Zags want in

[brewcity77]

So we can avoid doing this again in a few years.

But in a few years we'd be the ones in control. That's been the problem with this model. The football schools have been dictating financial terms of TV rights to us, they've been adding Houstons, SMUs, and Tulanes without telling us the who's or why's. We've basically just been in the last car of the roller-coaster hoping the bolt doesn't come loose and send us flying to our deaths.

Going forward, we will be in control. Conference reshuffling is always going to happen. How this conference looks in 2 years likely isn't how it will look in 20 years, no matter what we do. But the decisions we make in 2 years could very well help dictate the stability we have in 20. And if we have a few more million in the coffers of the core basketball schools going forward, I say take it. Hell, I even say take them with the full knowledge they'll eventually bolt and you'll be left with 12 top-tier non-football schools and no intent to draft replacements. When you consider the success some of these schools have had in recent years, that's a tidy sum of money we'd be collecting.

[jficke13]

That embarrassing Tulane addition was because they had football.  This new conference will only be adding teams with basketball interest.  You guys are missing the point. This new conference will have nothing to do with football.  If teams happen to have football, so be it.  Those schools will never be in the majority, much less a 2/3's majority.  Heck, write it in the constitution that this league will never be a football league.  You don't turn down good competition that draws recruits, coaches, and TV money, just because fans can't stomach this.

No, you go in a different direction from some of these schools because you're playing a longer game than the next 18 months. Why not just keep a parade of football schools marching on through just to create litigation and so we can continually be recruiting new schools. The lawyers win, yay!

[T-Bone]

But in a few years we'd be the ones in control. Mwah-HA-HA-HA-HA!

Fixed?

[MUCrisco]

No, you go in a different direction from some of these schools because you're playing a longer game than the next 18 months. Why not just keep a parade of football schools marching on through just to create litigation and so we can continually be recruiting new schools. The lawyers win, yay!

Why keep inviting football schools if you don't have to?  If Temple, Memphis, BYU, or San Diego St leave, just invite the best possible basketball program.  Who cares if they have football or not?  We use to have to invite football teams because our conference sponsored football.  Now, we don't have that criteria holding us back.  Why would you go in the extreme opposite direction?  Why would you cross off great basketball programs off the list, just because they have football.  They will never have voting power.  Football will never be considered.  That is taken care of.  So what risk is there from adding these teams?  In my opinion, it will be just as likely for Gtown and a Nova to leave for the ACC.  So, since those schools have expressed interest in that league, they shouldn't be invited either, just because they might bolt?

[jficke13]

Why keep inviting football schools if you don't have to?  If Temple, Memphis, BYU, or San Diego St leave, just invite the best possible basketball program.  Who cares if they have football or not?

Then why not skip the part where we invite teams expecting them to leave, having them leave, and *then* replacing them with basketball-only schools?

[brewcity77]

Why keep inviting football schools if you don't have to?  If Temple, Memphis, BYU, or San Diego St leave, just invite the best possible basketball program.  Who cares if they have football or not?

Exactly right.

First of all, having UConn and Cincy (and honestly, USF) still has some importance. For a league to qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAA tournament, you need to have 8 conference members that have been in a conference together for 7 consecutive years. So keeping one of those three around ensures the new Big East has an auto-bid. If we kick all of them out, we also strip ourselves of the automatic bid. That may not seem like a big deal in a conference where we expect 5-7 bids, but if we come into the conference tourney on the bubble and go on a miracle run to win it, wouldn't you like to know it will be rewarded with a berth in the Big Dance?

Second, this conference is about basketball strength. In no way would I suggest letting Houston, SMU, or Tulane in. Their basketball programs aren't good enough. But the existing Big East football-playing teams were all in the tournament last year. Temple and Memphis have good basketball programs. Those schools enhance our basketball profile. So let them stay. Here's what I would propose as conference members:

Marquette
DePaul
Georgetown
Villanova
St. John's
Providence
Seton Hall

Xavier
Butler
Creighton
Gonzaga

UConn
Cincinnati
USF
Temple
Memphis

Obviously the C7. Then take the 2 best from the A-10 not only to improve our basketball profile, but also to add the Indy market and ensure we keep the Cincy market even if UC bails. This also establishes us as the unquestioned best non-BCS basketball conference. Creighton and Gonzaga are a road-trip pairing of sorts, both solid programs with decent history, and by taking one from the MVC and WCC, again establish us as the unquestioned best non-BCS basketball conference.

We keep UConn, Cincy, and USF for the auto-bid. We keep Temple and Memphis for basketball quality. If any of them decide to leave, either simply let them go or offer their spots to schools with a basketball focus. Whether it's a BYU or San Diego State with football programs or a VCU or Dayton that don't play football is irrelevant. The important part is making sure the basketball teams drive the bus. Never allow more than 5 schools that play football and they'll always be on the wrong end of a 2/3 majority.

[MUCrisco]

Then why not skip the part where we invite teams expecting them to leave, having them leave, and *then* replacing them with basketball-only schools?

Because right now, Temple and Memphis are the best basketball programs available.  Those teams, you can sell to TV.  Getyour TV contract.  Why leave them out on the slight chance they might leave?  Those programs are easier sells to TV, recruits, and coaches, than St Joe's or SLU.

[jficke13]

When we keep/add football schools, don't be surprised when this all happens again in 2 years.

[MUCrisco]

How a bout a 14-team, coast-to-coast conference?

Butler
Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
Villanova
Providence
St John's
Seton Hall
Georgetown
Gonzaga
U San Francisco
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine

It's an ok conference, but not as attractive to TV.  It might have been a mistake, but why leave Creighton off your list.  I don't want to add San Fran, Pepperdine, or Loyola Marymount just so we can get Zags.

[🏀]

No football school for state of mind. Keep it east of the Mississippi for traveling costs. MU will be operating with a smaller budget.

[MUCrisco]

When we keep/add football schools, don't be surprised when this all happens again in 2 years.

Fine.  By then, we have the TV contract secured, and we add those schools you want to add or other teams that have football if they have better hoops programs.  No need to fast forward to that point.

[GGGG]

Because right now, Temple and Memphis are the best basketball programs available.  Those teams, you can sell to TV.  Getyour TV contract.  Why leave them out on the slight chance they might leave?  Those programs are easier sells to TV, recruits, and coaches, than St Joe's or SLU.

We are making assumptions that schools like Memphis and Temple would *want* to be in this conference.  If they are dedicated to football, they are going to want to be in a real football conference.

[brewcity77]

Because right now, Temple and Memphis are the best basketball programs available.  Those teams, you can sell to TV.  Getyour TV contract.  Why leave them out on the slight chance they might leave?  Those programs are easier sells to TV, recruits, and coaches, than St Joe's or SLU.

That and the auto-bid. And if we lose them...well, that's just the landscape of college basketball. Use them to get any tournament shares we can and a guaranteed television deal, then move forward and deal with what comes as it comes.

I definitely would much rather go see Temple, UConn, Memphis, and Cincy at the BC in the next 2-3 years than Dayton, St. Joe's, or San Francisco simply because they are basketball-only.

[MUCrisco]

No football school for state of mind. Keep it east of the Mississippi for traveling costs. MU will be operating with a smaller budget.

What if you have a bigger budget since you have football schools?  What if you have a bigger tv contract due to adding those schools out west.  Sorry, but competition and more money are more important than your state of mind.

[MUCrisco]

That and the auto-bid. And if we lose them...well, that's just the landscape of college basketball. Use them to get any tournament shares we can and a guaranteed television deal, then move forward and deal with what comes as it comes.

I definitely would much rather go see Temple, UConn, Memphis, and Cincy at the BC in the next 2-3 years than Dayton, St. Joe's, or San Francisco simply because they are basketball-only.

Exactly!

[MUCrisco]

We are making assumptions that schools like Memphis and Temple would *want* to be in this conference.  If they are dedicated to football, they are going to want to be in a real football conference.

They may want to be in a real football conference, but being invited is a different story.  Let them join a mid major football conference, but I bet they want to put their other sports in a high major conference.

[jficke13]

I'd love to see UNC, Duke, Pitt, Cuse, et al in the BC every year too. I'm just saying we're setting ourselves up to play this restructuring game again, and again, and again, if we're in a conference with football teams.

[🏀]

What if you have a bigger budget since you have football schools?  What if you have a bigger tv contract due to adding those schools out west.  Sorry, but competition and more money are more important than your state of mind.

I'll just keep my opinion to myself then. You can have you opinion that isn't being discussed anywhere else.

[bamamarquettefan]

I'd consider also adding a St Mary's or BYU as a travel pairing.

Also, this shows that there's no reason for Marquette to go the big fish/small pond route. Butler and VCU have already abandoned that method, and if even Gonzaga wants out it's clearly not the way to go forward.

Agreed completely.  It you are going to make the flight let's make it to play two teams but limit additions to teams who make the NCAA tournament.  I realize Spokane and San Francisco are 850 miles apart, but if the decision is made to go "Catholic League" then they are the two best available (assuming Nova would not want St. Joe's to come into the league.)  I don't like that we are talking really small arenas though.  As nice as it might be to get two games in while in San Fran, it would water us down too much to take on Santa Clara or San Francisco.

So if St. Mary's and Gonzaga joined to create a very strong 9-team Catholic League, the other two out there just for level of play are Creighton and St. Louis.  I guess my question is if Creighton will be as strong after McDermott leaves and if St. Louis will be with Rick Majerus gone (RIP).

As I said, not a big proponent of the Catholic League, but two teams at the level of St. Mary's and Gonzaga are intriging.





http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2012/12/top-40-catholic-basketball-teams-and.html

[🏀]

Those 10P tip-offs against St. Mary's or Gonzaga are going to be awesome.

[MUCrisco]

I'll just keep my opinion to myself then. You can have you opinion that isn't being discussed anywhere else.

Suit yourself.  I never said you can't have an opinion.   Actually, I asked you honest questions so you could explain your position.   My opinion may just happen to disagree with yours.

[MUCrisco]

Those 10P tip-offs against St. Mary's or Gonzaga are going to be awesome.

Honestly, I think they will be.

[🏀]

Honestly, I think they will be.

No, no. That's not up to debate at all.   

In all honesty, that sucks for the fans, staff and most importantly the players.

[MUCrisco]

No, no. That's not up to debate at all.   

In all honesty, that sucks for the fans, staff and most importantly the players.

I'm abnormal.  I'm a basketball nut.  I watch games that tip off then anyway.

[GGGG]

They may want to be in a real football conference, but being invited is a different story.  Let them join a mid major football conference, but I bet they want to put their other sports in a high major conference.

But Crisco, they would already be in a ten-team conference.  (Assuming ECU becomes a full member and Boise and SDSU go elsewhere.)

UConn, Temple, Cincy, USF, UCF, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Tulane and ECU.

So why would they park their other programs in another conference?  And if they do, what do the other seven members do?

As much as we like the idea what we can cherry pick the programs we want, the best and long-term most likely scenario is a clean break.  They get a 10 school, all-sports league.  We get a 7 school, basketball league with the ability to hand pick the best basketball programs from elsewhere.

And this is why I think this will eventually get negotiated.  The basketball schools keep the Big East name and MSG.  The football schools keep their new BCS playoff tie-in.  They split the NCAA credits based on past performance.