Harbaugh Arrogance

[ChicosBailBonds]

Good find...and you'll notice that there is very little laughter at the premise of his joke, but huge applause at the end when Karlin uses the topic to speak to Vietnam Vets getting the attention/help they deserved..the audience recognizing the reality of Shell Shock, Operational Exhaustion, PTSD - whatever you want to call it - yet people/government/whomever turning their back to the reality.

Carlin was the ultimate thinking man's comic. He normally didn't have people burst out into laughter and knee slapping themselves, not his comic style.  Sometimes it took people 10 seconds just to get what he was saying and when they did, it was funny but in a oh crap that is so true but I better not laugh at it because someone might think ill of me.

[NersEllenson]

So what you're saying is, no?

About all you can reply with, as there is no legitimate rebuttal to your dumb stance on the matter.

[NersEllenson]

Carlin was the ultimate thinking man's comic. He normally didn't have people burst out into laughter and knee slapping themselves, not his comic style.  Sometimes it took people 10 seconds just to get what he was saying and when they did, it was funny but in a oh crap that is so true but I better not laugh at it because someone might think ill of me.

Welcome back Chicos..hopefully it will be a peaceful 2013...since your return - so far so good!  Merry Christmas.

[Aughnanure]

About all you can reply with, as there is no legitimate rebuttal to your dumb stance on the matter.

No, I asked you what was dangerous about making  the joke. Your responded with: PTSD is real and soldiers will get their feelings hurt, along with the same righteous indignation that started this dumb overreaction.

So no, you didn't answer MY question to you when you called the jokes dangerous. Having feelings hurt is not a "danger." Try again.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Who the f!ck said anything about "danger"? The point is that it makes you look like a classless sh!thead. Maybe one of your family members will get violently raped, be unable to sleep for 30 years, and you can begin to view people with PTSD with a little more compassion. Till then, honestly, go f!ck yourself.

[real chili 83]

Can we add the Amish to this list?

If could make a list of things that are sad and sensitive and that people should never make a joke about it please also include:

~Racism
~Poverty
~Gay people
~9/11
~Drugs
~Abortion
~Death
~Religion
~And basically every episode of South Park, every standup routine by George Carlin, Louis CK, Eddie Murphy, Dave Chappelle...

[NersEllenson]

People that want to draw lines, and boundaries, and decide what is sacred to make fun of and what is not are way more dangerous that whatever damage could've been done from a f***ing joke.

You'll note I replied to your above post that those who lack common sense and are unable to exercise any restraint with regard to their joke making are far more dangerous than those who decide to draw a line/boundary on appropriate/inappropriate...with regard to joking around about PTSD.

Your position exhibits a lack of common sense, gratitude, appreciation - and there is far more danger in that, than those who draw a line and defend those who have put their life on the line and in harms way for the rest of us - from selfish, ungrateful, entitled, and likely spoiled brats like yourself.  Any decent human being has gratitude for the service of our military and doesn't joke around about the 2nd tragedy of war after death - PTSD.

[Aughnanure]

Who the f!ck said anything about "danger"? The point is that it makes you look like a classless sh!thead. Maybe one of your family members will get violently raped, be unable to sleep for 30 years, and you can begin to view people with PTSD with a little more compassion. Till then, honestly, go f!ck yourself.

Ners did. Trying reading next time before you foam at the mouth.

[Aughnanure]

You'll note I replied to your above post that those who lack common sense and are unable to exercise any restraint with regard to their joke making are far more dangerous than those who decide to draw a line/boundary on appropriate/inappropriate...with regard to joking around about PTSD.

Your position exhibits a lack of common sense, gratitude, appreciation - and there is far more danger in that, than those who draw a line and defend those who have put their life on the line and in harms way for the rest of us - from selfish, ungrateful, entitled, and likely spoiled brats like yourself.  Any decent human being has gratitude for the service of our military and doesn't joke around about the 2nd tragedy of war after death - PTSD.

How so? Seriously, you just say its dangerous and never describe how or why or give any logical explanation to make that accusation even remotely true.

In actuality, you are the one trying to censor and block people because you don't like what they said one time. Deciding what is okay to say and what is not. Taking a perceived ability to judge so righteously and exploiting it for your own subjective suspicions and conclusions.

My position, cause you obviously never actually burned a brain cell deciphering it, is defending those whom you wish to censor and exert your perceived power over. Not that complicated.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Can we add the Amish to this list?

Old Order Amish yes, but New Order definitely not.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Welcome back Chicos..hopefully it will be a peaceful 2013...since your return - so far so good!  Merry Christmas.

And to you my good man, Merry Christmas! 

[real chili 83]

Old Order Amish yes, but New Order definitely not.

How about the Nappanee Amish?  

Sultan, do you have any Nappanee Amish in you?  

[Dawson Rental]

When you get your fat @ss off your government-funded education desk job and do something useful for the country, let us all know.

Who the f!ck said anything about "danger"? The point is that it makes you look like a classless sh!thead. Maybe one of your family members will get violently raped, be unable to sleep for 30 years, and you can begin to view people with PTSD with a little more compassion. Till then, honestly, go f!ck yourself.

Congratulations on showing the most consistency of any poster in this thread.  Two posts, both containing aggressive verbal attacks.  IMHO, you've lost the moral high ground.

[NersEllenson]

How so? Seriously, you just say its dangerous and never describe how or why or give any logical explanation to make that accusation even remotely true.

In actuality, you are the one trying to censor and block people because you don't like what they said one time. Deciding what is okay to say and what is not. Taking a perceived ability to judge so righteously and exploiting it for your own subjective suspicions and conclusions.

My position, cause you obviously never actually burned a brain cell deciphering it, is defending those whom you wish to censor and exert your perceived power over. Not that complicated.

It's dangerous because there are plenty of ungrateful, pricks, that feel they are entitled to all things, and show little gratitude or respect for anyone/anything.  The poster the PTSD "joke" was made toward (Warthog Driver/Unforgiven) has been in combat and dealt with situations you nor I will ever have to deal with.  The months on end you have someone firing missles/guns at you with the specific intent to kill you, and the months on end you live in a city of minefields, or people dressing up as your own strapped with explosives in an attempt to kill you - will be the month you can make jokes toward other military members about PTSD.

Sorry, I just find it dangerous, when civilians make light of, or make jokes, toward the men of the military who protect them/this country.  If you can't appreciate/not make jokes at those who fight for our freedoms/safety - and in your argument..free speech - I don't know what else to tell you. 

[Hards Alumni]

It's dangerous because there are plenty of ungrateful, pricks, that feel they are entitled to all things, and show little gratitude or respect for anyone/anything.  The poster the PTSD "joke" was made toward (Warthog Driver/Unforgiven) has been in combat and dealt with situations you nor I will ever have to deal with.  The months on end you have someone firing missles/guns at you with the specific intent to kill you, and the months on end you live in a city of minefields, or people dressing up as your own strapped with explosives in an attempt to kill you - will be the month you can make jokes toward other military members about PTSD.

Sorry, I just find it dangerous, when civilians make light of, or make jokes, toward the men of the military who protect them/this country.  If you can't appreciate/not make jokes at those who fight for our freedoms/safety - and in your argument..free speech - I don't know what else to tell you. 

I find it offensive to make fun of homosexuals, but you manage to do that here every once in a while.  I get your outrage about this, but if you are going to take up the cause, you have to be respectful of what offends everyone... not just you.  And that my friend, is the slippery slope that comes from PC stances.

FWIW, I don't like the PTSD jokes either (family members have it), but I can get past them as jokes, and that I'm probably not going to be able to control other people.   

[mu03eng]

It's dangerous because there are plenty of ungrateful, pricks, that feel they are entitled to all things, and show little gratitude or respect for anyone/anything.  The poster the PTSD "joke" was made toward (Warthog Driver/Unforgiven) has been in combat and dealt with situations you nor I will ever have to deal with.  The months on end you have someone firing missles/guns at you with the specific intent to kill you, and the months on end you live in a city of minefields, or people dressing up as your own strapped with explosives in an attempt to kill you - will be the month you can make jokes toward other military members about PTSD.

Sorry, I just find it dangerous, when civilians make light of, or make jokes, toward the men of the military who protect them/this country.  If you can't appreciate/not make jokes at those who fight for our freedoms/safety - and in your argument..free speech - I don't know what else to tell you. 

Have you spent any time around the men AND women who serve in combat?  If you really think that a casual PTSD joke on a message board is going to shake them to their core, you don't understand them.  I will not speak for a whole segment of people(combat veterans), but based on my experiences and veterans I know very well it's not nearly the big deal you want to make it out to be.  Believe me, I've heard veterans say much worse things without blinking an eye.

The joke was in poor taste, but at the end of the day it spurred a good conversation and hopefully has made some on this board more aware of PTSD.  And the whole point of free speech is nothing is off limits.  Hell, the military accepts all sorts of limitations on their rights to defend ours, making that much more admirable, but it also means they aren't going to collapse at this kind of joke.  I get the whole there was a time when America treated it's veterans like crap and it is shameful and deplorable, but that time has passed and this was in no way a dig at the military.  You are entitled to your opinion, but I think to paint Sultan as some sort of Jane Fonda recreation is too far.

[mu03eng]

Point of clarification, PTSD is a BIG deal, a joke about it is not.

[🏀]

I find it hilarious that Ners and Lenny jumped up on a really high horse in this thread when the only person suitable for that horse is warthog.

[GGGG]

Who the f!ck said anything about "danger"? The point is that it makes you look like a classless sh!thead. Maybe one of your family members will get violently raped, be unable to sleep for 30 years, and you can begin to view people with PTSD with a little more compassion. Till then, honestly, go f!ck yourself.

Who says I don't have compassion for people with PTSD?  That's quite a leap in logic.

[hairy worthen]

I find it hilarious that Ners and Lenny jumped up on a really high horse in this thread when the only person suitable for that horse is warthog.

Yes, but I like the Warthog character much better than the bitter, hateful Unforgiven character. People who serve our country should earn our respect and gratitude. It does not give them the right to be hateful, white supremisct jags.  I respect people who serve in the military, but they shouldn't throw it in our face every chance they get.  Now when is this thread getting locked.

[NersEllenson]

I find it hilarious that Ners and Lenny jumped up on a really high horse in this thread when the only person suitable for that horse is warthog.

So just to be clear - since I haven't served in the military (and I assume Lenny either), we aren't worthy to support/defend those who have?  So what do you say for all of the people who post here that haven't played for Marquette's Men's Basketball team - are they not able to support/rally/defend/make comments on the Marquette Basketball Team? 

If supporting our military members, and not making light of post combat issues like PTSD is jumping on a high horse - I'll jump on that high horse everyday - whether I'm qualified or not in your view PTM. 

Lastly, I find it hilarious that you add yet another post of no value or significance.  Why don't you make a comment about the discussion, versus on those having the debate on the topic/discussion.

[Hards Alumni]

So just to be clear - since I haven't served in the military (and I assume Lenny either), we aren't worthy to support/defend those who have?  So what do you say for all of the people who post here that haven't played for Marquette's Men's Basketball team - are they not able to support/rally/defend/make comments on the Marquette Basketball Team? 

If supporting our military members, and not making light of post combat issues like PTSD is jumping on a high horse - I'll jump on that high horse everyday - whether I'm qualified or not in your view PTM. 

Lastly, I find it hilarious that you add yet another post of no value or significance.  Why don't you make a comment about the discussion, versus on those having the debate on the topic/discussion.

I see you had no problem knocking that straw man down.  Though he didn't put up much of a fight.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It was a silly quip.

Far more offensive things have been said and thought on this board.

Move on, gentlemen. Move on.

[NersEllenson]

Have you spent any time around the men AND women who serve in combat?  If you really think that a casual PTSD joke on a message board is going to shake them to their core, you don't understand them.  I will not speak for a whole segment of people(combat veterans), but based on my experiences and veterans I know very well it's not nearly the big deal you want to make it out to be.  Believe me, I've heard veterans say much worse things without blinking an eye.

The joke was in poor taste, but at the end of the day it spurred a good conversation and hopefully has made some on this board more aware of PTSD.  And the whole point of free speech is nothing is off limits.  Hell, the military accepts all sorts of limitations on their rights to defend ours, making that much more admirable, but it also means they aren't going to collapse at this kind of joke.  I get the whole there was a time when America treated it's veterans like crap and it is shameful and deplorable, but that time has passed and this was in no way a dig at the military.  You are entitled to your opinion, but I think to paint Sultan as some sort of Jane Fonda recreation is too far.

All in all I agre with what you've written here.  I'm not trying to paint Sultan as a Jane Fonda...my bigger debate has been with Augunhare...I've spent some time around veterans, yes, several whom have served in Iraq and Afghanistan - I don't believe they would be shaken to the core by a civilian making a PTSD joke - no.  Possibly offended?  Yes.

I agree that freedom of speech is an important value, and am not a fan of censorship at all - yet there are always a few exceptions to the rule - and in this case, to make jokes about PTSD directly to those who have served our country to protect our freedoms (and freedom of speech), seems pretty ironic/disingenuous.   All this said, do I feel there was malicious intent on Sultan's part?  No.  And that is definitely another measuring stick in the debate - intent.  As most have come to the conclusion - it was a joke in poor taste.  Won't be the first one, won't be the last one.  

[GGGG]

It was a silly quip.

Far more offensive things have been said and thought on this board.

Move on, gentlemen. Move on.

Yeah no kidding.  This is the Scoopiest Scoop thread ever.