Texas

[kmwtrucks]

The State of TEXAS had 4 5 star player in both 2012 and 2013 and 9 (2012) 7 (2013) 4 star player's.  That is why Buzz would go.   

[Nukem2]

Big question for Buzz is whether his system and style would work with 5 star guys.....

[NersEllenson]

Big question for Buzz is whether his system and style would work with 5 star guys.....

Ahh...yes....if the guy can take 2-3 star players and get them to the league....chances are he'd stand a great chance at getting the 5 star guys.  Buzz's players love playing for him.  It's wishful thinking to think that because he pushes guys hard, they wouldn't want to play for him.  Most 5 stars didn't become 5 stars without having a good work ethic as it is..

[Goose]

If Buzz were coach at Texas he would land 4 and 5 star studs. If he can recruit the way he does here I would think much higher ceiling at Texas. Lets hope Barnes turns things around and then no need to discuss that opening.

[NersEllenson]

If Buzz were coach at Texas he would land 4 and 5 star studs. If he can recruit the way he does here I would think much higher ceiling at Texas. Lets hope Barnes turns things around and then no need to discuss that opening.

Yep....and he'd be able to do it with probably 75% less effort than he has to expend at MU.  That's why the argument that MU will be fine with any coach, simply because MU spends so much on the basketball program/recruiting/etc., that by virtue of that alone, MU will land players.  The reality is, is that most big time programs have a big budget for their basketball coach to recruit with...a lot more challenging to recruit to Marquette than say Texas, or Indiana for that matter - hell look what Crean is doing at IU...he's getting all kinds of guys he'd finish the bridesmaid for at MU.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yep....and he'd be able to do it with probably 75% less effort than he has to expend at MU.  That's why the argument that MU will be fine with any coach, simply because MU spends so much on the basketball program/recruiting/etc., that by virtue of that alone, MU will land players.  The reality is, is that most big time programs have a big budget for their basketball coach to recruit with...a lot more challenging to recruit to Marquette than say Texas, or Indiana for that matter - hell look what Crean is doing at IU...he's getting all kinds of guys he'd finish the bridesmaid for at MU.

He's getting all kinds of kids at IU because Indiana is loaded with talent, the state that is.  Plus they are one of the blue bloods in this country. It doesn't hurt that he landed a bunch of NBA guys at MU as well...sure he finished bridesmaid, but also landed 7 NBA guys here.  Mbakwe (he'll get drafted for 2013), Diener, Wade, Hayward, Novak, McNeal and Matthews.  I don't disagree with you that it is harder to recruit at MU, but Crean proved it can be done and so did K.O. and Buzz.  Three of the previous four coaches have recruited well at MU....6 of the previous 8 coaches if we go back far enough.

[NersEllenson]

He's getting all kinds of kids at IU because Indiana is loaded with talent, the state that is.  Plus they are one of the blue bloods in this country. It doesn't hurt that he landed a bunch of NBA guys at MU as well...sure he finished bridesmaid, but also landed 6 NBA guys here.  Mbakwe, Diener, Wade, Hayward, Novak, McNeal.  I don't disagree with you that it is harder to recruit at MU, but Crean proved it can be done and so did K.O. and Buzz.  Three of the previous four coaches have recruited well at MU....6 of the previous 8 coaches if we go back far enough.

All true...but generally it was very hard for TC to stack back to back to back really strong recruiting classes together...as he is now doing at IU...which is what it takes to be a consistent, year in, year out National Championship contender.  Yes, Indiana has more hoops talent than WI, but he's also getting kids from Oak Hill Academy, and others outside the state.  A huge reason he left MU for IU was because he felt it would be easier to land players/easier to consistently compete for National Championships at IU...and I certainly don't fault him for that...and his recruiting and on court results are showing as much..

[GGGG]

He's getting all kinds of kids at IU because Indiana is loaded with talent, the state that is.  Plus they are one of the blue bloods in this country. It doesn't hurt that he landed a bunch of NBA guys at MU as well...sure he finished bridesmaid, but also landed 6 NBA guys here.  Mbakwe, Diener, Wade, Hayward, Novak, McNeal.

Does Mbakwe play for his NBA team in between his Gopher games?

[Goose]

TC is doing something at IU that he never could have done at MU. I give him credit for putting himself in that situation. Recruiting IU vs recruiting MU is not even a debate. I would add if Buzz were at blue blood school or in a recruiting hotbed he would be picking kids and not chasing kids. For him to recruit at the level he has at MU is beyond surprising to me. TC worked his ass off recruiting for MU and always was in the running for kids and kudo's for that. If Buzz were at Texas he would have top ten classes on regular basis with a lot less work to do so.

[Nukem2]

No question the recruiting would be easier...the thing, though, is wether Buzz could get buy in from these guys for his style...Buzz is not going to change........

[Pakuni]

Nobody knows whether Buzz would be able to land five-star guys at a bigger program, or how he would fare with those guys.
Certainly the college hoops landscape is littered with examples of guys who made that kind of jump and crashed, i.e. Billy Clyde Gillispie, Tommy Amaker, Trent Johnson, Matt Doherty, Dan Monson, etc.

Let's hope we don't have to find out.

[Goose]

Pakuni

Of course no one say with complete certainty that Buzz or anyone can land five stars. IMO his track record at MU would be basis for a Texas or another top school to believe he could land them. One thing is for certain, you have to work pretty damn hard to outwork Buzz and that is why he is great candidate for an job. In addition, the kids love him.

[NersEllenson]

No question the recruiting would be easier...the thing, though, is wether Buzz could get buy in from these guys for his style...Buzz is not going to change........

Do you think all 5-stars somehow have less work ethic or drive than 2-3 stars?  Buzz's players pretty much swear by him, would run through a wall for him...regardless of star rating. 

What about Buzz's style makes you think a 5-star wouldn't buy in?

[Pakuni]

Pakuni

Of course no one say with complete certainty that Buzz or anyone can land five stars. IMO his track record at MU would be basis for a Texas or another top school to believe he could land them. One thing is for certain, you have to work pretty damn hard to outwork Buzz and that is why he is great candidate for an job. In addition, the kids love him.

I'm not suggesting anything different. Just pointing out that several guys have landed at big schools with similar track records and, for a variety of reasons, flopped.
Failing to land five-stars, IMO, wouldn't be an issue for Buzz. Coaching kids who view themselves - sometimes correctly - as NBA ready, and college basketball as a brief and mandatory detour on their way to the pros, could be.

[Goose]

All I know is I hope to hell we never find out if Buzz can recruit 5 stars at Texas or anywhere else.

[NersEllenson]

Here is something that makes MU more attractive than Texas - although Texas draws fairly well at home in Austin - but this was pretty bad:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/struggling-ucla-texas-play-inside-nearly-empty-reliant-003412765--ncaab.html

[Pakuni]

Do you think all 5-stars somehow have less work ethic or drive than 2-3 stars?  Buzz's players pretty much swear by him, would run through a wall for him...regardless of star rating.  

What about Buzz's style makes you think a 5-star wouldn't buy in?

It's not a matter less work ethic, it's a matter of being a different kind of player/person.
Buzz has succeeded largely by landing overlooked kids who come in with a chip on their shoulder knowing the only way they'll succeed is by outworking everyone else, because they can't do it on talent alone. An athletic 6-foot-10 McDonald's AA projected as a lottery pick since his junior year of high school isn't going to arrive on campus with the same attitude. It's literally impossible for him to have the same attitude.
This doesn't mean the kid will or won't gel with Buzz. Just that it's a different dynamic, the result of which is not necessarily predictable.

I'd suggest the "run through a wall for him" says as much about the type of person Buzz recruits as it does about what Buzz does to them once they get on campus.

[Golden Avalanche]

You clowns are fucking kidding yourselves if you think Buzz would have trouble attracting, or motivating, five star talent in Austin or any other higher class program than Marquette.

[Lennys Tap]

Does Mbakwe play for his NBA team in between his Gopher games?

And has McNeal played a minute in the NBA?

[Pakuni]

You clowns are fracking kidding yourselves if you think Buzz would have trouble attracting, or motivating, five star talent in Austin or any other higher class program than Marquette.

... said absolutely no one.

[NersEllenson]

... said absolutely no one.

Then can you clarify what the point of this post was??

It's not a matter less work ethic, it's a matter of being a different kind of player/person.
Buzz has succeeded largely by landing overlooked kids who come in with a chip on their shoulder knowing the only way they'll succeed is by outworking everyone else, because they can't do it on talent alone. An athletic 6-foot-10 McDonald's AA projected as a lottery pick since his junior year of high school isn't going to arrive on campus with the same attitude. It's literally impossible for him to have the same attitude.
This doesn't mean the kid will or won't gel with Buzz. Just that it's a different dynamic, the result of which is not necessarily predictable.

I'd suggest the "run through a wall for him" says as much about the type of person Buzz recruits as it does about what Buzz does to them once they get on campus.

Which was basically in response to the original premise and post of Nukem

No question the recruiting would be easier...the thing, though, is wether Buzz could get buy in from these guys for his style...Buzz is not going to change........

[Pakuni]

Then can you clarify what the point of this post was??

Which was basically in response to the original premise and post of Nukem

Really?
You need clarification of the statement:

"Just that it's a different dynamic, the result of which is not necessarily predictable."

OK. I'll go s-l-o-w.
It is not known how Buzz would fare with NBA ready/bound McDonald's AAs.
It is not known because he's never coached NBA ready/bound McDonald's AAs.
"It is not known" does not mean he would or would not succeed. It does not mean he would have trouble. It means "it is not known."

Clear enough?
Now, perhaps I simply lack your omniscience when it comes to these things. But until proven otherwise, I stand by my statement. And, please, try to keep up.

[Tugg Speedman]

He's getting all kinds of kids at IU because Indiana is loaded with talent, the state that is.  Plus they are one of the blue bloods in this country. It doesn't hurt that he landed a bunch of NBA guys at MU as well...sure he finished bridesmaid, but also landed 6 NBA guys here.  Mbakwe, Diener, Wade, Hayward, Novak, McNeal. 

Mbakwe is still in College (Minnesota).  I do not believe McNeal has played a minute in the NBA.

On the other side you forgot to mention Matthews. 

Other than that, this is a pretty good list.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Does Mbakwe play for his NBA team in between his Gopher games?

  I'm going out on a limb that sure as water is wet, he will be in the Association next year.  Well, at least he has the talent.  Unfortunately for him he finds himself in trouble a lot which may get in the way, but I'll go on a limb and say he makes it.  All three mock draft sites that are "semi-relevant" have him going early second round.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And has McNeal played a minute in the NBA?

Three games, all preseason.  He has also signed a contract, which by NBA stats means he is an official NBA player, he just doesn't have an official stat line but was on a NBA roster.


http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jerel_mcneal/

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/raptors-sign-g-jerel-mcneal-191140808--nba.html

Mbakwe is still in College (Minnesota).  I do not believe McNeal has played a minute in the NBA.

On the other side you forgot to mention Matthews.  

Other than that, this is a pretty good list.

You are right, how I forgot Matthews is crazy...I'll go edit.