Buzz and Larry Williams Aren't Bosom Buddies...

[Henry Sugar]

This entire thread

[Lennys Tap]

We could go round and round about O'Neill, but the fact is he ultimately achieved what Buzz achieved (getting to the Sweet 16) without any of the financial, fiscal or facility advantages the program has today. I think that's a strong argument that O'Neill did as good a coaching job as Buzz has. You're free to disagree, but at least tell me why O'Neill, in your opinion, did a lesser job than Buzz under their respective circumstances, starting with the state of the programs they took over.

I really like KO as a coach. Rank him just behind Buzz and ahead of TC.

You're right that Buzz inherted a better team than TC, but he also lost almost that entire team, two transfers and two top recruits by year 2. He totally rebuilt the program, and I think we're in much better shape entering year 5 with Buzz than we were with Crean.

[The Equalizer]

That's fair. I think what KO did at MU is greatly undervalued, probably more because of his personality than anything else. KO saved Marquette from becoming Loyola or Detroit.

The problem with O'Neill is that he tried to give us a shove back in that direction as he left.  He absolutely felt we had already exceeded our ceiling, and said as much in his post departure interviews. 

but he also lost almost that entire team, two transfers and two top recruits by year 2. He totally rebuilt the program, and I think we're in much better shape entering year 5 with Buzz than we were with Crean.

Well, not quite the "entire team." Buzz's 2nd year roster still included 7 holdovers (six who originally signed with Crean and one who verballed before Buzz was named coach). 

And while Buzz deserves credit for filling the holes, we probably would have been in much better shape entering years 2 and 3 if Buzz hadn't lost Mbakwe and Christopherson.   

[slingkong]

Marquette is a catholic school. We had basketball players sexually assault a girl and our former AD, and a few even higher than our AD helped to protect those players. I love Buzz, I love MU basketball, but the school F'ed up, Buzz F'ed up to the point of him deserving to be fired and now we're cleaning up our act. It's plain and it's simple, and if Buzz hadn't been to back to back sweet 16's we wouldn't give a crap that our AD didn't like him. The PROGRAM is bigger than BUZZ Buzz didn't go to a final 4 and win a national championship, Buzz didn't recruit a diamond in the rough who led us to a final four, and was a top 5 talent in the NBA (yet), Buzz didn't do anything to get the Al, or the Jordan sponsorship. The program was here before Buzz it will be here after Buzz.

HFS.  You've completely turned yourself into a caricature.  Unless you were there, you don't know a good goddamned thing about what happened.  So please don't pretend that you know anything about that incident or any other particular incident other than what you read in the printed retardery that passes for newspapers these days.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

LW will be speaking at the Marquette Circles event in New York City tomorrow evening.

[GOO]

HFS.  You've completely turned yourself into a caricature.  Unless you were there, you don't know a good goddamned thing about what happened.  So please don't pretend that you know anything about that incident or any other particular incident other than what you read in the printed retardery that passes for newspapers these days.

jhags, talk about opening yourself up to a lawsuit all for a post on a board.... wow. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

LW will be speaking at the Marquette Circles event in New York City tomorrow evening.

Can you please attend and ask him what the hell is going on with Buzz and admin so we can get some closure on this issue?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Can you please attend and ask him what the hell is going on with Buzz and admin so we can get some closure on this issue?

Shall the question be posed, "Are the rumors of Hiroshima true?  Are you trying to force BW out?"

[Clam Crowder]

jhags, talk about opening yourself up to a lawsuit all for a post on a board.... wow. 

ha? I don't know what the hell you're saying here so I really don't know what else to say. He used the word retardery which is in fact not a word. I never said hey guys I know everything or anything about what happened. I don't speak with any authority. I am a poster on a message board. There's this thing called an ignore button any of you can use...

If the situation became as big as it did with only false accusations I would be shocked. That's all there is to it.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Shall the question be posed, "Are the rumors of Hiroshima true?  Are you trying to force BW out?"

I vote yes.  Worst that can happen is you get escorted out 

[Lennys Tap]

If the situation became as big as it did with only false accusations I would be shocked. That's all there is to it.

Guys on death row (the "situation" doesn't get any bigger than that) are sometimes exonerated by DNA evidence. As regards sexual assault accusations, two of the "bigger" stories in the recent past (Duke lacrosse and Tywana Bradley) proved to be fiction. That you think an accusation and a couple of articles in the Chicago Tribune is tantamount to proof of guilt speaks only to a closed and very simple mind.

[Warriors69]

I will attend and plan to ask him:
about Marquette alternative conference plan,
shouldn't he address his rough edges before fixing Buzz's ( didn't Jesus ask the crownd, he who is without sin, cast the first stone ?),
what is he doing to help Buzz, instead of publically humilating him and the program ? Alabana has over 200 minor violations but don't see the AD running to the press to suspend the football coach.
does he realize his actions hurt the University with donors, alumni, fan base and student applications ?

ANYTHING ELSE I SHOULD ASK ?

[Clam Crowder]

I think it speaks to a mind that doesn't become biased due to affiliations. My thoughts on the situation are X yours are Y, and I am okay with that. I won't insult your intellgence or your mind because we disagree. That's not how I was raised.

[Lennys Tap]

Shall the question be posed, "Are the rumors of Hiroshima true?  Are you trying to force BW out?"

Here are my questions: Recently, sportswriter Jeff Goodman wrote that you and Buzz Williams are less than friends and that he may not be at MU much longer. Any truth whatsoever to the long rumored rift between Buzz and the administration? What exactly is your relationship with Buzz? Do you want and expect him to be here for the foreseeable future? If yes, what are you doing to ensure his committment to MU? If not, what is plan B?

[NersEllenson]

I think it speaks to a mind that doesn't become biased due to affiliations. My thoughts on the situation are X yours are Y, and I am okay with that. I won't insult your intellgence or your mind because we disagree. That's not how I was raised.

So the MPD and Milwaukee DA's office also have bias due to their affiliations with Marquette?  Seems they didn't find enough to file charges.  But I understand there is a decent segment of the population who tends to subscribe to guilty until proven innocent - but usually they give it a rest once the legal system finds no grounds to press charges.  Why are you not able to give it a rest...or retire your "X" thoughts on the situation?

[Clam Crowder]

Well I think it's been well documented that DPS protocol was not followed which impeded the MPD investigation, but yes I will retire my thoughts on the situation.

[Thor]

I will attend and plan to ask him:
about Marquette alternative conference plan,
shouldn't he address his rough edges before fixing Buzz's ( didn't Jesus ask the crownd, he who is without sin, cast the first stone ?),
what is he doing to help Buzz, instead of publically humilating him and the program ? Alabana has over 200 minor violations but don't see the AD running to the press to suspend the football coach.
does he realize his actions hurt the University with donors, alumni, fan base and student applications ?

ANYTHING ELSE I SHOULD ASK ?

Yeah. Ask him if he thinks it is right for a coach to call a team meeting after an alleged assault so that the players can get their stories straight before meeting with police. And is it good to have the players call the girl on the phone at the meeting.

[MUfan12]

Say something stupid. Get called on it. Change screen name.

[Hards Alumni]

Yeah. Ask him if he thinks it is right for a coach to call a team meeting after an alleged assault so that the players can get their stories straight before meeting with police. And is it good to have the players call the girl on the phone at the meeting.

Hearsay.  You weren't there.

[Pakuni]

So the MPD and Milwaukee DA's office also have bias due to their affiliations with Marquette?  Seems they didn't find enough to file charges.  But I understand there is a decent segment of the population who tends to subscribe to guilty until proven innocent - but usually they give it a rest once the legal system finds no grounds to press charges.  Why are you not able to give it a rest...or retire your "X" thoughts on the situation?

All that you say is true, of course, but not the whole truth.
What are your thoughts on the DA's criticism of the coaching staff for holding a meeting with players before they spoke with any investigating agency?
What are your thoughts on the DA's remarks that the criminal investigation was hampered by the manner in which it was reported to police?
What are your thoughts on the university having found multiple players guilty of harassment and, initially, one player guilty of sex assault?
Do you think the administration is justified in taking action when student-athletes are found guilty of sexually harassing fellow students? Or should they just accept that boys will be boys, and that's OK since players at other schools behave badly as well?

I'll say it again ... none of us know what really happened, and those within the administration almost certainly are acting with the benefit of better information than we have here.
So people (on both sides of the debate) here probably are better off to avoid proclaiming guilt or innocence.

On another note, is anyone going to believe LW if he says he has a good working relationship with Buzz and he hopes Buzz is coach for years to come? If not, why bother asking the question?

[Pakuni]

Hearsay.  You weren't there.

That's not hearsay, counselor.

[Clam Crowder]

Say something stupid. Get called on it. Change screen name.

I don't think anything I say is stupid, I happen to agree with most of my own opinions.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

On the train ride back to Connecticut after the MU Circles event.  Notes from the Larry Williams roundtable.
* Larry got there late because his plane was delayed 8 hrs.  Came straight from the airport.
* Expressed his vision for all of Marquette's athletic teams to be elite and successful.  Example of the Top 10 men's and women's soccer teams and the volleyball team.
* Besides obviously basketball, heavily emphasized the importance of the other teams need to be elite in order to remain relavent in the current conference shuffle.
* The Fieldhouse - as part of the elite vision above Marquette is in the early planning stages of a year round fieldhouse.  Not a bubble over Valley Fields. Because of the Milwaukee weather we need it to attract the elite student athletes.
* Marquette has a Plan B if the Big East implodes.  Had imformal discussions with other schools. 
* Reiterated the importance of the new Big East tv deal and what sounds like good negoitiating news is that CBS is also apparently interested besides NBC and Fox and well yes ESPN.
* An alum tried to get a question in on his relationship with Buzz.  Time was running out and the guy already asked a question so they sort of skipped over him to allow someone else to ask a question.
* Steve Rushin was a goosd host.  Had a good W Bush story.  The former president calls him calls Mr. Sports Illustrated.   

[real chili 83]

Thanks for the recap.

Was it more of a presentation or a q&a session?

Was the guy who asked the buzz/LW question ignored on purpose, or was it appropriate for lw to not answer his question.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Thanks for the recap.

Was it more of a presentation or a q&a session?

Was the guy who asked the buzz/LW question ignored on purpose, or was it appropriate for lw to not answer his question.

It was supposed to be a interview with Larry Williams hosted by Steve Rushin.  That kind of went out the window with Larry's plane delay.  Steve spent 15-20 minutes telling stories about SI, living in Connecticut and being married to local celebrity Rebecca Lobo, meeting President's Clinton, Bush & Obama, Keith Richards, and visiting the world's most northern golf course.  Larry arrived direct from Newark airport and then Steve had a truncated 2 or 3 interview questions followed by a rushed Q&A.

On the Buzz question, it felt like a combo of both.  A bunch of people had their hands up for questions and the alum kind of just blurted out the question and Larry politely said time was short and he wanted to give someone else a chance to ask a question as the alum did ask a question earlier.  People hunched over the table anticipating an answer.