Stewardship of Valuable Resources....

[GGGG]

Marquette does what many privates do.  Mark it up real high, and offer discounts (labelled as "scholarships") based on those who they want to attend.  "You can pay $25,000...but *you* have to pay $32,000."  Of course this is all done because they have figured out ways to maximize what students, and their parents, are willing to borrow through federal financial aid programs.  Believe me, one of my good friends works as a consultant to private colleges on how to set up and maintain these programs, how to manage scholarships, etc.

Marquette is no different than any other private school of its stature in that regard.  And I have mentioned this before, but my son who is attending Butler, wanted to come to MU originally.  But they didn't offer his major, and their scholarship offer was well under Butler's.   So that's where he went.

[Bocephys]

Marquette does what many privates do.  Mark it up real high, and offer discounts (labelled as "scholarships") based on those who they want to attend.  "You can pay $25,000...but *you* have to pay $32,000."  Of course this is all done because they have figured out ways to maximize what students, and their parents, are willing to borrow through federal financial aid programs.  Believe me, one of my good friends works as a consultant to private colleges on how to set up and maintain these programs, how to manage scholarships, etc.

Marquette is no different than any other private school of its stature in that regard.  And I have mentioned this before, but my son who is attending Butler, wanted to come to MU originally.  But they didn't offer his major, and their scholarship offer was well under Butler's.   So that's where he went.

NPR's Planet Money did a whole podcast on this practice a few months ago.  It was a very interesting listen.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Have you priced a Marquette education lately? Terms like "can't afford to price itself out of the market" and "reasonable" are so, well, nonsense with Marquette that it defies description.

Marquette is $43,000 a year now. That's right..... $43,000. I'm old enough to remember tuition and ancillary that was less than half that for four years. That's right, an undergraduate degree for less than half of one year's tuition. Even adjusting for inflation since the 1970s, Marquette's costs have risen between 2x and 3x the cost of living in the period.

If my children wanted a Marquette education and Marquette wanted my children, I doubt we could come close to affording it without massive financial assistance that I candidly doubt would be available.

I agree, but it's not like this is unique to MU. Tuition rates for all universities have been outpacing inflation for a while.

The problem for private schools is that they don't have the "in-state" discounts that work for public schools and make them attainable.

[Goose]

General economy is working against crazy tuition's. Grandma and Grandpa's are shelling out less and borrowing against house is too risky. Private school's need to be more creative in today's economy and throwing out a couple grand scholarship a semester is not creative. I always hoped my kids wanted to go to MU and selfishly the last few years I was hoping UW was there choice. Just like everywhere MU needs to cut costs and to it without going backwards with facilities or staff.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

General economy is working against crazy tuition's. Grandma and Grandpa's are shelling out less and borrowing against house is too risky. Private school's need to be more creative in today's economy and throwing out a couple grand scholarship a semester is not creative. I always hoped my kids wanted to go to MU and selfishly the last few years I was hoping UW was there choice. Just like everywhere MU needs to cut costs and to it without going backwards with facilities or staff.

Bingo. If they can flatten out the tuition costs for the next handful of years, build up some endowment and donations, they should be in good shape (its a lot to ask, I know).

If they simply keep jacking up tuition, sadly, a lot of alumni aren't going to be able to send their kids there (myself included).

[mu03eng]

Bingo. If they can flatten out the tuition costs for the next handful of years, build up some endowment and donations, they should be in good shape (its a lot to ask, I know).

If they simply keep jacking up tuition, sadly, a lot of alumni aren't going to be able to send their kids there (myself included).

Which is why I'm cautiously optimistic about the stewardship theme.  The university might finally be ready to look at it's internal cost and find ways to drive that down which will limit or eliminate the need to increase tuition.

[GGGG]

Here's the problem that colleges face - the vast majority of their costs are personnel related...about 75% at most places.  That makes it very hard to control costs year-to-year.  That means no raises and no benefit increases.  Extremely unlikely.  Of course there are other options...including cutting positions or cutting back elsewhere.  But that is difficult unless you want to put more kids into classrooms or give them less services.

The other issue is that Marquette really doesn't have a lot of incentive to do this with demand being what it is.

[warriorchick]

Which is why I'm cautiously optimistic about the stewardship theme.  The university might finally be ready to look at it's internal cost and find ways to drive that down which will limit or eliminate the need to increase tuition.

I am a huge fan of Marquette education, but as a parent of two Marquette students, I do hope that this "stewardship" initiative is taken seriously.  I can't help but notice that while the enrollment at Marquette has stayed relatively stable in the last 30 years,the amount of resources devoted to "administration" seems to have exploded.

For example, when I went to Marquette, they had no resources off-campus housing.  Now, I recently discovered, they have both an Associate Dean and an Assistant Dean for off-campus housing services. The only administrative space Marquette has lost since the '80's is the (relatively small) 1212 building. In the meantime, they have added Alumni Memorial Union (which is really only about 1/2 student space, with the rest being offices and meeting rooms), several classroom buildings that have a significant amount office space, and Zilber Hall, which is an entire city block long and a half-block wide. It's a bit much.

[Lennys Tap]

Another thing, I don't know about everyone else, but I do feel like I get a lot of tell us how you feel type stuff from MU and very little seems to either happen or they go in what seems to be a per-conceived direction.  I think they need to be conscious of this and really work to make sure the feedback and the actions are aligned or you are going to people even more turned off.

I went to a Jesuit high school, college and grad school. One thing they were very good at was asking for feedback. Unfortunately, my experience has been that feedback that doesn't match a predetermined course of action is ignored.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Here's the problem that colleges face - the vast majority of their costs are personnel related...about 75% at most places.  That makes it very hard to control costs year-to-year.  That means no raises and no benefit increases.  Extremely unlikely.  Of course there are other options...including cutting positions or cutting back elsewhere.  But that is difficult unless you want to put more kids into classrooms or give them less services.

The other issue is that Marquette really doesn't have a lot of incentive to do this with demand being what it is.

These are all valid points, and if the free market will accommodate 50K per year, then MU should charge that.

However, when you keep moving the price up, and keep the quality relatively the same... you are playing a dangerous game. At some point people are going to say "no thanks" and MU doesn't want to be left scrambling to fill up it's frosh. class and/or rapidly dropping the price.

Always a balancing act.

Plus, (and I have not idea how to calculate this), if you keep jacking up the price you will eventually alienate alumni who can't afford to send their kids there. You aren't just going to effect enrollment rates, but donation rates as well. I love MU, but I'm not as inclined to donate to a school that prices my family and children out of the market.

I'm sure they know all of this, and if they are smart, they are already planning for it.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I am a huge fan of Marquette education, but as a parent of two Marquette students, I do hope that this "stewardship" initiative is taken seriously.  I can't help but notice that while the enrollment at Marquette has stayed relatively stable in the last 30 years,the amount of resources devoted to "administration" seems to have exploded.

For example, when I went to Marquette, they had no resources off-campus housing.  Now, I recently discovered, they have both an Associate Dean and an Assistant Dean for off-campus housing services. The only administrative space Marquette has lost since the '80's is the (relatively small) 1212 building. In the meantime, they have added Alumni Memorial Union (which is really only about 1/2 student space, with the rest being offices and meeting rooms), several classroom buildings that have a significant amount office space, and Zilber Hall, which is an entire city block long and a half-block wide. It's a bit much.

I could be wrong, but didn't enrollment take a dip in the 90's?

But, your overall sentiment is well taken. MU has been doing well the past 15 years. That's great. Might be time to tighten everything up because the next 15 years might not be as nice. Competition is tough and $ is tight.

[real chili 83]

Warrior Chick may be on to something in her post.  Match revenues to expenses. 
Expenses should be linear to revenue growth.  Sock a few schekels away for capital expenditures....feed future growth.

What I worry about.....we all see how much the athletic department spends.  We also see the ROI it gives.  Cash flow is king.   I hope Fr. P and co. trim in other areas that don't have acceptable cash flow. 

[GGGG]

Of the personnel costs that I mentioned above, administrative is generally very small.  Faculty costs are usually the highest.  No offense guys, but Marquette charges this because they can.  I mean, we have two parents on this thread complaining about their costs....but still pay for their kids to attend. 

There are plenty of places to get a high quality education in this country, but your families are choosing MU.  And you are not alone. 

[77ncaachamps]

Funny, for me, Harvard = Money.

As for this topic, I think basketball is what keeps alumni, particularly those outside WI/IL, attached to the university.  I loved Warriors basketball while I was at MU, but it was only a small part of the great 4 years I had there (basketball wouldn't figure in my favorite 20 memories of college).  Basketball now is my way of keeping in touch with the school and those who also love it.  Wouldn't call it the soul of the school, though.

You got it. And it's a huge selling point for me when talking to CA kids.

If I wanted a Jesuit education with a low-profile athletic program, I would have enrolled at Seattle or Wheeling Jesuit.

Basketball was a major reason why I went to Marquette. School spirit matters.

[Dawson Rental]

Of the personnel costs that I mentioned above, administrative is generally very small.  Faculty costs are usually the highest.  No offense guys, but Marquette charges this because they can.  I mean, we have two parents on this thread complaining about their costs....but still pay for their kids to attend. 

There are plenty of places to get a high quality education in this country, but your families are choosing MU.  And you are not alone. 

For sometime I have wondered what kind of relationship would be shown by a study that tracked increases in federal support for student aid and increases in student tuition......

[Benny B]

For sometime I have wondered what kind of relationship would be shown by a study that tracked increases in federal support for student aid and increases in student tuition......

Linear, rising at nearly a 45 degree angle would be my guess.

[GGGG]

Yep.  Not sure what you can do about that now though.

[Goose]

77champs


Hate to say that my 19y son's biggest interest in going to MU was the basketball program. He would never admit to my wife that was reason but in reality he picked MU over other schools because he has lived MU ball for 19 years. That being big part of decision did not bother me because the other schools in contention were comp cost and academic reputation. If he picked MU over Harvard because of program I would have been pissed.

[dgies9156]

OK, here's the problem with Marquette. One of the opening posts compared Marquette to other schools, like Notre Dame, Harvard etc. All are great schools. In my case, I'd be tickled if one of my children wanted to go to MU, could do MU work and came home four years later with an MU degree.

But here's the real world. A degree from Notre Dame, Harvard, Yale, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Northwestern and Stanford command respect and attention throughout the United States. Look at who recruits and hires from these schools! Marquette isn't in this league.

Marquette's a great school, no doubt. But on a value basis, if my choice for a liberal arts degree is Marquette at $43,000 or the University of Illinois in the mid-$20,000 range, guess where I'm pointing my child! In Journalism, for example, you come out of Marquette with a BA, no job or, in best circumstances, a job that pays $30,000 a year and you have $100,000 plus of debt. The exception is the students who get federal or university aid because some program wants them.

I can't see saddling a child with an enormous amount of debt they can't repay -- especially if they go into liberal arts. Nor can I see risking my retirement for the Marquette name alone.

It's a tough choice for many parents, I know.

At the core though, I think the early posters are right -- as long as enrollment is up and someone is willing to pay it, tuition will continue to rise exponentially. That's the free market.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The private vs. public cost debate has to be balanced. Private schools like Marquette provide individual attention and can get a kid graduated in 3.5 years while a state school can take 5 to 6.  Very common. Also, internships are a big part of what students are looking for today and MU has many opportunities available with their urban (Milwaukee to Chicago) corridor)

Look at the big money at MU- mostly law and engineering alums.  It has a niche including the medical technical fields but the university needs to transform itself elsewhere.  Stanford is putting a big bet on virtual classrooms opening up enrollment beyond a physical classroom, giving the world access to professors' lectures.  Similarly, schools like Tufts via eBay funding have opened their students up to wide international experiences.

Students today are looking for experiential opportunities, more technical/specialized, varied and customized, and with connected communities (including dorm infrastructure).  They grew up living and learning very differently than the committee designing this strategic plan.

[GGGG]

The private vs. public cost debate has to be balanced. Private schools like Marquette provide individual attention and can get a kid graduated in 3.5 years while a state school can take 5 to 6.

Unless it is for a program that requires extra credits, almost every kid that goes to a public university can graduate in 4 years.  The kids that don't generally are those that switch majors, take extra classes, or simply take extra time.  The lower cost allows them to do this.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Unless it is for a program that requires extra credits, almost every kid that goes to a public university can graduate in 4 years.  The kids that don't generally are those that switch majors, take extra classes, or simply take extra time.  The lower cost allows them to do this.

Look at U of Illinois.  You basically need a 32 ACT to get into the school of your choice as they are taking so many more profitable out of state students. So, yeah, if I have a 25-30 I can major in General Studies and graduate in four years, but what I really wanted to study was Business so my plan is to transfer in.  Or I am in Nutrition but I cannot get space in a clinical.  Lots of History majors running around unemployed.

So my choices are a lesser esteemed Illinois Directional School or a Marquette.  In California, there has been so many cuts in state schools, the private colleges are overflowing.  This middle of the road is MU's wheelhouse.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

OK, here's the problem with Marquette. One of the opening posts compared Marquette to other schools, like Notre Dame, Harvard etc. All are great schools. In my case, I'd be tickled if one of my children wanted to go to MU, could do MU work and came home four years later with an MU degree.

But here's the real world. A degree from Notre Dame, Harvard, Yale, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, Northwestern and Stanford command respect and attention throughout the United States. Look at who recruits and hires from these schools! Marquette isn't in this league.

Marquette's a great school, no doubt. But on a value basis, if my choice for a liberal arts degree is Marquette at $43,000 or the University of Illinois in the mid-$20,000 range, guess where I'm pointing my child! In Journalism, for example, you come out of Marquette with a BA, no job or, in best circumstances, a job that pays $30,000 a year and you have $100,000 plus of debt. The exception is the students who get federal or university aid because some program wants them.

I can't see saddling a child with an enormous amount of debt they can't repay -- especially if they go into liberal arts. Nor can I see risking my retirement for the Marquette name alone.

It's a tough choice for many parents, I know.

At the core though, I think the early posters are right -- as long as enrollment is up and someone is willing to pay it, tuition will continue to rise exponentially. That's the free market.

You are correct, but that's not a bad thing. MU isn't a Cadillac. MU isn't a KIA. It's somewhere in the middle, and offers features that some consumers want.

I like the urban environment, size of the student body, D1 sports, etc. etc.

MU has value... but continual tuition increases might outprice MU's value, and then they will have a problem.

Not there yet, but they need to be planning and have a vision for where they are headed. They can't keep putting up new buildings and jacking up tuition every single year. That bubble will burst at some point. That really goes for every college, not just MU.

[mu_hilltopper]

Regardless of whether MU bumps their list price then folks get a discounted price .. the cost of tuition, room, and board are outpacing inflation, but more importantly, outpacing both parental income, and expected graduate income. 

There's a universe of people who can afford MU's tuition.  That universe gets smaller each year.  Projected out a few decades, and that universe drops to near zero.

In 10 years, MU will cost $68k.  20 years, $111k.  PER YEAR!

Sorry, personal income inflation will no where near catch up to that.   It is simply unfathomable that MU will exist in 30-40-50 years.

If MU, and all private schools for that matter, want to survive in the long term .. they need to bend the cost curve IMMEDIATELY. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Regardless of whether MU bumps their list price then folks get a discounted price .. the cost of tuition, room, and board are outpacing inflation, but more importantly, outpacing both parental income, and expected graduate income. 

There's a universe of people who can afford MU's tuition.  That universe gets smaller each year.  Projected out a few decades, and that universe drops to near zero.

In 10 years, MU will cost $68k.  20 years, $111k.  PER YEAR!

Sorry, personal income inflation will no where near catch up to that.   It is simply unfathomable that MU will exist in 30-40-50 years.

If MU, and all private schools for that matter, want to survive in the long term .. they need to bend the cost curve IMMEDIATELY. 

I think most/all colleges are facing this reality.

The cost of secondary education is eventually going to outpace it's value.

A good tradesman won't have the acquired debt and will begin producing decent income immediately (post high school) vs a college grad who is 100K in debt and won't make any significant income until they are 22.

A college degree will likely still make you more income over a lifetime, but it's far closer now than it used to be, and if rates continue to rise, the tradition 4 year degree might not be the best bet anymore.