Buzz and Larry Williams Aren't Bosom Buddies...

[KenoshaWarrior]

Larry better be pretty f****** confident about potential replacements.

Well said

[Goose]

He has had five months of prep work on identifying replacement list already. I agree it better be some list.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

The University of San Diego actually has a very good law school.

I'd hardly call number 65 in USNWR and probably the sixth or seventh best law school in the state a "very good law school".

[LAZER]

I'd hardly call number 65 in USNWR and probably the sixth or seventh best law school in the state a "very good law school".

What does that make Marquette?

[Sir Lawrence]

What does that make Marquette?

95th.

[Rubie Q]

What does that make Marquette?

Downright awful, apparently.

[Pakuni]

I'd hardly call number 65 in USNWR and probably the sixth or seventh best law school in the state a "very good law school".

The fact that you're now debating the quality of the U.  of San Diego Law School shoes how utterly asinine the LW bashing has become. The guy earned a law degree from, yes, a good school while playing in the NFL (which I'd suggest is how he ended up at USD). Clearly a bright and motivated guy. That doesn't necessarily mean he is a good AD, but questioning his education is stupid.

[Sir Lawrence]

Interesting:

University of San Diego School of Law, notable alumni:

Theo Epstein, 2000, President of Baseball Operations for the Chicago Cubs

[NersEllenson]

OK, maybe this is sacrilege to some, but Buzz is not the best MU coach since McGuire. He may even have to battle O'Neill for third best.
Yeah, Crean is a douche, but:
One Final Four >>>>>>>> Two Sweet Sixteens
Wade, Diener, Novak >>>>>>>> Butler, Crowder, DJO
I won't give Crean total credit for the Big East and Al (because he doesn't deserve total credit) but he was the the leader and face of the program when those things happened.
And, unless I'm mistaken Crean took over an IU program in the dumps and after four years has them the #1 ranked team in the country.
Buzz still has a ways to go to top the things that Crean did and is doing.

O'Neill got this program to the Sweet 16 (and was still on the rise when he left) without any of the advantages Buzz has.  He was 44-17 (.721) his final two seasons at MU. Buzz is 49-22 the past two (.690).

It's not the open-and-shut case you want to make it, and if nothing else it proves that landing a quality coach at Marquette is hardly akin to winning the lottery once every five decades. Fact is, three of MU's last four coaches have been very successful.

Sure hope you aren't responsible for hiring people, because as a talent evaluator, you are awful.  Wade couldn't have even come here if we were in the Big East...no BCS schools could even recruit him...due to his partial qualifier status.  Wade = Final Four.  Travis Diener and Steve Novak along with Scott Merritt and the rest of the Final Four team sans Wade and Jackson = Back to Back NIT.  Crean = Working under Father Wild and Bill Cords - champions of athletics.  Buzz now working with totally different Administration with clearly a different view on athletics.

O'Neill was great - yet comparing the record of a coach, coaching in the MCC, and Great Midwest Conference, as opposed to one who has coached exclusively in the most difficult conference in America all 4 years is apples to oranges.

Lastly, back to back Sweet 16's haven't happened at MU since Al McGuire....35+ years...so if getting great coaches at MU is so easy, why did it take us 35 years to get to back to back Sweet 16s...and just 4 in the last 35 years total - which I believe is exactly what Xavier has accomplished in the last 6 years.  Program and depth of talent in it are better than anytime since Al.

Get a clue Pakuni.

[rocky_warrior]

I shouldn't be shocked that the thread title "Buzz and Larry Williams Aren't Bosom Buddies..." has generated 5 pages already, but I still am.

I mean, if someone walked up to me on the street and said "Buzz and Larry Williams Aren't Bosom Buddies...", I'd probably say, "No doubt!  But then again I'm not bosom buddies with my boss either".

[Ellenson Guerrero]

The fact that you're now debating the quality of the U.  of San Diego Law School shoes how utterly asinine the LW bashing has become. The guy earned a law degree from, yes, a good school while playing in the NFL (which I'd suggest is how he ended up at USD). Clearly a bright and motivated guy. That doesn't necessarily mean he is a good AD, but questioning his education is stupid.

My point wasn't the quality of his alma mater, it was the tone of the article. I'm so motivated that I went to law school while other guys played cards on the team flight. They are now struggling, I'm doing great, so it's my duty to save our current players from those same mistakes. He just comes off as the "I know best", "I will save others from themselves"-type, which annoys me.

[mu_hilltopper]

What a mess.

[NersEllenson]

My point wasn't the quality of his alma mater, it was the tone of the article. I'm so motivated that I went to law school while other guys played cards on the team flight. They are now struggling, I'm doing great, so it's my duty to save our current players from those same mistakes. He just comes off as the "I know best", "I will save others from themselves"-type, which annoys me.

Kind of reminds of "I'm looking forward to helping him grow as a coach."  Or, "He ties his tie too tight - and he will either irrevocably offend someone or his head will explode."

[MerrittsMustache]

My point wasn't the quality of his alma mater, it was the tone of the article. I'm so motivated that I went to law school while other guys played cards on the team flight. They are now struggling, I'm doing great, so it's my duty to save our current players from those same mistakes. He just comes off as the "I know best", "I will save others from themselves"-type, which annoys me.

The tone comes across as a little holier than thou but I have no problem with him making the point that a lot of athletes don't prepare themselves for life after athletics and he doesn't want to see MU athletes fall into that trap.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I agree. When LW gives his vision of what MU can become (a beacon for what's good in college athletics), by definition he's ripping what came before. Any coach (especially one as concerned about his players as Buzz is) would be offended. Hell, as an alum and 46 year fan of what I consider to be a program than has generally done it the right way, I'm offended. His self importance should be offensive to everyone.

I think Larry's comments are the equivalent of telling your wife/girlfriend/mistress:

"You look really good tonight."

and her firing back:

"Don't I look good every night? What are you trying to say?"

It appears like Larry is trying to say the right thing(s), but fans are already on the defensive and certainly nitpicking everything the guy says.

[Pakuni]

I think Larry's comments are the equivalent of telling your wife/girlfriend/mistress:

"You look really good tonight."

and her firing back:

"Don't I look good every night? What are you trying to say?"

It appears like Larry is trying to say the right thing(s), but fans are already on the defensive and certainly nitpicking everything the guy says.

When Buzz was introduced as head coach, he said his priority would be to develop his players as students, athletes and people.
Obviously he believes prior MU coaches didn't do that.

[BrewCity83]

"I don't think Larry (+ Fr. Pilarz) and Buzz are bosom buddies" IS pretty much where I left it. A lot of people shared information, and my ONLY nugget was from someone inside the athletic department. In April 2011, this source said Buzz was very happy and hoped to be a Marquette lifer. By February 2012, this same source said that Buzz was miserable. What EXACTLY happened to mess with happy? Don't know, and never said I did. But it doesn't take Holmesian powers of deduction to figure what changed between those two dates.
So, again, I have no idea what the specifics are regarding the rift between the administration and Buzz and really don't want to argue over them. Hiroshima, to me, isn't changed academic standards, dorm policies or any single administration mandate. My Hiroshima would be losing the best coach and representative Marquette University has had since Al McGuire because he feels a once ideal workplace isn't anymore. IMO there are scores of people who could replace Fr Pilarz or LW - MU would barely feel the ripple. OTOH, Buzz is MU's 2nd winning lottery ticket (along with Al) in the last 50 years. The odds against a third are very long.

Lenny, this makes sense to me.  What does your source in the Athletic Department say about Buzz's "Level of Happy" here in October 2012?  Has he improved from miserable at all?

[Lennys Tap]

I

OK, maybe this is sacrilege to some, but Buzz is not the best MU coach since McGuire. He may even have to battle O'Neill for third best.
Yeah, Crean is a douche, but:
One Final Four >>>>>>>> Two Sweet Sixteens
Wade, Diener, Novak >>>>>>>> Butler, Crowder, DJO
I won't give Crean total credit for the Big East and Al (because he doesn't deserve total credit) but he was the the leader and face of the program when those things happened.
And, unless I'm mistaken Crean took over an IU program in the dumps and after four years has them the #1 ranked team in the country.
Buzz still has a ways to go to top the things that Crean did and is doing.

O'Neill got this program to the Sweet 16 (and was still on the rise when he left) without any of the advantages Buzz has.  He was 44-17 (.721) his final two seasons at MU. Buzz is 49-22 the past two (.690).

It's not the open-and-shut case you want to make it, and if nothing else it proves that landing a quality coach at Marquette is hardly akin to winning the lottery once every five decades. Fact is, three of MU's last four coaches have been very successful.

Buzz's record is better, he's made the NCAA tournament every year (Crean was 5-9). In 4 years he's won as many NCAA tournament games as TC did in 9. Even more important is the the trajectory Buzz has us on. If he stays MU is positioned to be even better in Buzz's next 4 years. The Crean era peaked in years 3 and 4, his final 5 years producing a grand total of 1 NCAA tournament victory and 2 NIT appearances.
I could go on, but it's pointless to argue with an extreme outlier opinion that ranks Buzz tied for 3rd with KO among MU's alltime coaches. Has Chicos or Hoop hacked into your computer?

[Pakuni]

I
Buzz's record is better, he's made the NCAA tournament every year (Crean was 5-9). In 4 years he's won as many NCAA tournament games as TC did in 9. Even more important is the the trajectory Buzz has us on. If he stays MU is positioned to be even better in Buzz's next 4 years. The Crean era peaked in years 3 and 4, his final 5 years producing a grand total of 1 NCAA tournament victory and 2 NIT appearances.
I could go on, but it's pointless to argue with an extreme outlier opinion that ranks Buzz tied for 3rd with KO among MU's alltime coaches. Has Chicos or Hoop hacked into your computer?

You've put me in the unenviable position of defending Tom Crean.
Your analysis conveniently ignores the fact that Buzz took over a borderline top 10 team ( #11 in the preseason rankings his first year, top 10 three weeks into the season) and a program that had been to the tournament three years running, whereas Crean took over a program that couldn't even get an NIT bid. Think perhaps that's relevant when comparing overall records? Not to mention the numerous other advantanges Buzz inherited - conference affiliation, track record of recent success, facilities, etc. - that Crean didn't.

FWIW, rankings this year by Athlon Sports and CBS Sportsline (based on a poll of coaches) place Crean ahead of Buzz in the coaching hierarchy. I can only assume those coaches are a bunch of extreme outliers.

We could go round and round about O'Neill, but the fact is he ultimately achieved what Buzz achieved (getting to the Sweet 16) without any of the financial, fiscal or facility advantages the program has today. I think that's a strong argument that O'Neill did as good a coaching job as Buzz has. You're free to disagree, but at least tell me why O'Neill, in your opinion, did a lesser job than Buzz under their respective circumstances, starting with the state of the programs they took over.

[Goose]

KO saved the program. Buzz has been building an elite program. Both guys rank over TC IMO and I am not an anti TC guy.

[Pakuni]

KO saved the program. Buzz has been building an elite program. Both guys rank over TC IMO and I am not an anti TC guy.

That's fair. I think what KO did at MU is greatly undervalued, probably more because of his personality than anything else. KO saved Marquette from becoming Loyola or Detroit.

[Groin_pull]

That's fair. I think what KO did at MU is greatly undervalued, probably more because of his personality than anything else. KO saved Marquette from becoming Loyola or Detroit.

+1,000

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

That's fair. I think what KO did at MU is greatly undervalued, probably more because of his personality than anything else. KO saved Marquette from becoming Loyola or Detroit.

If KO save MU from becoming Loyola, could we say that TC saved MU from becoming DePaul?

[madtownwarrior]

I think we will get a clue on how big the rift is on Nov 14...

[Warriors 79]

This entire thread is why even high school coaches tell their athletes to PLEASE stay off of message boards. In the spirit of Coach Al, who would never have even acknowledged a message board existed had he coached in this era, please drop this thread completely and let's speculate on something other than tin foil folded into a million permutations.

I know, not gonna happen. Hey Rocky, play Samantha Stevens and make it all go away....