Big East/ACC Hybrid Hypothetical

[brewcity77]

While the ACC has made a habit of raiding the Big East for a few years now, it seems like they're becoming the victims, as Maryland is gone, FSU has one foot out the door (and is likely taking Clemson), and both the SEC and B1G seem to be circling schools like Georgia Tech, Virginia, and UNC.

With that in mind, I thought I'd look at what we might have left for a merger. I really think there are two main factors. First, you need to be able to put together a viable football conference. Obviously it won't be SEC/ACC good, but you need to be able to win a few bowl games here and there. Second, you need to be at least arguably the best basketball conference in the country. No, it doesn't sell like football, but it carried the Big East for quite awhile. First of all, let's look at a worst-case scenario of how the B1G, SEC, and Big 12 would ALL get to 16 teams:

B1G: Adds Georgia Tech and Notre Dame
SEC: Adds North Carolina and Virginia
Big 12: Adds Florida State, Clemson, Louisville, Cincinnati, Virginia Tech, NC State

Again, this is worst case scenario. I don't think this happens, but ND to the B1G has been rumored for ages and is probably the only non-AAU school they would sniff. The SEC gets two more big state schools while the Big 12 picks off the best of the rest.

At this point, the best potential football conference would probably be:

Boston College
Central Florida
Connecticut
Duke
Houston
Memphis
Miami
Pittsburgh
South Florida
Syracuse
Temple
Wake Forest

I can already hear the groans...that's worse than the current Big East. But at least Miami has won a NC and there's a sizable footprint. Granted, it reads like leftovers and mid-majors, but the real question is will they want basketball-onlies?

Duke, Syracuse, Pitt, and UConn provide instant basketball credibility, but there's no way this is a top-tier basketball conference. Even with Memphis, Temple, and Wake (who was really good up until a few years ago) I struggle to see how this league would be considered elite without adding the basketball-only schools. So who comes? I think numbers might favor us, as going with 7 would create a 19-team league that might be a slightly unwieldy sounding number but would allow for an easy 18-game schedule alternating home and away dates annually.

DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Providence
Seton Hall
St. John's
Villanova

In addition, this is enough members (with USF) that the new league would still qualify for an automatic bid to the NCAAs (you need 8 schools that have been together at least 7 years). GT, Marquette, and 'Nova all provide some clout, the rest provide some decent history, and I think you have a league that while large would probably be able to put 8-10 teams in the dance pretty regularly while routinely having 4-5 teams in the top-15 of the country.

Any thoughts?

[Benny B]

Conceptually: Big/ACC Hybrid > Basketball-only Conference

Longevity: Big/ACC < BoC

Financially to MU: Big/ACC ≈ BoC


To me, it would boil down to which is more desirable, stability or prestige.  In a BoC, you'd at least have a chance to build prestige over time, but in the Big/ACC, you're always going to be at the mercy of the whims of football.

[honkytonk]

*You suggest that the hybrid model would be a feasible strategy if the B10, 12 and SEC all went to 16. However, the most aggressive commissioner with regard to expansion has been Larry Scott. Why would he stay at 12 when he has already tried to be the first to get to 16?

*The BE already suggested combining the football programs with the ACC. The ACC turned it down. Why share when the ACC can still take any program it wants from the BE? If they lose as many programs as you suggest, they will simply be replaced by BE teams.

*I personally believe the B12 is more unstable than the ACC. The GoR has yet to be challenged. I have yet to hear of an iron-clad contract....in anything. If it was all roses in the B12, Mizzou and A&M wouldnt have left. Those programs individually are far bigger losses than Maryland. 

[brewcity77]

@honkytonk:

Larry Scott has been aggressive, but he's been turned down by Oklahoma and Texas already.

The ACC turned it down then, but if they lose half their expected future membership, they won't really have much choice. There simply aren't enough worthwhile schools in the Big East left to raid.

Mizzou and A&M left, but the Big 12 has done a much better job of stabilizing since then, simply by keeping Texas and Oklahoma if nothing else. FSU wouldn't be looking at joining the Big 12 if they didn't feel it wasn't a safer move, especially with the prohibitive buyout. And while Louisville may be ACC-bound, they wanted to go to the Big 12.

What you have to remember is that football is still driving this bus, and the ACC doesn't have any viable NC contenders in that sport. FSU is the closest thing and does anyone expect them to still be in the ACC come this time next week? Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, those are all programs that can viably contend for a national title. I don't hear anyone saying the same about any ACC schools right now.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

call the mo-fo the Big ACC, play the tournament in MSG (so Duke has to leave North Carolina for a tournament game) and be done with it.

[honkytonk]

How can expansion be about football when the B10 just took Rutgers and Maryland? Historically, Rutgers is one of the weakest schedulers in all of college football. The B10 is done adding football teams (there arent any left in areas the conference wants to expand). Now, they are just adding cable subscribers. Delany pretty much admitted it.

The PAC didnt add Colorado and Utah because of their great football history, either.

And I thought Oklahoma was interested in the PAC but cant move without an invite for Okie State? If they need 4, then maybe Scott gives in. And Texas wasnt interested because they had plans at the time to launch the Longhorn network. That has since been accomplished...and from what I understand, it is struggling. Give it some time and maybe they pull the plug on it...or maybe the PAC wouldnt even care if they maintained it? Who knows.

To get to 16, conferences are going to have to water down their football competition )unless the PAC can get Okie and Texas). And if conferences are going to water competition down, the markets are going to have to be great (like NJ and DMV).

The law of diminshing returns has not kicked in yet for the Big 4. But they are close. Once there is nothing left, THEN maybe bball only schools get invited. Until then, schools like Temple and UCF are still worth more to the ACC.

[Dawson Rental]

At this point, the best potential football conference would probably be:

Boston College
Central Florida
Connecticut
Duke
Houston
Memphis
Miami
Pittsburgh
South Florida
Syracuse
Temple
Wake Forest

I think numbers might favor us, as going with 7 would create a 19-team league that might be a slightly unwieldy sounding number but would allow for an easy 18-game schedule alternating home and away dates annually.

DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Providence
Seton Hall
St. John's
Villanova

Any thoughts?

Hey, Pittsburgh, Syracuse greatttt to see you guys again.  Thanks again for the exit fees!

[brewcity77]

Hey, Pittsburgh, Syracuse greatttt to see you guys again.  Thanks again for the exit fees!

[honkytonk]

Hey, Pittsburgh, Syracuse greatttt to see you guys again.  Thanks again for the exit fees!

Haha. I think there is a better chance of hell freezing over than Providence being accepted into the ACC. Marinatto and Tranghese would internally combust.

[brewcity77]

Haha. I think there is a better chance of hell freezing over than Providence being accepted into the ACC. Marinatto and Tranghese would internally combust.

Their legacy left when Aresco took over. They still have strong ties to the other basketball-only schools, though. I'm sure Xavier would be a more attractive name, especially if Cincy did go to the Big 12, but the Friars still bring a borderline top-50 market.

That said, they could just as easily go after A-10 schools to fill out the basketball roster, in which case we better stay tied to DePaul as tight as possible. We have the quality, they have the quantity (of television sets).

[bilsu]

I think it is likely that Big 10 and SEC get to 16 teams at expense of ACC. Assuming that happens the Pac 10 will also move to get to 16, most likely at the expense of the Big 12. The result would be a merger of some of the remaining ACC, Big 12, and Big East football teams into a 16 team football conference. Three great conferences and one mismatched conference.