Larry Williams: We need to avoid becoming Penn State

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Ummm ... yeah.
This isn't in the press. It's the quarterly Marquette Magazine. Chances are, this interview was conducted weeks ago.

I stand corrected --- through MU's mouthpiece. If something was done wrong; expose it and fire the individual. This just seems passive aggressive.

[NersEllenson]

I expect the steady "drip campaign" of passive aggressive crap to continue from Admin/LW.  Even referencing Penn State in this article, and that even a coach of Joe Paterno's tenure and accomplishment - isn't immune from being fired - is setting the stage.  What's ALLEGEDLY happened at MU and Penn State are so different, to even associate the 2 in an article is just silly.

It is going to be absolutely comical to watch what happens with MU hoops if Buzz leaves at the end of this year.  Buzz's network is LARGE...don't think for a minute candidates considering the job might put in a call to Buzz and see what's up.  At this rate, doubt he'd give a wringing endorsement of the situation.  Goose's point months ago about us returning to the level of a SLU may ring frighteningly true.  Have to be an absolute idiot to be handed the keys to a Ferrari program and trash it into a Kia. 

Only hope I see in this is that the recruiting class Buzz has coming in, along with his loyalty to current players, along with his kids being 5-6 years into Milwaukee, and wife reportedly liking it - that those factors are enough to remain....and deal with a guy who was proud to proclaim he was studying and his friends aren't doing so well.  The guy acts like he's a coach, yet he hasn't coached sh*t.  Why didn't they guy go into coaching if he were such a great leader of men?  Most guys satisfy their competitive thirst when leaving the game by coaching....not as an A.D., who has nothing to do with recruiting the players that make a team a winner or loser.

[Earl Tatum]

What in the H--- is going on with you guys. Buzz has brought MU to heights it has not been before since Al. "Tan Tommy" was a fluke. Buzz has not done anything wrong. (Not Proven) It's exciting basketball. Whatever Buzz has done wrong is heresay until proven wrong. Don't tell me SEC teams, ACC teams and some BE teams lose players or players are released by coaches. I think Calipari,Donovan and Pitino are the biggest cheaters. I think the biggest JERK IS WILLIAMS. Where in hell did we find this guy and
whoever hired him doesn't care for sports and BASKETBALL is the biggest sport MU has. Until some wrongdoing is done--just
SIMMERDOWN! PENN STATE, I don't think so.

[mr.MUskie]

Goose, i'm not up on my MU hierarchy.  Who exactly is Benny B?  Are you saying that LW is just his puppet and BB is the one we have to worry about?

[JoBo2756]

you guys are making a mountain over a mole hill. This isn't anything to get excited about.

People love Buzz, but he's going to leave at some point, probably in the next two years -- let's just enjoy it while he is here.

And give Larry a break. He's a Domer (and I hate Domers) but he's our Domer and wants the best for MU basketball. And he came from the University of Portland... he's still got something to prove too.

Sick of the negativity here. Please let this season begin so we can start talking about basketball again... PLEASE!

[martyconlonontherun]

What in the H--- is going on with you guys. Buzz has brought MU to heights it has not been before since Al. "Tan Tommy" was a fluke. Buzz has not done anything wrong. (Not Proven) It's exciting basketball. Whatever Buzz has done wrong is heresay until proven wrong. Don't tell me SEC teams, ACC teams and some BE teams lose players or players are released by coaches. I think Calipari,Donovan and Pitino are the biggest cheaters. I think the biggest JERK IS WILLIAMS. Where in hell did we find this guy and
whoever hired him doesn't care for sports and BASKETBALL is the biggest sport MU has. Until some wrongdoing is done--just
SIMMERDOWN! PENN STATE, I don't think so.

Couldn't the same be said about posters like you regarding LW? He has done nothing wrong and has only said he is looking to make sure Marquette stays a school with high integrity. Anything that is said otherwise is heresay. 

[LAZER]

you guys are making a mountain over a mole hill. This isn't anything to get excited about.

People love Buzz, but he's going to leave at some point, probably in the next two years -- let's just enjoy it while he is here.

And give Larry a break. He's a Domer (and I hate Domers) but he's our Domer and wants the best for MU basketball. And he came from the University of Portland... he's still got something to prove too.

Sick of the negativity here. Please let this season begin so we can start talking about basketball again... PLEASE!

If Buzz leaves in the next couple years, where is he going to go? Obviously it's pointless to speculate which jobs will be open, but there aren't too many schools out there willing to fork over ~2.5mm a year on their hoops coach.  That ones that are, will be looking at candidates just as qualified, if not more qualified as Buzz.

[KenoshaWarrior]

What in the H--- is going on with you guys. Buzz has brought MU to heights it has not been before since Al. "Tan Tommy" was a fluke. Buzz has not done anything wrong. (Not Proven) It's exciting basketball. Whatever Buzz has done wrong is heresay until proven wrong. Don't tell me SEC teams, ACC teams and some BE teams lose players or players are released by coaches. I think Calipari,Donovan and Pitino are the biggest cheaters. I think the biggest JERK IS WILLIAMS. Where in hell did we find this guy and
whoever hired him doesn't care for sports and BASKETBALL is the biggest sport MU has. Until some wrongdoing is done--just
SIMMERDOWN! PENN STATE, I don't think so.

This isnt even .0000000000000000000001 percent of what Penn State was. For Larry to even say that is tacky

[NersEllenson]

Couldn't the same be said about posters like you regarding LW? He has done nothing wrong and has only said he is looking to make sure Marquette stays a school with high integrity. Anything that is said otherwise is heresay. 

Nope - Other than either being directed by Pilarz, or on his own - taking the relationship from Buzz wanting to be a lifer at MU, to seriously considering leaving for SM-freaking U.

MU hoops is about to hit its pinnacle since the days of Al, and Pilarz and LW are making mountains out of molehills with regard to Buzz doing a 2-step after a win at WVU, and a few scrapes with the law some of his players have had with the law.  Granted, no college students at other universities go to bars and DON'T DRINK, but hang out illegally due to being under 21.  The occasional scrape with the law is par for the course at virtually every high major university, mid major, and D-3 university - because we are dealing with 18-22 year old men...which is the time most men get into a little trouble in life.  Jesus.  Even the amazing Larry Williams had some self admitted academic and defiance issues.

[GGGG]

This article was 1,550 words.  It is SOOOO Scoop to nit-pick the 122 words on Penn State, which is a HUGE story on how athletics can blind everyone at a University to what its primary mission should be, and largely gloss over this one.

"We are NOT de-emphasizing basketball," he declares. "I expect us to compete for national championships, and I believe we'll have the means to do it at Marquette, but there's more to it than that. We're going to do it the right way. We can be a beacon for what's good in college athletics."  

[BubbaWilliams]

How often do you think that LW brings up that he went to Notre Dame?

[Husker4MU]

This article was 1,550 words.  It is SOOOO Scoop to nit-pick the 122 words on Penn State, which is a HUGE story on how athletics can blind everyone at a University to what its primary mission should be, and largely gloss over this one.

"We are NOT de-emphasizing basketball," he declares. "I expect us to compete for national championships, and I believe we'll have the means to do it at Marquette, but there's more to it than that. We're going to do it the right way. We can be a beacon for what's good in college athletics."  

Whoa whoa whoa- why would anyone quote something that doesn't support their tin foil hat conspiracy?

[ringout]

I think he really comes across as a bit of an ass with all the talk about how he was studying and his friends aren't doing as we'll as he is.  Congrats on your visionary nature, now Get over yourself.

I read a real sadness on LW's part re.  his friends.

I was as big a believer in JoePa as anyone.  Thought the guy really had perspective, but it is obvious now that he was bigger than the program.  I think all ADs need to examine their programs with a post PSU view now.

[Pakuni]

This article was 1,550 words.  It is SOOOO Scoop to nit-pick the 122 words on Penn State, which is a HUGE story on how athletics can blind everyone at a University to what its primary mission should be, and largely gloss over this one.

"We are NOT de-emphasizing basketball," he declares. "I expect us to compete for national championships, and I believe we'll have the means to do it at Marquette, but there's more to it than that. We're going to do it the right way. We can be a beacon for what's good in college athletics."  

Nor does it seem to matter that nothing LW said remotely compares the MU situation to Penn State.

Funny that no one seems to mind that Buzz stands before the press and repeatedly volunteers his story of camping out in hotel lobbies, writing hundreds of coaches and sweeping gym floors (I don't mind either, it's a great story)yet when LW tells his story in an interview for a school publication, he's an arrogant tool?
Pretty obvious some of you are going to twist your balls in a knot to be critical with whatever the guy does.

[5993mcguirm]

This is the first time I've seen Larry Williams... I had no Jim Cramer was our AD! 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

This isnt even .0000000000000000000001 percent of what Penn State was. For Larry to even say that is tacky

When people refer to "Penn State" in this context, they aren't referring to child molestation.

They are referring to a university culture that valued it's athletic program so much that the coach was given absolute power in order to keep the wins coming and the reputation in tact.

After seeing the Penn State's demise, other athletic departments are putting checks and balances in place to ensure this type of leadership and culture doesn't develop.

Penn State isn't a lesson is molestation. It's a lesson in a corrupt culture that allowed the molestation to happen over and over.

[jsglow]

When people refer to "Penn State" in this context, they aren't referring to child molestation.

They are referring to a university culture that valued it's athletic program so much that the coach was given absolute power in order to keep the wins coming and the reputation in tact.

After seeing the Penn State's demise, other athletic departments are putting checks and balances in place to ensure this type of leadership and culture doesn't develop.

Penn State isn't a lesson is molestation. It's a lesson in a corrupt culture that allowed the molestation to happen over and over.

Yep.  And I truly believe that LW and Fr. P are committed to the concept that Athletics should never 'run' the university nor is it the most important facet, by far.  I fully believe Buzz wholeheartedly supports that notion.  Lastly, everything I've heard directly is that our top Freshman is a darn serious and capable student and is thrilled with the opportunity to get a top notch education at a great institution while simultaneously striving for basketball greatness.  Isn't that exactly what we all want for him (and the others) too?  Wanna bet that the moms at MM where telling Jajuan's mom exactly that?

[MarquetteDano]

I understand the concern some have that Buzz may leave.  However there must be checks and balances.  Our country is founded on checks and balances.  We may not always like what the courts do, senate, president, etc. but none of them has total power.

That is what is required in an athletics department as well.  If Buzz doesn't like it then he may leave.  I am sure there are plenty of schools out there that will give Buzz total control and the A.D. is just a puppet.  And that is the type of school that is destined to be the next Penn State.

[Bieberhole69]

I understand the concern some have that Buzz may leave.  However there must be checks and balances.  Our country is founded on checks and balances.  We may not always like what the courts do, senate, president, etc. but none of them has total power.

That is what is required in an athletics department as well.  If Buzz doesn't like it then he may leave.  I am sure there are plenty of schools out there that will give Buzz total control and the A.D. is just a puppet.  And that is the type of school that is destined to be the next Penn State.

Wait, so you're saying Buzz is a pedophile??

[MarquetteDano]

Wait, so you're saying Buzz is a pedophile??

Yeah, that is what I am saying.    

No.  What I am saying is that the type of school that allows it Head Basketball coach to do what whatever he wants is destined to be the next Penn State.

[Lennys Tap]

Nor does it seem to matter that nothing LW said remotely compares the MU situation to Penn State.

Funny that no one seems to mind that Buzz stands before the press and repeatedly volunteers his story of camping out in hotel lobbies, writing hundreds of coaches and sweeping gym floors (I don't mind either, it's a great story)yet when LW tells his story in an interview for a school publication, he's an arrogant tool?
Pretty obvious some of you are going to twist your balls in a knot to be critical with whatever the guy does.

Buzz's is a Cinderella story, the epitome of the American Dream of something from nothing. And in every chapter the gratitude Buzz feels toward those who helped him realize it is palpable.

Larry's story (as he himself tells it) is of a gifted athlete from priviledge (Mater Dei) who suceeds on his own. The only gratitude he expresses is to himself for having the foresight and work ethic that his peers lacked.

They're both successful and their accomplishments should be admired but if you can't see stark differences in who these guys are, well....

[Blue Horseshoe]

"We're not a minor league for pro sports franchises,"
Apparently Williams is unaware that pro sports leagues do indeed bar high school seniors from direct entry. Thus, they have indeed put the pressure on the NCAA to be their minor league system.

[dgies9156]

Gag me!

Let's recognize the facts:
   1) Marquette isn't close to being Penn State. Never has been and with the Catholic Church's recent commitment to the protection of our youth, it never will be. Given what has happened at Catholic institutions in recent years, our church is out front at making sure this does not happen. IT GOES TO EVERY CATHOLIC ENTITY, including those not graced with Larry Williams.

   2) Larry, in case you haven't looked, our graduation rate among student athletes is among the best in the United States. I think even better than your vaunted Notre Dame. Our kids come here, get educated and go out into the world. Sure, we have our screw-ups, but that's part of being a pluralistic society. Our ballplayers are lawyers, entrepreneurs, engineers, teachers, dentists etc. We don't need no uppity Domer to mess with success. Have you checked with Ulice Payne lately? Or how about Bo Ellis and the work he has done? Or Dr. Jerry Homan? Or Glenn Rivers? Bet you have met him... haven't you!

   3) Let's face it Larry, your beloved Domers were known by their football. You think 100 people from outside the State of Indiana would give a cr_p about anything Notre Dame if it weren't for football. And your beloved Domers were dumb enough to send a young man up on a portable lift in a heavy windstorm. I don't believe they're still debating that issue today. And we won't talk about St. Mary's, Larry!

Bottom line: Don't mess with Happy! If you have to, remember where the cash flow for your job comes from.

[T-Bone]

This thread got me thinking about the intersection between APR and RPI, does it exist? 

I put together a spreadsheet and color-coded it for APR-RPI values from the 2010-11 season.  While the APR numbers are not necessarily indicative of how good any University is academically, I think it shows some interesting trends. 

It does seem that there may be some correlation (coincidental or not [which may be using terminology loosely - who cares]) between a schools APR and the school's success on the court. 

As APR is a rolling 4 year, it might make sense to put together an averaged RPI for four years and see if that changes what it looks like. 

This ain't scientific. 
There's tons of other information not here. 
- How much money a university dedicates to their program; academic support is probably better funded at Kansas than Alabama State. 
- Overall academic performance
- Other sports APR
- etc, etc, etc. 

Interesting bits:
UConn surrounded by a sea of red at the bottom of the chart.
Missouri State???   39 RPI???  That year Cuonzo Martin led them into the second round of the NIT before taking off to Tennessee.
SDSU went to the Sweet 16, which was part of the 3rd ranked RPI.

If anyone wants a copy of the original spreadsheet to run more data, PM me. 
Also, if anyone knows of better information out there, please post it.

[MarquetteDano]

Gag me!

   1) Marquette isn't close to being Penn State. Never has been and with the Catholic Church's recent commitment to the protection of our youth, it never will be. Given what has happened at Catholic institutions in recent years, our church is out front at making sure this does not happen. IT GOES TO EVERY CATHOLIC ENTITY, including those not graced with Larry Williams.

  I think people are too focused on the sexual abuse at Penn State.  I don't think LW is stating if we are not careful a coach will molest someone.  I think Penn State serves as a reminder of what happens when there are not checks and balances within the athletic department.  For that matter, ANY department.