MU, UW lead for Diamond Stone

[jmayer1]

I know you're high on Gardner, but Gardner's ValueAdd is projected to be 4.87 this year, and 5.54 in 2014.  That's very good, but a lot closer to Otto Porter's frosh neighborhood (6.08) than Davis' (12.35).

And as of now Stone's HS rank is a lot closer to where Davis wound up (#1 RSCI) than Porter (#34).
   

What part of comparing Gardner's CAREER to Stone's freshman season did you not understand?

[Ellenson Guerrero]

It is also important to distinguish between the difficulty associated with taking a 2-3 star guard/forward to the NBA....who are a dime a dozen...as opposed to sending the scarce 6'10"+ 5 star center to the NBA.

There are thousands of college players with measurables similar to Jae, Jimmy, Lazar, Wes, DJO - how many college players have measurables similar to an Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Mutomobo, Mourning, Ewing...lets not forget guys like Joel Pryzbilla were NBA lottery picks.  Jimmy Mac made $35M...they simply don't grow on trees....lot easier to get guys like that in the league than the Jimmy's, Jae's, Zar's, Wes's, and DJO's of the world.

I get your point, but I think mine still holds. Yes, it is easier to get 6'10 centers into the association than it is to get 6'2 guards there. I have no doubt that Buzz would be able to develop Stone into a lottery pick. But I also don't really doubt that Rob Jeter could do the same at UWM. This goes back to your point that its just not that hard to do if you have an athletic, true center.

But if you are Stone, why take any risk at all? You only get one shot at this whole thing, so why be the guinea pig at a school with almost no history of quality big men? Yes, you may think you are a can't-miss prospect, but something big has to be there to sway you if you think that there is any doubt at all about MU's style of offense or ability to develop bigs. What is our pitch going to be after JT3 comes in with a video comparing Stone to Ewing, Mourning, Monroe, Hibbert and Mutumbo? Come to MU, you can play with your friend Duane and your parents can sit in the front row every game? That may be good enough, but from the sound of it, he seems to want a little more focus on an interior offense and receiving the coaching he needs to be a great center. I don't blame him for it, and I agree that if Gardner can start averaging 16 and 8, we might look a bit more appealing.

[LAZER]

I'd imagine playing time will be a huge factor in his decision and trying to figure out what the picture will be in 2 years is pointless.

The key for MU is winning and winning big.  Having him exposed to that with his buddies on the team will make it very appealing for him to play at MU.

[bilsu]

I don't really share the optimism gleaned from this article. Yes, its great he's mentioning the local schools at the top, but he's only a Soph and the real competition hasn't even started yet. The scary part of the article is that it mentions his interest in finding a low post-centric offense, a quality that MU in no way possesses. If we get him its because of some combination of Duane's influence, wanting to stay home, and Buzz's work ethic. I think its far more likely he ends up deciding to go somewhere like GTown or Kentucky; a school with a proven track record of placing big men in the lottery.

That was my first thought. However, he will be watching Gardner play two more years at MU and Gardner consistantly gets the ball in the low post. I think the bigger part of the equation is who Wisconsin and MU have at center to compete with him for playing time. Right now the center spot is open on both rosters for 2015.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

We know Buzz is pretty straight with his guys.

The pitch will be:

"I will bust your balls and get the most out of you everyday. If you work your ass off, you will have success as a player and as a person." (or something similar).

Everything else is window dressing. If Diamond really believes that Buzz will get the most out of him, and he's comfortable taking on that challenge (some guys aren't), he'll go to MU.

Georgetown can sell skill development, UK can sell recent NBA draftees, UW can sell, well, I don't know what they can sell.

Buzz can sell maximizing talent. His approach isn't for everybody.

[The Process]

Georgetown can sell skill development, UK can sell recent NBA draftees, UW can sell, well, I don't know what they can sell.

Flopping.

[Litehouse]

UW can sell the Stiemsma plan.  Be a highly ranked big man recruit from WI, and then get completely under-utilized in the swing so you have to spend a couple years riding busses in the D-league to unlearn everything Bo taught you and develop the necessary skills to contribute at the next level.

[Lennys Tap]

Buzz can sell maximizing talent. His approach isn't for everybody.

This is the key. Wes was a longshot coming out of high school to make the NBA (150-1?) Lazar was probably 500-1, DJO 1000-1 and Jimmy and Jae were (oddswise) in Jim Carrey Dumb and Dumberland. NOBODY can match that over the last four years. Stack that up against "developing" an Anthony Davis or a Patrick Ewing and I like our chances. The problem is that MU isn't Kentucky or even Georgetown as a "program", so Buzz will be (as always with any bluechip) fighting an uphill battle.

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

Well, if he wants to go to a somewhere he can post up.  He should look at how Butch and Steimsma were used    Before he ever considers UW.  He will be wasted on the perimeter at UW in the Swing.(at least 50% of the time)  Then take a look at how Gardner will be used by Buzz next couple of years and how he was used last year. 

[Gato78]

I thought this was called the Brian Butch plan, though it may later be renamed the Evan Anderson rule-not sure.

UW can sell the Stiemsma plan.  Be a highly ranked big man recruit from WI, and then get completely under-utilized in the swing so you have to spend a couple years riding busses in the D-league to unlearn everything Bo taught you and develop the necessary skills to contribute at the next level.

[GGGG]

UW can sell the Stiemsma plan.  Be a highly ranked big man recruit from WI, and then get completely under-utilized in the swing so you have to spend a couple years riding busses in the D-league to unlearn everything Bo taught you and develop the necessary skills to contribute at the next level.

My UW basketball friend is livid when he watches the Celtics now, and remarks constantly how he misused Steimsma.  He looks more like the type player he did in high school now with the Celtics than he ever did at UW.  

Now he also argues that Butch was not the same player and was used just fine given a somewhat limited skill set.  

[NersEllenson]

I get your point, but I think mine still holds. Yes, it is easier to get 6'10 centers into the association than it is to get 6'2 guards there. I have no doubt that Buzz would be able to develop Stone into a lottery pick. But I also don't really doubt that Rob Jeter could do the same at UWM. This goes back to your point that its just not that hard to do if you have an athletic, true center.

But if you are Stone, why take any risk at all? You only get one shot at this whole thing, so why be the guinea pig at a school with almost no history of quality big men? Yes, you may think you are a can't-miss prospect, but something big has to be there to sway you if you think that there is any doubt at all about MU's style of offense or ability to develop bigs. What is our pitch going to be after JT3 comes in with a video comparing Stone to Ewing, Mourning, Monroe, Hibbert and Mutumbo? Come to MU, you can play with your friend Duane and your parents can sit in the front row every game? That may be good enough, but from the sound of it, he seems to want a little more focus on an interior offense and receiving the coaching he needs to be a great center. I don't blame him for it, and I agree that if Gardner can start averaging 16 and 8, we might look a bit more appealing.

Definitely a fair point as well.  I sure hope Davante can stay healthy this year.  I can see MU playing through DG a lot, and him almost becoming a focal point of the offensive scheme - with a lot of cutters through the lane, feed post, relocate off of a double down on DG, spot up for open 3.  Think it is entirely possible for DG to average 16 and 8 if his conditioning allows him to play 25-27 minutes per game.  That happens and Buzz has a good example to point to with regard to a developing big in his program...and one who came in as a 3 star...at 295lbs.

[brewcity77]

If we can get Embiid, that could help us as well, especially if he came in and had a stellar freshman season. With possible on-and-done talk popping up for him, it might help us with Stone as he won't really be pressured to announce his decision for another 2 years, by which time Embiid could either have established himself as a solid player here or (unlikely, but possibly) blown up as a one-and-done big.

[Litehouse]

My UW basketball friend is livid when he watches the Celtics now, and remarks constantly how he misused Steimsma.  He looks more like the type player he did in high school now with the Celtics than he ever did at UW.  

Now he also argues that Butch was not the same player and was used just fine given a somewhat limited skill set.  

Butch may have been worse.  He was skinny and athletic in HS and moved really well.  Then he bulked up (in a bad way) in college, lost his mobility, and turned into a 3-point shooting novelty.

[MerrittsMustache]

My UW basketball friend is livid when he watches the Celtics now, and remarks constantly how he misused Steimsma.  He looks more like the type player he did in high school now with the Celtics than he ever did at UW.  

Now he also argues that Butch was not the same player and was used just fine given a somewhat limited skill set.  

What are the worst college stats for a player who made it to the NBA? Steimsma's got to be up there, right?

[The Equalizer]

What part of comparing Gardner's CAREER to Stone's freshman season did you not understand?

Seemed pretty clear to me.  With the projected improvement over the next two years---over his entire 4-year CAREER--Gardner's ValueAdd will peak at 5.54. 

Any frosh who can come in at 5.55 or better in his first season will have surpassed him.

My point is that it won't take a performance like Anthony Davis.  Otto Porter's 6.08 Value Add would be enough. 

Clear enough for you?

[🏀]

Seemed pretty clear to me.  With the projected improvement over the next two years---over his entire 4-year CAREER--Gardner's ValueAdd will peak at 5.54.  

Any frosh who can come in at 5.55 or better in his first season will have surpassed him.

My point is that it won't take a performance like Anthony Davis.  Otto Porter's 6.08 Value Add would be enough.  

Clear enough for you?

Yeah, I think that's pretty clear.

Gardner's a nice player, but he's no Neon Boudeaux. Stone is a Neon Boudeaux.

If you're thinking Neon Boudeaux...wtf...?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Neon+Boudeaux

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Butch may have been worse.  He was skinny and athletic in HS and moved really well.  Then he bulked up (in a bad way) in college, lost his mobility, and turned into a 3-point shooting novelty.

A mcdonalds Mike Kinsella.

[jmayer1]

Seemed pretty clear to me.  With the projected improvement over the next two years---over his entire 4-year CAREER--Gardner's ValueAdd will peak at 5.54. 

Any frosh who can come in at 5.55 or better in his first season will have surpassed him.

My point is that it won't take a performance like Anthony Davis.  Otto Porter's 6.08 Value Add would be enough. 

Clear enough for you?

Yes, it's clear you either can't comprehend or can't do basic addition. Yes, it wouldn't take a Davis-like season to eclipse Gardner's senior season (projected), but it would take a Davis-like season to eclipse Gardner's career (projected). Not sure if you didn't understand the pont, but you are not taking into account the total value add from Gardner's 1st 3 seasons for some reason.

[bilsu]

These players success at MU were significantly limited by injuries:
Fulce
Kinsella
Otule
Luter


Is there anyone else someone can think of?

Also Diener, McNeal and James had season ending injuries.

[mugrad99]

These players success at MU were significantly limited by injuries:
Fulce
Kinsella
Otule
Luter


Is there anyone else someone can think of?

Also Diener, McNeal and James had season ending injuries.

Does Anthony Candelino falling from the balcony at the Old Gym count?  He wasn't the same after that....Rumor was he was pushed by Nethen

[🏀]

These players success at MU were significantly limited by injuries:
Fulce
Kinsella
Otule
Luter


Is there anyone else someone can think of?

Also Diener, McNeal and James had season ending injuries.

Jamil Lott.

[The Equalizer]

Yes, it's clear you either can't comprehend or can't do basic addition. Yes, it wouldn't take a Davis-like season to eclipse Gardner's senior season (projected), but it would take a Davis-like season to eclipse Gardner's career (projected). Not sure if you didn't understand the pont, but you are not taking into account the total value add from Gardner's 1st 3 seasons for some reason.

Under this theory Trevor Powell had a bigger impact at MU over his career than Dwyane Wade.

[reinko]

Under this theory Trevor Powell had a bigger impact at MU over his career than Dwayne Wade.

Dwayne Wade never played for Marquette.

[wadesworld]

Dwayne Wade never played for Marquette.

+1. If there was any question whether TheEquilizer was a troll it is now answered.