Larry Williams: We need to avoid becoming Penn State

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

  I think people are too focused on the sexual abuse at Penn State.  I don't think LW is stating if we are not careful a coach will molest someone.  I think Penn State serves as a reminder of what happens when there are not checks and balances within the athletic department.  For that matter, ANY department.

+1000.

Some of you guys are really fucking dense sometimes.

[T-Bone]

  I think people are too focused on the sexual abuse at Penn State.  I don't think LW is stating if we are not careful a coach will molest someone.  I think Penn State serves as a reminder of what happens when there are not checks and balances within the athletic department.  For that matter, ANY department.

This is what I believe the point LW is making.  Not turning into SLU, or ND, or anyone else for that matter.  There is the ability to run a program that is successful on and off the court, and that seems to be his goal.

[StillWarriors]

This is what I believe the point LW is making.  Not turning into SLU, or ND, or anyone else for that matter.  There is the ability to run a program that is successful on and off the court, and that seems to be his goal.

I'd prefer he doing it without implicitly throwing his coach under the bus when he is interviewed.

[T-Bone]

I'd prefer he doing it without implicitly throwing his coach under the bus when he is interviewed.

What did he say in this article that implies throwing Buzz under the bus? 

[Lennys Tap]

Where does this whole idea of no checks and balances at Penn State come from? The allegations against Sandusky made their way through the proper channels from coaches to AD to Vice President to President. Once they reached the President's desk he decided PSU didn't need that kind of publicity. Should all the others gone outside the chain of command once the President decided to not follow through? Absolutely. But the biggest culprit, the guy who let this stuff languish on his desk, was the head of the school, not someone in the athletic department. Lots of checks, plenty of balances, and ultimately one big cover-up in spite of them.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Where does this whole idea of no checks and balances at Penn State come from? The allegations against Sandusky made their way through the proper channels from coaches to AD to Vice President to President. Once they reached the President's desk he decided PSU didn't need that kind of publicity. Should all the others gone outside the chain of command once the President decided to not follow through? Absolutely. But the biggest culprit, the guy who let this stuff languish on his desk, was the head of the school, not someone in the athletic department. Lots of checks, plenty of balances, and ultimately one big cover-up in spite of them.

Its a fair point, but the culture at Penn State was such that Joe was the king, and that's the problem.

School's are now ensuring that the head coach has a boss with (real) authority and a hierarchy that functions properly.

This isn't to say MU hasn't had a proper hierarchy in the past, but the topic is coming up with every school and every AD right now. I'm fine with MU commenting on it.

[Groin_pull]

Can we just slap a muzzle on Larry? We're hearing way too much from him. This clown craves the spotlight...not what you want in an AD.

[GGGG]

Can we just slap a muzzle on Larry? We're hearing way too much from him. This clown craves the spotlight...not what you want in an AD.

He was interviewed by Marquette Magazine.  Obviously they *want* him saying what he said.

And again, he didn't say anything bad....people's biases make it that way though.

[Lennys Tap]

Its a fair point, but the culture at Penn State was such that Joe was the king, and that's the problem.

School's are now ensuring that the head coach has a boss with (real) authority and a hierarchy that functions properly.

This isn't to say MU hasn't had a proper hierarchy in the past, but the topic is coming up with every school and every AD right now. I'm fine with MU commenting on it.

I would argue that the problem was that the President didn't do his job and that nobody went over his head when he didn't. Ironic that university President's are acting like the PSU guy didn't do his job because he was intimidated by Paterno. Grabbing the moral highground because one of their own ceded it - go figure.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I would argue that the problem was that the President didn't do his job and that nobody went over his head when he didn't. Ironic that university President's are acting like the PSU guy didn't do his job because he was intimidated by Paterno. Grabbing the moral highground because one of their own ceded it - go figure.

You're right. The president is definitely to blame.

What happened at PSU isn't all Paterno's fault. It was cultural problem that the school set in motion long before Uncle Jerry was ever in the shower.

When you start letting athletic success determine your moral compass, it's going to end poorly.

Schools are going out of their way to make sure this doesn't happen.

[Lennys Tap]

He was interviewed by Marquette Magazine.  Obviously they *want* him saying what he said.

And again, he didn't say anything bad....people's biases make it that way though.

I agree. He was sent out there to trumpet administration talking points. Along the way he revealed some things about how he views himself and the world around him.

Nothing bad, I guess, but some stuff that reinforces the fact that he's not my cup of tea.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I agree. He was sent out there to trumpet administration talking points. Along the way he revealed some things about how he views himself and the world around him.

Nothing bad, I guess, but some stuff that reinforces the fact that he's not my cup of tea.

He didn't "reveal" anything.  You are choosing to interpret his words based on your own biases and pre-existing opinions.  

EDIT:  Not just you Lenny...others are doing the same.

[Pakuni]

Where does this whole idea of no checks and balances at Penn State come from? The allegations against Sandusky made their way through the proper channels from coaches to AD to Vice President to President. Once they reached the President's desk he decided PSU didn't need that kind of publicity. Should all the others gone outside the chain of command once the President decided to not follow through? Absolutely. But the biggest culprit, the guy who let this stuff languish on his desk, was the head of the school, not someone in the athletic department. Lots of checks, plenty of balances, and ultimately one big cover-up in spite of them.

You're right in part, but the problem is that while the official chain of command at PSU went from asst. coach to head coach to AD all the way to president, the reality was that JoePa sat atop the food chain. Perhaps not in name, but Paterno held and wielded far more power on that campus than the president or anyone else. Officially speaking, the president held authority over JoePa. And officially speaking, Erik Spoelstra has authority over LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade. In reality, neither statement is true.
It's obvious that the administration shouldn't have sacrificed a bunch of kids for the good of the football program, but the culture there dictated that nothing mattered more than the good of the football program, including those kids being molested. Football was the identity of Penn State, how it was known on the national stage, the biggest engine for donations, etc., and the Sandusky situation happened because that mentality was allowed (and encouraged) to flourish.

I think that's what has some of us questioning the mentality sometimes present here that says nothing matters at Marquette more than keeping Buzz happy, or that basketball is the "soul" of Marquette. Yes, basketball is hugely important and yes, the administration should make all reasonable efforts to keep a successful coach. And clearly nobody thinks Buzz or anyone else associated with the program has done (or will do)  anything comparable to the PSU situation. But the mentality that says nothing matters more than a sports program is inviting trouble.

[Lennys Tap]

He didn't "reveal" anything.  You are choosing to interpret his words based on your own biases and pre-existing opinions.  

EDIT:  Not just you Lenny...others are doing the same.

So, when I or others who share my conclusions interpret his words we are biased. When you and others of your ilk do the same you're being objective. How fortunate for you and the other clear headed, fair minded people who share your opinion. Talk about bias....

[Lennys Tap]

You're right in part, but the problem is that while the official chain of command at PSU went from asst. coach to head coach to AD all the way to president, the reality was that JoePa sat atop the food chain. Perhaps not in name, but Paterno held and wielded far more power on that campus than the president or anyone else. Officially speaking, the president held authority over JoePa. And officially speaking, Erik Spoelstra has authority over LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade. In reality, neither statement is true.
It's obvious that the administration shouldn't have sacrificed a bunch of kids for the good of the football program, but the culture there dictated that nothing mattered more than the good of the football program, including those kids being molested. Football was the identity of Penn State, how it was known on the national stage, the biggest engine for donations, etc., and the Sandusky situation happened because that mentality was allowed (and encouraged) to flourish.

I think that's what has some of us questioning the mentality sometimes present here that says nothing matters at Marquette more than keeping Buzz happy, or that basketball is the "soul" of Marquette. Yes, basketball is hugely important and yes, the administration should make all reasonable efforts to keep a successful coach. And clearly nobody thinks Buzz or anyone else associated with the program has done (or will do)  anything comparable to the PSU situation. But the mentality that says nothing matters more than a sports program is inviting trouble.

Well, if you're right that this thing went up the chain of command and then the president went back to Paterno for his instructions then I agree with you. I wasn't aware that's how it happened.

As regards MU, I don't think anyone want Buzz running a renegade or unsupervised program - but I've not seen any evidence that was the case.

[ATL MU Warrior]

So, when I or others who share my conclusions interpret his words we are biased. When you and others of your ilk do the same you're being objective. How fortunate for you and the other clear headed, fair minded people who share your opinion. Talk about bias....

Of course not.  We all inject our own biases into how we interpret information.  You (and group of others) believe Larry Williams is out to run Buzz off and destroy MU basketball, the crown jewel of his new empire, the process.  When presented with seemingly innocuous statements in the school's own magazine, you interpret them as Larry "revealing something about himself and the world around him". 

I (and a group of others) who don't buy into the Larry Williams is an egomaniacal bumbling Satan-worshipper intent on destroying MU basketball bullsh!t don't have the same bias (we have others I am sure) so we interpret those same statements differently. 

Who's right?  Who knows. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Why would LW use Penn State as an example of people in power having the ability to sweep things (like sexual abuse) under the rug when he could use the Catholic Church?

[Pakuni]

Why would LW use Penn State as an example of people in power having the ability to sweep things (like sexual abuse) under the rug when he could use the Catholic Church?

Perhaps because Penn State is more relevant to an athletic director answering questions about an athletic department. Now, if Larry were a bishop your point might be well taken.

[MUBurrow]

the cult of Buzz makes me really uncomfortable.

[tower912]

I see Buzz as a fallible human being who is a really good coach, a true spiritual successor to Al.       I see Larry Williams as the unholy offspring of a mating between Bob Dukiet and Matt Millen.   

[ecc5051]

So why was the last AD fired if everything is perfect at MU?

[ATL MU Warrior]

I see Buzz as a fallible human being who is a really good coach, a true spiritual successor to Al.       I see Larry Williams as the unholy offspring of a mating between Bob Dukiet and Matt Millen.   

I guess you fall in the group with Lenny then 

[tower912]

Not always, but I can't say that Larry has done much that hasn't irked me since he became AD.   I continue to try to view everything he does objectively, because I don't want  to have an irrational dislike of the guy that clouds everything he does.  He just continues to do and say thinks that rankle.     I just thought the Dukiet-Millen thing was funny.

But to the crux of Chico's article.    Winning the right way is important.    And maybe he believes that we need 5 years to judge AD's too.    But MU lost it's way from a basketball standpoint once.   There were mutterings as the program spiraled downward under Dukiet that maybe MU should drop to D2.    A series of bad coaches and AD's can do that.    Ask DePaul.    Ask ND football as of 3 years ago.     Ask St. John's.     Ask Boston College.      MU is fortunate to have recovered.    A series of good choices by an AD brought the basketball program back to a high level.   That guy has retired.    A series of poor decisions by the current AD can, to borrow an overused cliche, take us to SLU's level.   Or Loyola's.   As a Detroit Lion's fan, I know what a bad GM can do.    So, yeah, I sense a Millen-esque aura around Larry.    Just like our former bailbondsman on our current coach, I hope I am proven wrong.  

[4everwarriors]

MU survived the reign of Sam Sauceda, who as an AD, made an ok foreign language teacher.

[Newsdreams]

To me an issue that keeps on being swept under the rug is that the way the whole sexual assault incident was handled was done as per MU's institutional policy. Thus the failure was institutional, and not the responsibility of individuals. Those responsible on keeping institutional policies up to date with federal/local laws failed the institution. Besides the sexual assault issue nothing else is a major problem at least from my perspective. Everything else has been blown out of proportion due to the sexual assault incident.