marquette. These schools have national recognition, as much or more than we do. I don't care how they got it, but I am damn sure I want it in our conference.

And Gonzaga isn't just about Spokane. They deliver a completely different timezone. They are THE Catholic university on the West Coast. They bring a demographic no one else can offer and, along with possibly St. Mary's and Creighton, allow a new conference the ability to offer a weekly 6-7 hour block of live basketball with top-level teams. I have to think ESPN and NBC would be interested in a league that on a weekly basis could air back-to-back-to-back games like Georgetown vs Butler, Marquette vs Xavier, and Villanova vs Gonzaga, all played locally in prime time.

And you're accusing others of small-minded thinking? Give me a break and start thinking national and not just in 2 times zones.

[DegenerateDish]

The C7 presidents/AD's would take Xavier over Butler first, that's a lock. So I'm not contradicting myself.

I'm not sure why you're agreeing with me about Gonzaga, but ok, I'll allow it. If you're confussing me with someone else, I've said ALL ALONG that Gonzaga is my first choice, and years ago I joked on this very board the conference could be called Catholic USA (it won't be, don't worry).

Look, as I said, this isn't anti-Butler. Let me know where exactly I ripped Butler or their team.

This is about having 9 teams, building a brand (catholic, urban schools *cough, cough*), and keeping as much cash as possible. I'm a broken record at this point, but if adding Butler brings more cash, then by all means add them.

[lalumiere]

Assuming the entire C7 moves to form a new conference, I think there are three non-football playing institutions which would be on the top of the target list.  Theses three institutions are Xavier, Butler and Saint Louis.

After these schools are targeted there are a myriad amount of opportunities out there.

Anywhere between 2 to 4 football playing institutions comprised of Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, Connecticut, and Massachusetts could be targeted.  These schools have nationally recognized basketball programs and would further boost the profile, marketability, and value of the new conference.

However, the 2 to 4 football playing institutions would have to house its football programs elsewhere. These institutions would either have to compete as an independent in football or as an associate member of a football playing conference.  Furthermore, there would have to be significant penalties set in place if any of the football playing institutions left the conference in order to ensure the stability and viability of the new conference.

[brewcity77]

I was looking at your response to MU82, which seemed to indicate teams like Butler and Gonzaga were "small-minded thinking".

I get Xavier is a given. But if you look over the past 10-15 years, the commitment and level of success both Butler and Gonzaga have achieved is second to none among mid-majors. Brad Stevens and Mark Few are known by everyone who follows college basketball.

I really fear the "Catholic" model being our identity. I feel that is small-minded. Going forward, that restricts us to adding schools like Creighton, St. Mary's, and St. Louis. What if we don't add Butler and they sustain this level of success? What if VCU stays or grows where they are at? Any number of other non-Catholic schools could prove to be among the best of the non-football schools. Are we going to say no based on denomination? It's foolish to limit ourselves like that, which is why Butler (and honestly, VCU) should be higher priorities than St. Louis or Creighton. Because we need our identity to be BASKETBALL rather than religion.

And while I wanted them initially, I am thinking we should pass on football schools. Maybe Temple and Memphis, but certainly not Cincy or UConn. They have shown too strong a commitment to leaving. If they signed a ridiculous clause regarding exit fees and future rights, maybe. Otherwise, forget them.

[chren21]

I still don't see anyone talking about the mention in the USA today article that 2 of the votes of the 2/3rds needed to dissolve need to come from football schools. If that's the case the 7 has much less negotiating power than we thought...

[bamamarquettefan]

I believe Xavier and Butler are the no-brainers.  You keep interest in Cincy, and connect Cincy and Indiana with a team that just made the national title game twice and a team that has been in the tourney 8 of the last 10 years with a lot of success.

I would have gone Dayton next, but while an unpopular vote since most of our fans are Mid-west, I believe we need to go VCU next.  They would be the best team in the Conference right now, and have a program very capable of making another Final Four run, and a Richmond-DC trip is very easy to hit Georgetown and VCU and really pull in Virginia where people have been waiting for UVa to come back for decades.

I also believe it is key we keep this at a 10-team league.  In a 10 team league we have the exposure of trips to DC, Philly and New York every year and the TV and student recruiting that comes with it.  You play at all 9 universities and they come to you every year.

If it goes to 12-teams then we probably end up in a Midwest Division and only get to the eastern sites every other year while doubling up against St. Louis, Creighton, DePaul, Butler and Dayton.  Just not the same from an exposure prospective.

[Warriors10]

I don't know if this was posted yet but Cincy news station reported that their sources say Butler, Xavier, and Dayton will get invites.

http://www.local12.com/content/local_sports/story/UC-Xavier-May-Shuffle-Conferences/6jbHWz8TakSnJSEG1sAwaA.cspx

[🏀]

Big bad Bleacher Report stated Fordham was in the mix. I don't need to add that option, do I?

Also, unnatural carnal knowledge Dayton. Do not want then in this league. Their fans seem worse that Domers.

[PJDunn]

No raid on the MVC is worth a damn without Bradley.  Great tradition (remember Hersey Hawkings?), good academics, and they would deliver the Peoria marketplace.  Peoria's airport is slightly smaller than Spokane's, but brand spanking new and much nicer than MKE.  They are not Catholic, but I am pretty sure they would kiss the Pope's ring for an invite to our new conference.

[Norm]

I think it would be better to take Creighton over Dayton.

Like most here, I think Xavier and Butler are the top two schools the C7 need to get. For a 10-team league, I would take Creighton, but would not be disappointed if it was VCU. For a 12-team league, the invites should go to St. Louis and whoever is left over from Creighton/VCU.

[Benny B]

No raid on the MVC is worth a damn without Bradley.  Great tradition (remember Hersey Hawkings?), good academics, and they would deliver the Peoria marketplace.  Peoria's airport is slightly smaller than Spokane's, but brand spanking new and much nicer than MKE.  They are not Catholic, but I am pretty sure they would kiss the Pope's ring for an invite to our new conference.

Best 225th post ever.

[ATWizJr]

No raid on the MVC is worth a damn without Bradley.  Great tradition (remember Hersey Hawkings?), good academics, and they would deliver the Peoria marketplace.  Peoria's airport is slightly smaller than Spokane's, but brand spanking new and much nicer than MKE.  They are not Catholic, but I am pretty sure they would kiss the Pope's ring for an invite to our new conference.

Is Hersey related to Stephen?

[Brewtown Andy]

Anywhere between 2 to 4 football playing institutions comprised of Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, Connecticut, and Massachusetts could be targeted.  These schools have nationally recognized basketball programs and would further boost the profile, marketability, and value of the new conference.

However, the 2 to 4 football playing institutions would have to house its football programs elsewhere. These institutions would either have to compete as an independent in football or as an associate member of a football playing conference.  Furthermore, there would have to be significant penalties set in place if any of the football playing institutions left the conference in order to ensure the stability and viability of the new conference.

No.

[MU Buff]

I'm no expert on this but does Memphis have any chance to get into a BCS conference in the future?

[🏀]

No raid on the MVC is worth a damn without Bradley.  Great tradition (remember Hersey Hawkings?), good academics, and they would deliver the Peoria marketplace.  Peoria's airport is slightly smaller than Spokane's, but brand spanking new and much nicer than MKE.  They are not Catholic, but I am pretty sure they would kiss the Pope's ring for an invite to our new conference.

Here I was thinking everyone would be laughing at the Fordham mention, but this really out did that.

[slingkong]

I don't like St. Mary's at all. Super small, never heard a good thing about their campus and rely heavily on Australian players. I'd take San Fran though, good school, much larger, great overall athletic department, jesuit and much better history.

Good suggestion of SF except for them being Jesuit.  In that respect, WHO CARES?!

[Aughnanure]

Good suggestion of SF except for them being Jesuit.  In that respect, WHO CARES?!

True, but it may matter enough to the 4-5 other Jesuit schools to take them over St. Mary's.  Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount and Santa Clara also have great overall athletic departments that could help support the league's viability in other sports (and Loyola does have some decent bball history under Paul Westhead).

On top of that, I've seen concerns on the Georgetown board about how many sports all these 7-10 schools play. This is significant b/c some like Butler and Georgetown play a lot more than Providence and Seton Hall for example (i.e. you need more than 4 soccer teams for a league). The numbers I saw showed a lot of sports are only supported by 3-5 schools. So there is value in adding schools that play a lot of Olympic sports.

[Sir Lawrence]

Can we dump DePaul?

[brewcity77]

Can we dump DePaul?

Not unless we want to give up the automatic berth to the NCAA tournament.