Catholic 7 Meeting?

[honkytonk]

And as you say...Milwaukee already doesn't fill the BC when they come across town, what chance is there that Youngstown State, Valpo, or Cleveland State would be selling tickets? Season Ticket sales would drop like a rock.

Exactly. And to me, that is why regional rivalries should trump demographics and tv viewership. Great rivalries alone will ultimately create great bball games that people will want to watch....and just as importantly....want to attend. There is a lot of money to be made in ticket sales....and that revenue isnt shared. If less money from a tv deal means more money at the gate, then sign me up. We are talking about entertainment....and Ill pay for that. Im not going to crappy games that cater to tv demographics. Its just that simple to me.

[JD]

Would anybody else prefer the "Gonzaga model" compared to the A-10 or the current Big East?  I think LW is crazy if he really is considering that option.  Who is going to go to games like Cleveland State, etc?  Why would this even seem like a logical option? 

I really don't understand the point in even thinking about a route like that..  Anybody got any clues into the logic behind this???

[brewcity77]

Would anybody else prefer the "Gonzaga model" compared to the A-10 or the current Big East?  I think LW is crazy if he really is considering that option.  Who is going to go to games like Cleveland State, etc?  Why would this even seem like a logical option? 

I really don't understand the point in even thinking about a route like that..  Anybody got any clues into the logic behind this???

Two reasons. First, simply considering all the options. It's a possibility that has been proven to work (albeit in a small sample size) so why not consider it? Second, because it can get you a lot of attention if it goes well. Look at the positive press it's brought not only Gonzaga, but in limited spans of time schools like Murray State, Butler, and VCU in recent years. A good run or two can turn win you a lot of fans. However, I would also note that of those three schools, two have already moved on to bigger conferences, and it wouldn't surprise me if Murray State was exploring options as well.

I support them for exploring all the options, but for a school in a top-35 media market playing in a NBA arena, I think it would be a huge mistake.

[Silkk the Shaka]

The Gonzaga model isn't what I want, not because they haven't been successful, but because it's a very hard model to ape. Few has proven to be a Spokane lifer (so far) and has recruited to a system. They are consistently ranked, but they built their reputation off their three straight Sweet 16s from 11 years ago. Since then, they've reached the second weekend of the tournament twice. They compete, but they aren't a true contender.

I'm not saying it will be easy regardless. But a true non-football power conference could have legitimate title aspirations. Not as often as the BCS conferences, but with schools like Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, and St. John's (untapped but with Lavin's recruiting could get there) you have schools that can consider the Sweet 16 a starting point and the Final Four a realistic goal. All it takes is for one of them to win two games on that final weekend. Certainly a tough task, but far more surmountable in my opinion for any of those four (and most of the proposed schools) than it is for Gonzaga, who never in their history have even reached the final weekend.

Precisely.

[79Warrior]

Would anybody else prefer the "Gonzaga model" compared to the A-10 or the current Big East?  I think LW is crazy if he really is considering that option.  Who is going to go to games like Cleveland State, etc?  Why would this even seem like a logical option? 

I really don't understand the point in even thinking about a route like that..  Anybody got any clues into the logic behind this???

I guess if he wants to play most of his games at The Al, then the Gonzaga model might work. If this is any clue how the current administration is thinking, then prepare to be disappointed.

[JD]

Two reasons. First, simply considering all the options. It's a possibility that has been proven to work (albeit in a small sample size) so why not consider it? Second, because it can get you a lot of attention if it goes well. Look at the positive press it's brought not only Gonzaga, but in limited spans of time schools like Murray State, Butler, and VCU in recent years. A good run or two can turn win you a lot of fans. However, I would also note that of those three schools, two have already moved on to bigger conferences, and it wouldn't surprise me if Murray State was exploring options as well.

I support them for exploring all the options, but for a school in a top-35 media market playing in a NBA arena, I think it would be a huge mistake.

Makes a ton of sense when you mentioned it....you play in an NBA arena with 19k seats.  You came from CSUA, to the Big East for a reason.  I mean Crean must have been a dumb a** for getting us here then, we should have just stayed in CUSA and became a powerhouse right?  By far the dumbest option i've heard of thus far.  Gonzaga also has a coach who is happy with what he does, i'm not saying Buzz isn't, but what if he goes running?  Do we get the same recruits if we play in the Horizon league?  I'm not sure...  How much is LW paid again?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Would anybody else prefer the "Gonzaga model" compared to the A-10 or the current Big East?  I think LW is crazy if he really is considering that option.  Who is going to go to games like Cleveland State, etc?  Why would this even seem like a logical option? 

I really don't understand the point in even thinking about a route like that..  Anybody got any clues into the logic behind this???

It's not that he is crazy, he is doing what any good exec should do....consider all options.  If you pigeon hole yourself too much you can end up with nothing.  All options should be considered.  It may be option 4 and a distant 4th, but you can't take if off the table as a possible option.  The only one not talked about is going independent...that is also an option, but probably the absolute worst option. 

Some options are better than others, but in some we have leverage and in others we don't. 

[honkytonk]

I support them for exploring all the options, but for a school in a top-35 media market playing in a NBA arena, I think it would be a huge mistake.

Pardon my ignorance, but is playing in an NBA arena really a recruiting advantage? None of the blue-bloods play in one...none of the programs just below the blue bloods play in one.... And we dont land 1 and done or even two and done talents.

If an NBA arena meant something, then SJU should be killing it from a recruiting standpoint. Villinova and Gtown as well. Even SHU. But none of them are.

Coaches and competition are far more important than gameday facilities, IMO. And NBA fans dont een like the freaking Bucks.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Pardon my ignorance, but is playing in an NBA arena really a recruiting advantage? None of the blue-bloods play in one...none of the programs just below the blue bloods play in one.... And we dont land 1 and done or even two and done talents.

If an NBA arena meant something, then SJU should be killing it from a recruiting standpoint. Villinova and Gtown as well. Even SHU. But none of them are.

Coaches and competition are far more important than gameday facilities, IMO. And NBA fans dont een like the freaking Bucks.

This one has been debated here many times.  There are pros and cons to playing in a city with the NBA.  Some will argue it gives you access to NBA players for Summer games and workouts, the ability to talk (casually) with people about the Association, etc.  Some will claim it is a recruiting advantage because we are playing on the same court as LeBron, Wade, etc.  Others bring up the same points you do...the elite programs don't play in a NBA arena by and large.  Memphis, Marquette, St. John's and maybe a few others are the only ones left that do it (Villanova at times, DePaul, etc).  UCLA, Kentucky, Kansas, IU, Duke, UNC, etc, etc, etc all don't play in a NBA arena and many not in a NBA city or even a state that has the NBA, but do extremely well.  It's what you want to believe.

If you have a NBA arena that you play at, trump it up.  If you don't have a NBA arena to play in, then you trump that up as "it's ours, we don't share it" with anyone.  All how you spin it.

[chapman]

Pardon my ignorance, but is playing in an NBA arena really a recruiting advantage?

Nothing to do with recruiting as far as conference affiliation so much as that it's a high fixed cost to lease the BC.  Go to a conference that fills the schedule with 9 home games that don't put butts in seats and you've got to move your games.

[Aughnanure]

Oh come-on, Larry was just answering a question. He wasn't going to say what the plan was or is, but I can't imagine it w/ out being associated with Georgetown. I think he knows fully well that's the worst of all the options, and the hardest.

I don't read it anything more than Larry saying: "The world's not ending. We will value and support our basketball program to success no matter where we are"

[brewcity77]

I do think it helps. But that wasn't why I made the reference. Our NBA arena seats 19,000. We already struggle to fill it against non-con and even some Big East opponents. The idea that we could maintain current season ticket sales in the Horizon or MAC is ludicrous. Quite simply, the big fish/small pond model won't work for a school that counts on revenue for that many seats.

Gonzaga plays in a 6,000 seat venue. It's a completely different situation.

[Aughnanure]

Here's a podcast between KC radio host and Doug Gottlieb. They talk about the Big East basketball news for about 15 minutes starting at the 4:00 mark. Gottlieb is pretty high on the basketball schools getting a good TV deal.

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=26&c=373&f=877461

[MUfan12]

I guess if he wants to play most of his games at The Al, then the Gonzaga model might work. If this is any clue how the current administration is thinking, then prepare to be disappointed.

Let's not make that leap. I'll have to listen to the podcast, but when I listened to it live, the tone was more "we'll do that if we absolutely have to."

[Aughnanure]

They're afraid they may not get an invite, that's all.  Especially if the C7 only want one Ohio team, they know it would obviously be X.

But that's the thing. Dayton has a very good chance of being added if the league goes beyond 10, better than most actually.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

BIG EASt. The lower case 't' is actually a crucifix.

The BIG Host

[WarriorDoc]

But that's the thing. Dayton has a very good chance of being added if the league goes beyond 10, better than most actually.

Why would the BE7 be so apt to add Dayton again?  I understand the dedicated and passionate fanbase.  But what has Dayton done in the past 10 years besides a few NCAA (I believe 2-3) appearances?  I think they won the NIT too, but who cares.  They have the 62nd ranked TV market in the nation.  We already have Ohio if we pick Xavier, why add a lower profile school?  To me it's like adding UW-GB when you already have Marquette--not a perfect comparison, but you get where I'm coming from.

It sounds like the general consensus is SLU, Xavier, and Creighton would be the first invites which put us at 10.  If we need to go to 12, why not add Butler and Richmond?  You get Indianapolis, which is the 25th TV market and Richmond, the 58th best TV market.  Butler has a passionate fanbase with excellent recent tradition with an up and coming coach would gets huge attention.  Richmond's attendance is improving and I just found a link that they averaged the 13th best attendance in the nation in 2010-11.  

So what's the obsession with Dayton?  They seem to bring very little besides a fanbase I find incredibly annoying.

[MarquetteNation]

Xavier and Dayton is a great rivalry...I'm all for putting together the most competitive and viable league, but there's plenty of us on this board who have complained about how conference realignment has already broken up some of the best rivalries in conference sports.  Do we want to be part of the solution or the problem?

[chapman]

Agree completely xghost, and I think that's why the UD fans are so hostile-they may fit the profile for this conference, but even assuming UC and other football-playing schools aren't in the mix they know that X, SLU,and Creighton are teams 8-10.  They're nervous that there's 7 or 8 schools in the mix for 11-12, they're far from a guarantee to be one of those, and it also may stop at 12.  You've got Butler, UMass, and three VA schools (Richmond, VCU, GMU) along with Dayton...hell, if they feel good about Xavier covering Ohio markets then St. Joe's offers as much or more than Dayton even with Nova down the road.  Plus, Dayton hasn't been an NCAA team out of the A10; amongst the feelings of potential abandonment their fans may also feel an invitation to join would be an invitation to be a bottom-feeder.

[LloydMooresLegs]

I wouldn't want to dismiss Dayton just because of one poster/letter writer, but on the other hand, I kind of do.  As noted earlier in the thread, what a dbag:

"DAYTON (OH) -- To Whom it May Concern, namely DePaul, Marquette, St. John's, Providence, Georgetown, Seton Hall, and Villanova:

I understand that you've been having a Maalox Moment or two, so I'd like to address some of your concerns to help explain your indigestion about the continuing implosion of the Big East Conference -- the home turf for all of your athletic programs. And when I say indigestion, I mean panic attacks about your potential irrelevance from the college basketball landscape. My purpose is not to allay your fears but rather substantiate them. As chaotic and desperate as you think they are, I believe there is sound evidence to suggest your fears don't go far enough. They are ever-present, but they are also victim to the sin of spin. Your depth perception is inside-out, and it's worth my time to provide an outside-in viewpoint to cast a proper light on the changing college landscape.

So here goes.

In a nutshell, you're screwed. Not blindfold-and-cigarette screwed, but short on options and shorter on time. You're Jack Dawson on the Titanic and Celine Dion is clearing her throat. The good news is there are lifeboats. The bad news is you came from steerage and those lifeboats aren't for you. In two hours the ship will founder and the best you can hope for is to use the body of a dead porter as an improvised flotation device until help arrives -- but it's no sure thing they'll find you floating among the debris, alive, worth saving.

In basketball parlance, the Big East is the Titanic, college football is the iceberg, and the A10 is the RMS Carpathia. When the Carpathia trawls the debris field for survivors, folks like yourself aren't in a position of strength to demand hot towels and a wine list. You might have been a passenger on the grandest ocean liner to ever set sail, but that was two hours ago. Nobody cares anymore and the royal crest you've been bear-hugging presently sleeps at the bottom of the north Atlantic. You're like everyone else now, but still cling to the Guggenheim attitude.

Glad we could be there to offer a rescue. Want to know more about our swashbuckling sloop? Consider the following.

The A10 holds all of the face cards and authors their own future. The private A10 schools are not going to retreat from the stability and security of the top basketball-only conference in the country and venture out into shark-infested waters where schools are cannibalizing their own league members, jockeying for position, and lobbying over one another into conferences that are completely unstable geographic nightmares of greed, self-absorption, and academic antagonism.

Do I foresee institutions leaving the dead calm of the A10 to form a new basketball-centric conference amid the unpredictable swells and whitecaps of present-day re-alignment? No way -- not unless its under the terms, conditions, and timetable of the departing A10 members. There is too much chaos and uncertainty to abandon a perfectly good ship and swim for the promise of an uncharted land mass.

Especially not after Butler and VCU were just added to the improving conference. It's hard to imagine Butler and VCU accepting invitations to the A10 without the darnedest assurances from Xavier, Dayton, and St. Louis that a bait-and-switch was not eminent.

The A10 is the safe haven at the moment. League members control their own fates and have a timetable based on a sun dial instead of a stopwatch. Members recognize as a stable league, their strength is in numbers.

The A10 is a league many institutions are intrigued to join -- not parachute out of. More schools want a boarding pass than vacant staterooms to fill. The climate is getting more and more advantageous to the A10 as FBS football implodes the college landscape. Even a traveling salesman understands market forces. The A10 office recognizes their position of strength at the bargaining table. The strength is not absolute, but the leverage is undeniable.

Bernadette McGlade knew this last year when she added the Bulldogs and Rams. Her hand is only that much stronger and strengthening by the hour. The A10 doesn't need the Big East basketball schools to survive. A nice addition? Certainly. A necessity? No. Big East basketball schools may ultimately reach a point however where their fate is determined by others only -- on the timetable of others and at the mercy of others.

None of this is to suggest Big East basketball members compare unfavorably to the brass hats of the A10. Marquette, Villanova, and Georgetown have reached Final Fours in recent years. St. John's is still St. John's. Comparing one Big East school to one A10 school is not the comparison that will re-map the landscape however. Power rests in the hands of those most capable of retreating to their existing ships and staying above the waterline. The A10 does not need a flotilla of supply ships to remain at sea for an extended period. She's stocked, cocked, and water-tight. More than that, all hands on deck believe in her.

The A10 schools have historically operated on a smaller budget than schools in the Big East. Maintaining the status quo is just another day at the office. Members are used to stretching a dollar. The A10 brass -- Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis, Butler, St. Joe, and VCU -- are not going to let dollar signs overcome them by some newfangled Big East Redux 2.0 unless it's more bulletproof than the Merrimack.

Why?

The A10 schools would be assuming 100% of the risk while the Big East schools would be taking on none of the risk. When you have nothing to lose, you can't. But A10 schools have everything to lose because they would be folding an already strong hand for a new deal of unknown cards. A10 schools are happy and content where they are if that's the worst case scenario. That's not the case with the basketball schools in the Big East. The problem with musical chairs is there's never a chair for everyone. Big East schools are killing each other to find a seat at the table -- any table.

You've worked hard to convince yourself that everything is the other way around and when Big East basketball schools say "jump", A10 schools shout "how high?", but its nothing more than a half-baked Baghdad Bob impersonation. Whatever happens will happen because the A10 schools chose it to happen. They hold the decisive veto.

Time is wasting and you've already wasted plenty of that. During the favorable weather when most skippers were tightening up their rigging and caulking their hulls, you only had time to count the checks. You were a grand ship but you're nothing but a memory now. Just a cold, rusty, maritime relic sitting alone with no passengers and no port-of-call.

The A10 might not be the ship of royalty, but she's our ship and certainly worth fighting for. You can denigrate her all you like, but she still floats. Rather than order our sailors and officers to command a new ship under your slanted and corrupted oversight, perhaps it will be us barking the orders and assigning the bunks, on our own trusty boat, warts and all, in a manner and timetable of our choosing.

If and when that happens, Celine will be in rare form. Big East basketball schools won't have a heart that goes on. It will have an ongoing heart attack."

[TallTitan34]

According to the ESPN article mentioned earlier they don't have the ability to dissolve the league:

The seven schools have a majority vote, with the three remaining FBS members being Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida. But the group of seven doesn't have the two-thirds vote to dissolve the league. Temple athletic director Bill Bradshaw told the Philadelphia Inquirer that the Owls are a full voting member, even though they don't join in all sports until July 1, 2013.

Industry sources say they couldn't see how or why Temple would side with the seven Catholic schools to vote to dissolve the league.

The seven Big East Catholic schools would have a hard time leaving because they would have to forgo NCAA tournament assets. But the A-10 would welcome them with open arms and promise a more lucrative television deal. The A-10 signed a new rights deal with NBC, CBS and ESPN but hasn't finished all of its rights fees, especially its digital platform.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-eating-21-team-conference-source

[WarriorDoc]

I have minor disdain for Dayton and it's fans because of letters such as I posted earlier, and the 2008 still hurts a little.  It's nothing serious and I'd welcome them into the conference with open arms if they had a relatively successful team with decent tradition and a top 50 market.  Unfortunately they have none of the above, and we can do better with Richmond, that's the only point I'm trying to make.

[WarriorDoc]

According to the ESPN article mentioned earlier they don't have the ability to dissolve the league:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-eating-21-team-conference-source

I thought I saw a post earlier where there was some bylaw that said if a large enough group of schools exit, none of them would have to pay an exit fee?  I assume that would obviously leave money on the table, however.

[The Process]

According to the ESPN article mentioned earlier they don't have the ability to dissolve the league:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-eating-21-team-conference-source

So says Temple's lawyers.  If we look at the bylaws:

1) Big East conference bylaws, contracts, etc. are private... but like all private documents, a lawsuit can change all of that.  Enter WVU vs. Big East and voila... public record.  http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2011/11/04/bigeast_v_wvu_110411.pdf (scroll to pg. 12).

...

7) Although Tulane, Memphis, etc. have been voted in, a member does not become a member until it "competes within the Conference in each varsity sport sponsored by the conference for which the Member has a Division I team."  Therefore, Memphis and Tulane do not currently have a seat on the Board of Directors (i.e. a voting interest).

So the big question is how the bolded statement is treated legally.  As Temple has only competed in football to date, yet they have a D1 basketball team... does this mean that they actually do NOT have a vote as said basketball team has yet to compete "within the conference in each varsity sport sponsored by the conference for which the member has a Division I team?"

Get your popcorn ready, folks...!

[Aughnanure]

I have minor disdain for Dayton and it's fans because of letters such as I posted earlier, and the 2008 still hurts a little.  It's nothing serious and I'd welcome them into the conference with open arms if they had a relatively successful team with decent tradition and a top 50 market.  Unfortunately they have none of the above, and we can do better with Richmond, that's the only point I'm trying to make.

Agreed. They'd be nice if we're going past 12. But if we're going b/t 8-12 my top 5 are:

1. Xavier
2. Butler
3. Creighton
4. St. Louis
5. Richmond