Embiid to Visit Marquette

[Rubie Q]

Okay...question for esoteric and LAZER: If my kid is admitted to Marquette on a full academic scholarship, then struggles to adapt, carries a 1.8 GPA, and is spending more time drinking and partying than studying, and Marquette pulls the scholarship that has a requirement written in that he maintain a 3.5 GPA, would you blame Marquette and say that they owe it to him and that the university was being fraudulent?

I don't think that's a fair analogy. What if Marquette offers your kid that scholarship, but says to him: "We have academic requirements, of course, but we're more interested in you becoming a well-rounded person than being a kid who holes himself up studying 22 hours a day. So we want you to join a handful of student organizations and do some community service and so on and et cetera," and your kid does those all those things, but then only pulls a 3.2 GPA, and he gets called in and is told: "Well, we told you there were strict academic requirements. We'll do our best to help you transfer to another school."

Would that raise your eyebrows?

[GGGG]

I'm so glad everyone here is such an expert on what Buzz actually tells recruits and their parents. How can I get a chance to listen into such conversations?

[Rubie Q]

I'm so glad everyone here is such an expert on what Buzz actually tells recruits and their parents. How can I get a chance to listen into such conversations?

Well, it's what he said at the press conference where he was introduced as head coach:

What I want you to know is you have my commitment, that as the steward of this program, the face of this program is always, always, forever, going to be about the players in the program. And the players in the program will not be judged always in accordance with their skill set or their talent. They will always be judged as people, as young men first, as students second, and as players third. And the priorities in our program, the responsibilities within our program, will always be reflective of those things.

[brewcity77]

Rubie, I think if a scholarship has qualifications and they aren't met, it's perfectly reasonable for the school to pull it.

Here's the issue people seem to have. When it comes to academic scholarships, it's okay to pull them because it's the professors grading the student's work and effort. When it comes to athletic scholarships, it's not okay to pull them because you are then allowing the coach to be the sole arbiter of the player's work and effort. It's the same thing, but for some inane reason, people want to hold the athletic department to a different standard.

[Rubie Q]

Rubie, I think if a scholarship has qualifications and they aren't met, it's perfectly reasonable for the school to pull it.

Here's the issue people seem to have. When it comes to academic scholarships, it's okay to pull them because it's the professors grading the student's work and effort. When it comes to athletic scholarships, it's not okay to pull them because you are then allowing the coach to be the sole arbiter of the player's work and effort. It's the same thing, but for some inane reason, people want to hold the athletic department to a different standard.

My only issue is: when Buzz says that the priorities of the program are the players, judged first as young men, second as students, and third as players, what am I supposed to make of it when somebody like Mbao leaves the program?

[GGGG]

Well, it's what he said at the press conference where he was introduced as head coach:

What I want you to know is you have my commitment, that as the steward of this program, the face of this program is always, always, forever, going to be about the players in the program. And the players in the program will not be judged always in accordance with their skill set or their talent. They will always be judged as people, as young men first, as students second, and as players third. And the priorities in our program, the responsibilities within our program, will always be reflective of those things.

Again, this reflects nothing what is said to players or parents during recruiting.

[Rubie Q]

Again, this reflects nothing what is said to players or parents during recruiting.

OK. How about this?

Wilson selected Marquette over other finalists Memphis and Missouri, and explained the reason why. "Coach Buzz Williams. Coach is a kind of guy that, when he was recruiting me, didn't talk about basketball, he talked about school, and what I wanted to do with my life after basketball. I really believe he will help me become a man."

http://www.brewcityball.com/forums/content.php?280-Dominican-s-Duane-Wilson-commits-to-Marquette-*Video*

[GGGG]

nm

[brewcity77]

My only issue is: when Buzz says that the priorities of the program are the players, judged first as young men, second as students, and third as players, what am I supposed to make of it when somebody like Mbao leaves the program?

First as young men. Young men that need to show commitment and dedication. Young men that need to accept the responsibility and the work that comes with being awarded a Marquette scholarship. Young men that need to continue working hard every day if they want to keep earning that scholarship.

If Mbao wasn't dedicating himself fully to the program and giving it 100%, I'd say that you're judging him first as a young man based on effort and commitment. If the young man doesn't have what it takes to cut it here (Roseboro, Mbao) then you do what you can to help him find a home that might be more his speed. It's easy to say "Buzz ran them off because he didn't produce", but is that really the case? Juan averaged fewer minutes than Mbao but he's still here, and I suspect it's because of his tireless effort.

And honestly, how many situations have we had like Mbao? Smith and Maymon left early on despite getting PT. Jones and Williams seemed to be mutual decisions for guys that wanted bigger roles. Are we going to include guys that never got here, like Durley (didn't do what was necessary as a senior to earn the scholarship) or Newbill (more valid case than Mbao, IMHO, though the staff's side could never come out)?

Regardless...shouldn't this thread be a positive rather than a negative? We are getting Embiid for the visit we so badly wanted. There's no reason to think Buzz is going to run off a guy like CO who he's been loyal to in the past, as he didn't do it with Cubillan or Fulce, both of whom were arguably more disappointing coming into their final seasons at Marquette. This is more a case of everyone trying to surmise what will happen in 6 months than trusting the people that likely already know who will and won't be here.

[Bocephys]

I'm so glad everyone here is such an expert on what Buzz actually tells recruits and their parents. How can I get a chance to listen into such conversations?

Knock up an athletic chick, wait 16 years, profit?

[esotericmindguy]

I'm so glad everyone here is such an expert on what Buzz actually tells recruits and their parents. How can I get a chance to listen into such conversations?

I'm so glad you're such an expert on what happens at closed door practices, meetings, classes, etc. Aren't you assuming as much as the rest of us?

[avid1010]

My only issue is: when Buzz says that the priorities of the program are the players, judged first as young men, second as students, and third as players, what am I supposed to make of it when somebody like Mbao leaves the program?

when i heard he was leaving i figured he sat down with buzz at the end of the year and buzz told him he didn't think there was a chance in hell he'd ever get minutes at mu.  is buzz helping mbao to be a better man by keeping him at mu, not getting him any playing time, and hindering his development?  hell, i care a great deal about my employees, and they know it...and when one of them works hard but can't hack it i do all i can to help them find a new position that fits their talents.

buzz does no good keeping mbao around to sit on the bench...instead find him a program where he'll get more minutes/development, and hopefully he'll cash paycheck playing overseas a few years from now.  also gets him an extra year of college.  i hope buzz is real...i have my moments of doubt as well...but i'd certainly want proof before calling him a fraud or acting like i know he's being dishonest with players. 

[Dreadman24]

Lol at all you guys who say that Buzz is a "fraud". Who gives a crap! It's all about winning..see Kentucky, see Duke, see UNC.

[brewcity77]

I think Buzz's speech last night was very telling. He talked about how when he arrived he didn't think Cooby or Acker could play and that sub-6-foot guards would never make it on his team. He pointed out how he froze Cooby out after his ole defense against Tennessee.

Buzz emphasized how he was trying to run Cooby off, trying to get him to quit, and never wanted to give him a chance, while at the same time scanning the lists of unsigned recruits he could replace him with. Bear in mind as Buzz told this story, David Cubillan was sitting right in front of him.

As determined as Buzz was to prove to Cooby that he couldn't play, Cooby was intent to prove he was. With a depleted roster the next year, Buzz had no choice but to play him. And as the next season went on, against Xavier and Michigan and FSU in Orlando, Cooby proved he could play an proved to Buzz that height and recruiting rankings weren't the only factors by which a player is measured.

Buzz talked about how much he learned from Cooby, and I think that addresses much of what we're talking about here. If you put in the work, if you never give up, Buzz won't give up on you. A few years ago he would've. With Cooby, he tried to. But he's learned that there's more than just rankings, and Buzz conveyed that he now thrives on finding the guys others missed.

He's still growing as a coach and a person, but I feel good about the guy we have, and I really think he'll do what's best for his players, even if sometimes that means making a tough decision.

[avid1010]

I think Buzz's speech last night was very telling.

Buzz emphasized how he was trying to run Cooby off, trying to get him to quit, and never wanted to give him a chance, while at the same time scanning the lists of unsigned recruits he could replace him with. Bear in mind as Buzz told this story, David Cubillan was sitting right in front of him.

Buzz talked about how much he learned from Cooby, and I think that addresses much of what we're talking about here. If you put in the work, if you never give up, Buzz won't give up on you. A few years ago he would've. With Cooby, he tried to. But he's learned that there's more than just rankings, and Buzz conveyed that he now thrives on finding the guys others missed.

so you mean buzz didn't want cobby on the team, but yet cooby kept his scholarship...kind of puts a hole in the argument that buzz runs players off anytime he thinks he can do better. 

[Earl Tatum]

Thought Jajuan Johnson was suppose to announce on Friday, or was it another dream.

[awilhelmscream]

Thought Jajuan Johnson was suppose to announce on Friday, or was it another dream.

November 2 IIRC

[LloydMooresLegs]

Yep

[4everwarriors]

KW has already heard from him.

[real chili 83]

I wonder if KW works for a satellite tv company?

[wadesworld]

Considering the fact that when a recruit leaves a campus following an official visit without verbally committing to that school he will never be back on that school's campus (unless he is playing against them during his college career), then I guess we can just go ahead and celebrate Embiid's commitment to Marquette as a result of Marquette being his last official visit!  I love people's reasoning on this board sometimes!

[lessthannick11]

So Embiid is visiting on Friday according to Dodds, Maybe Johnson can help out that visit if he announces Marquette that day and tries to get Joel to join him?

[wadesworld]

So Embiid is visiting on Friday according to Dodds, Maybe Johnson can help out that visit if he announces Marquette that day and tries to get Joel to join him?

Like a number of posters on this site have come to conclude, if a recruit does not commit while on his official visit, he will never commit to that school.  With Embiid having completed all of his official visits besides for Marquette without committing anywhere, he is ours.  He can't possibly commit anywhere else.  Look for the announcement on Monday.

Having said that, Johnson took his official to Marquette and he did not commit, so there is no chance that he is committing to Marquette.  Seeing that he has taken all of his official visits and has yet to commit, let's take a look at the departing flights out of Memphis to see what European country Johnson will be traveling to to announce, on his official visit there, that he will be playing a year in (Greece/Rome/wherever he's flying to right now) before going to the NBA.  He can't possibly be going to college...all of his officials have been completed and he did not commit anywhere while on campus.